6 teams

[Nacho]

Let's say HF is right and nothing really happens. Old saying: If nothing changes, nothing changes.

We are still left with a 10 team WAC going from La to Hawaii. It is unworkable. We have to expand to have any hope at survival in the WAC. Expenses are killing us.

Who really wants to be in the WAC? TCU and Houston don't? Never have and never will. They would only come in if all else failed. UNT and NMSU would come in in a heartbeat and be as happy as could be about it. Put UNT in the east and NMSU in the west. A few crossover games. Essentilly have 2, 6 team conferences. Play as many big name schools (money) as possible.

[EastStang]

If no such changes take place, then I would agree with you that UNT and NMSU are the best looking ugly girls available. I'll need a lot of beer though to make that one look attractive. It still does not solve the lack of an Eastern Bowl tie-in. We won't get the NO Bowl, the SBC owns it (unless the SBC can't send a bowl eligible team). Although if we do that and the PAC 10 expands to Utah, we might have committed ourselves to some dogs if AFA, UNLV or SDS became available (UNLV and SDS are in bowl cities).

[Nacho]

Pac 10 is not going to take Utah. Not now, not ever. Some changes may occur in the distant future but we are bleeding money now. We have to accept our fate and make the best of it. We act like we are going to be in the Big 12 or SEC next year. We all need to wake up and make the WAC our home and make it the best it can be.

[Southland]

First off, the WAC is going to lose San Jose next summer. They are still below 11,000 in attendance, and really have no hope of exceeding the 15,000 limit in '03. That puts the WAC at 9-schools for '04. There are no revenue generators left, and I doubt the WAC is going to add 3 mouths to feed.

Second, North Texas would never get the votes... even if SMU supported the decision.

The WAC schools are not going to expand with a school that is in danger of losing Division 1A status. UNT averaged less than 15,300 last year in an 8-5 bowl season, and they struggle to put 5 home games on the schedule.

If you need to expand, Utah State would be a stronger candidate...
1. no attendance problem
2. built in home-and-homes with Utah and BYU guarantee 5 home games/year
3. they have consistently made the post season in basketball (KU's closest game until the Syracuse loss was to USU)
4. They are a travel partner for Boise, NMST would be the travel partner for UTEP.


Regardless, it is a mute point, because the WAC is not going to expand unless it is with a revenue generator; not another mouth to feed.

[MeanGreenGem]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Southland:
[B]First off, the WAC is going to lose San Jose next summer. They are still below 11,000 in attendance, and really have no hope of exceeding the 15,000 limit in '03. That puts the WAC at 9-schools for '04. There are no revenue generators left, and I doubt the WAC is going to add 3 mouths to feed.

<>*<> OK, you put the worm out and I am going to bite:

UNT has had an average over the last 2 years of 15K (once again) with real BIS sitting in with most bought on Game Day, and that with 0 & 5 starts the last 2 years. How would SMU recoop at the gate with 0 & 5 starts 2 years in a row?

<>*<> UNT has 31,000 sold season tickets as each enrolled UNT student buys a student season ticket thru their student service fees. No, all our student "season ticket" holders don't show up on Game Day just like SMU's do not, but UNT still reports actual bodies in the stadium in their attendance count and have for a few years now.

Second, North Texas would never get the votes... even if SMU supported the decision.

<>*<> I am most assured and especially now that UNT would not get all the votes because not everyone in the WAC even wants to be associated with every one in the WAC. Why a focus on a school in a very "non WAC'ish" location like UNT? AND...why would UNT want to join such an unhappy conference family where so many of its members are trying to run away from home?

<>*<> UT's Mack Brown and Arizona's John Mackovic might tell some of your WAC friends that there may only be about 2 schools in the WAC who could even stay on the football field with UNT's 2003 Consensus All American Booger Kennedy & Company. That would probably cost us a few WAC votes, too, ya' think?

The WAC schools are not going to expand with a school that is in danger of losing Division 1A status. UNT averaged less than 15,300 last year in an 8-5 bowl season, and they struggle to put 5 home games on the schedule.

<>*<> Wrong again, you must be talking about your grandfather's NTSU or something. UNT's Chancellor (an SMU graduate), President and Board of Regents have unanimously vowed that all will be done for UNT to not only stay in NCAA D1-A but to be a player at that level as well and I guess a reason they are putting all their reputations on the line in planning a series of new athletic facilites (including a new football stadium) on UNT's former 160 acre golf course near the Radisson Hotel complex that sets between I35-E and I35-W (sounds pretty convenient to drive to from D-FW now doesn't it)?

<>*<> UNT will have no more struggle in the SBC than SMU is in the WAC and we have 5 built-in D1-A home games with recent new members added to the Sun Belt Conference .

<>*<> Also, doesn't hurt that we are (most timely) now winning, too, and the SBC football champ gets to go to a pretty fair nationally televised bowl where the Nielsen ratings have been more than good PLUS a bowl game located in a pretty neat bowl destination city. We took anywhere from 16-19,000 to that bowl game last year, depending on who you talk to. (I didn't even get to go myself).

<>*<> For 2 years in a row at the NO's Bowl, UNT has had a 3 hour type "info-mercial" on ESPN II with 1 win and 1 loss in those 2 bowl games. A nationally televised game on ESPN for a 2003 regular season UNT game is already on their TV football game schedule.

<>*<> UNT (once again) reports real attendance figures and we all know other programs count sold tickets with "no shows" among their total attendance count that they report in the Sunday AM sports page boxscores. The NCAA beginning next year (2004) says schools will have to count their attendance just like UNT has already started the practice of doing the last 3 years.

If you need to expand, Utah State would be a stronger candidate...
1. no attendance problem
2. built in home-and-homes with Utah and BYU guarantee 5 home games/year
3. they have consistently made the post season in basketball (KU's closest game until the Syracuse loss was to USU)
4. They are a travel partner for Boise, NMST would be the travel partner for UTEP.

<>*<> I agree, Utah State would be a fine addition to any western USA located conference. We are proud to have them in the Sun Belt Conference even now.

Regardless, it is a mute point, because the WAC is not going to expand unless it is with a revenue generator; not another mouth to feed.

<>*<> Seems like some in the WAC feed off each other as you talk about mouths to feed? What is also a mute point is that no one on these message boards are going to decide anything in conference re-alignments.

UNT welcomes its Dallas/SMU neighbors to visit us at GoMeanGreen.com any time/we are fairly nice, accomodating and decent people over there.

GMG!

[Nacho]

I might add that SJSU will not be thrown out because of attendance issues. If a conference as a whole meets the NCAA minimums then a particlar school cannot be thrown out becuse its attendance did not meet minimum standards. Some schools are in trouble--most of the MAC and possibly some in the the SBC--over this issue but SJSU is not.