New South Western Conference

[FloridaMustang]

LoL.

[MeanGreenGem]

Perhaps yours and a hardy handful from SMU's attitudes a reason some not just begging your school on the Hilltop to jump in bed with them in most any serious conference re-alignment talk that comes from most other boards I've read? You can start with such threads as the "Say No To SMU" thread on TCU's Frog Fan Forum? According to your research, probably the only schools SMU should be in a league with are the very ones you won't or can't be in and that with some other BCS league.

Because of some of the attitudes on the Hilltop (not all BTW and I find some SMU posters to be a breath of fresh air); nevertheless, a few of your fellow alums are now calling your long time SWC "bosom buddy" TCU "Frog High" because many of the Horned Frog-types say they no longer want to be associated with SMU in any league configuration.

Funny how there seems to be a whole lot of "my daddy is better than your daddy" banter on some of these boards; and that usually coming from the schools who have been kicked around and kicked out of the BCS for whatever reason.

What are the criteria for the PV's rating system because some of these rating systems have some that include (among others) "percentage of alums who give to their alma mater" or criteria that only a small enrollment private school or state flagship schools with special percs (like UT and TAMU's Permanent University Fund reservoir of funds) could meet more successfully than others. Just curious?

Princeton Review officials have probably never even been to UNT's Murchison Performance Center for a concert with what some unbiased critics say are quite an assundry of "world class musicians" on the UNT campus. What do they say about UNT's high ranked Acctg Dept within its College of Business?

The Princeton Review people probably think SMU is still in the SWC. Wonder if they have even checked or alterred their rankings on these same schools from 20 years ago? (Some still rank on perception as they have never even probably visited half of these campuses).

US News & World Report will raise your classification if you send half of your administration up north to their headquarters, spend a well planned social hour with them buying them free food and drinks!

Ask some of the Texas Tech faithful about that experince they had a few years ago and then had a sudden surprise new increased ranking that they were not getting previously from that same rag. The Dallas Morning News reported all this in an article a couple years ago. They were not looking at such college rating services in a very positive light, either, by the way.

USN's&WR's system of classifying schools is mostly a joke according to the University of Texas (Austin) President and he making that quote in that same article in the Dallas Morning News. He said some of the classification criteria were quite strange he thought and were (in fact) still largely based on perception.

If you look around hard enough, you can find any of these services that will serve your school's needs (and give you some nice quotes about your school). The Carnegie Foundation is one such group and sees UNT as am emerging public research university best to my recollection. I wish those who did the rankings would spend a couple days on some school's campuses to get a clearer picture of a school's mission and its clientele.

Anything else nice you want to say about UNT, SoCalPony, to serve whatever your own (obvious) personal agenda is on this matter? Something has evidently gotten your undivided attention concerning UNT for you to spend even a minute of what I'm sure is your precious valuable time to find reseach that serves your purposes and disses others.

Could any of this possibly be because The Sporting News College Football magazine's ranking #51 of what you call a "low grade JUCO" and that #51 ranking of UNT among the other 117 NCAA D1-A schools? Could that possibly be a reason and especially in light of the fact as to where most other college football magazines have ranked your fellow WAC East schools (including your own)?

Could it be that we are a non BCS school (just like SMU) that has an All Star player on a few 1'st team All American lists (with all those other BCS school's players) such All American listings from Playboy, CFN and others who list him among their top 3 AA teams?

Are any of these aforementioned things that causes you to take some of your precious time away from (I'm sure) your own Fortune 500 company that I'm sure your are the CEO and just so you can diss what you call a low grade JUCO in Denton, Texas?

Ask UNT grad Mrs. Lamar Hunt if she would agree with you about UNT on the basis of just one particular college ranking's service; ask SMU grad and new UNT Chancellor Lee Jackson if his view would compare with your own comparing us to a low grade JUCO.

There are special places in our society for haughty, arrogant condescending bores. One might ask how far do some have to fall before they finally start looking up and seeing that they might actully need a friend or 2 (since others who you thought were your friends have betrayed your alma mater at the drop of a hat). FRIENDS? You know, the kind who won't kick your school around and then ask the question, SM "WHO?"

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by SoCal_Pony:
<B>The Princeton Review gives Rice an academic rating of 93, the same score given to Harvard. SMU received an academic grade of 81, comparable to UT’s 82.
TA$M, Baylor and TCU all received grades in the upper 70s.

NTSU scored a whopping 62. UTArlington scored a whopping 62. The University of Texas at Tyler is viewed in such low regard that it was not given an academic rating, but its admission selectivity rating was a 63. Same with Richland Community College and Eastfield Community College, no academic ratings but both have admissions selectivity ratings of 59.

Conclusion – NTSU is a slug of an academic school that is considered only a step above a low-grade community college.

This is not my opinion, but those of the most highly-regarded Princeton Review. For anyone offended by this post, please feel free to contact 212.874.8282 and voice your displeasure. Understand this is not a toll-free call and it might cost you an hour or two of wages. </B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



[This message has been edited by MeanGreenGem (edited 06-17-2003).]

[OldPony]

Much of this back and forth about which school is better is meaningless. Reputation is what the Princton Review is mostly about but reputations are usually earned. SAT's of today, I believe, are about 100 points higher than 15-20 years ago. The test was change sometime in the 90's and I believe that the 100 points was or was near the correlation meaning that if you scored 1200 in 1975 that the equivalent score today would be about 1300. Yes- inflation has reached even college testing as well as grade point averages. Remember when a 3.0 student was considered bright? UNT's rankings are as good or better than many in the WAC. Each school is trying to better themselves with a conference. To SMU that means realigning upward again with TCU. To UNT that means stepping up to SMU. SMU will have better opportunities to step up than UNT because of reputation and history of the program. Neither will be asked by a BCS conference. Both may end up in the same conference. UNT would see that as a step up. SMU would see that, at the very best, as a lateral move. Let's just hope that all of the powers in our respective schools try to position their own school the best way possible. This will be a continual process unless the NCAA can get back in charge of college athletics. Right now the BCS schools run everything and the rich continue to get richer.

[Garland Green]

Sorry, I put these figures in my database without referencing the source. However, I found a source where the figures seem to agree. Try //apps.collegeboard.com. You will have to look up each individual school.

From my database, Stanford was ranked #1 with 1550. That means that 25% of their incoming freshmen scored either 1550, 1560. 1570, 1580, 1590 or a perfect 1600. Rice and Duke at numbers 2 and 3 both had percentile numbers above 1499.

Make no mistake, SMU has strong academics. No one is denying that fact. It's just that most Division 1-A universities are also far removed from JUCOs.

What I do not understand is that SMU is now in a conference with the two lowest-ranking universities scholastically, UTEP and Fresno State.

Attendance and performance have little to do with academics unless entrance requirements are so low that anyone can get in and that professors will give athletes their grades. The NCAA compliance team does a decent job of seeing that all minimum standards are met.

[Eddie P]

The scores on Garland Green's website.

Middle 50% of First-Year Students:

SAT I Verbal: 490-600
SAT I Math: 490-620
ACT Composite:20-25

[MustangKurt20]

My opinoin of UNT from an academic standpoint went in the crapper when a kid I graduated w/ in Lone Oak (graduating class of 38) was accepted to UNT w/ a 2.5 GPA and an 880 SAT and ranked 25th in the class. He was also denied entry to Texas A&M at Commerce and the University of Texas at Tyler. There were about four Lone Oak kids who could barely spell their own name who got in to UNT. Just the facts. Throw me statistics about admissions and SAT scores or median averages all you want. I know kids at SMU and I know kids at UNT. NO COMPARISON.

Kurt

[MeanGreenGem]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by MeanGreenGem:
<B>MustangKurt20, you've been known to tell some pretty tall Texas tales or make extreme statements on the 2 SMU boards from time to time which (of course) serve your own agenda. Are you sure this is not one of them?

Some of the best employees I've hired in the industry I've been in for almost 3 decades were SMU grads. I was always impressed with them. Yet that group all seemed to be very well adjusted, balanced and level headed, though. I cannot say the same of a few select posters on this board; and IMHO, after reading some of your lagniape and tommyrot the last 2 years, most of them belong in your crapper.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[MustangKurt20]

What tall tales have I told? Please enlighten me!!! For the sake of not embarassing the kid I'm talking about b/c he is a friend of him, I'm not going to disclose his name but you can call the Lone Oak ISD counsellor , her name is Leannette Davies and ask her about the academic reputation of the Lone Oak kids who have been accepted to UNT. Please feel free and report back to me. Also report to me the information of me embellishing anything.

Kurt

[MustangKurt20]

And what about your half cocked conspiracy theories about the Princeton Review and the U.S. World Report? Think twice before you accuse someone of embellishing things.

Kurt

[MeanGreenGem]

If you want to call the UT-Austin president and the Dallas Morning News "half cocked" on both of their negative slants on that article in the Sunday DMN many months ago on the subject of college ranking magazines and their questionable methods, then you go right ahead. I know how I feel about some of them myself. Its the same way some leagues feel about SMU when they pencil you all into yet another "written on napkins" league scenario without really checking on what is going on at the SMU of today, that is, when they have not seen your real BIS attendance of most of your last 2 or 3 WAC home games at Ford. Kurt, do you want to be the one who tells them how it really is (or do we need yet another WAC school hiding behind more smoke and mirrors and past reputation of days gone by)?

As far as the Lone Oak student situation, UNT has 31,000 students and 100,000 DFW alums; were they all Rhodes scholars when they entered UNT as I am most assurred you were when you entered SMU? No, they weren't, but that is why public universities are much more diversified than private schools with their student body. You should know more than anyone with your apparent sensitivities as to what SMU's local and regional reputation is with your school's well documented predominently lilly whiteness and all those BMW's for Biff and Muffy driving around campus as birthday presents from "Poppy?" You dish it out on UNT/so take some of it back.

At UNT, you'd find some BMW's, some nice PT Cruisers, a Ford truck, an old Pontiac on its last miles, etc, etc, etc, BUT that is what a Texas public university is all about, and isn't that really a microcosm of the real world that we all have to adapt to no matter whether we grew up on silk stocking row or in the hood, Kurt?

<>*<> Lone Oak, once again: I'd be careful referring to any names (even counselors) on even a college smack board because there is something out there called the National Privacy Act. Some people are very sensitive to having their names brought into such a discussion as even this one which is all but over.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by MustangKurt20:
<B>And what about your half cocked conspiracy theories about the Princeton Review and the U.S. World Report? Think twice before you accuse someone of embellishing things.

Kurt</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



[This message has been edited by MeanGreenGem (edited 06-18-2003).]