To the UNT and SMU Faithful

[MustangKurt20]

I know your out there reading this board and maybe the other almost dormant SMU Mustang Maniacs board so I wanted to take this opportunity to state that I am not opposed to joining a conference that has UNT in it. Like many SMU faithful, I was a bit reluctant at first to align w/ a school that hasn't accomplished a lot outside of their recent success the past two seasons. But I do feel like UNT has a good chance to be competitive over a sustained period of time. Something SMU hasn't been able to do for the past fifteen seasons. The simple fact of the matter is that what the UNT posters have said makes sense. A game against North Texas would draw more interest than our current lot of Boise St. , San Jose St. , Nevada, etc. The three DFW D1A schools MUST align for survival. That's the simple fact of the matter. So here is my proposal...

SMU
TCU
Houston
North Texas
Rice
Tulane
New Mexico
UTEP
Lousiana Tech
Tulsa

What do you think?

Kurt

[EastStang]

Boise State may not draw a lot of fans in Dallas, but it may give us a better chance at television revenues than UNT. Nevada may not draw at SMU, but made the NIT last year which provided revenues to the conference. UNT finished 260 out of 268 in Commissioner's Cup rankings. Not a real committment to a strong program. We compete with UNT for recruits to some degree and would have even more competition from them if we were in the same conference. Sure they might draw 3000 fans more than SJS (and my bet is that is about it), so I don't see the upside. Also perception is reality. Partnering with UNT in a conference is a step down. Sorry but facts is facts.

Also New Mexico is in the MWC, I doubt they'd leave that conference for this set up.

[This message has been edited by EastStang (edited 06-27-2003).]

[Pony Up]

I still don't see TCU leaving CUSA or UNM leaving the Mountain West.

I'd think we'd have to move to join them, rather than try to convince them to join us in the WAC.

[MustangKurt20]

I wasnt aware they were that bad in their overall athletic program. WOW. I still think UNT isn't a bad option if we can get those other schools involved.

Kurt

[SoCal_Pony]

Kurt,

As I see it, 2 main problems with your conference:

1)TCU, one of the 2 crown jewels of this conference, will not want to join.
2)Outside of Texas and LA (where this conference will have only moderate appeal) this conference will have anemic appeal.

That is why I would rather see us in a regional division (eastern WAC, eastern MWC or western C-USA) of a more nationally recognized conference. Being in a regional division accomplishes your travel cost concerns, while still playing that one or two games per year against a Fresno State, BYU or So Miss that could have enough national appeal to be televised on ESPN.

I agree with you that NTSU has more appeal than Nevada or San Jose State, but I don’t believe an alignment with them should be our first choice.

More importantly to us, we need to find a way to be in the same conference with TCU. It is extremely unfortunate that our own administration has placed us in a position that some at TCU feel we are so much beneath them that we should not be in the same conference. I think our administration and the Pye Model are looking EXTREMELY ANTIQUATED right now given the behavior of the ACC and BE. They realize the importance of money (whether rightly or wrongly) in today’s athletics, we still do not.

On a positive note, I now have a cell phone that can receive and send Ponyfan postings real time. It is very cool.

[MeanGreenGem]

MANIFESTO #17 (A great number for a QB)!

Well, Kurt, I guess this means Armaggedon and Gabriel's trumpet call can't be far behind with your announcement here on PonyFans.com! I commend you for your gutsy call (or announcement) since a few of your fellow alums still think UNT has some kind of Biblical disease of huge proportions or whatever!

I have in no post of mine in recent times advocated UNT and SMU should be in a league together. I have said it would just make $en$e to tee it up every once in a while if either school can arrange their OOC schedules since we all plan those non conference games so far in advance. I would never expect SMU to give up a future game with Nebraska in other words to replace it with UNT or for UNT to give up a series of games with UT just to work SMU into a schedule.

One of your posters seems to be most unfamiliar with the attendance history of the SMU/UNT football series. None of our games (in modern times) have ever drawn less than 22,000 real butts in seats and one was well over 50,000 as I recall. Both of our school's promotion's departments have to work well into the night to try to find a way to get 22K real fans out for either of our school's home conference games, now dont' they?

With the aforementioned in mind, I will agree to disagree with that SMU poster who says that a SMU/UNT game (as he suggests) would only draw about 3,000 more fans (max) than any WAC conference game you would have in Ford Stadium.

I simply defer that Mustang poster to the UNT/TCU game last year when a 1 & 2 Mean Green (without any momentum or our All Star QB who was injured); anyway, our team limped into Amon Carter Stadium, still with about 5,200 Mean Green fans and all this gave the Frogs their biggest home crowd of their 2002 season, even a larger crowd than their last crucial home conference game at ACS which would determine if they would become a CUSA football co-champ and go bowling in Memphis.

Another of your posters suggests we recruit the same players? My only response to that is there are an awful lot of Texas HS football players, I do mean an awful lot (I was even one of them years ago for heaven's sake, though heavily unrecruited).

Now I have noticed SMU has discovered what we thought was UNT's well kept secret recruiting grounds of recent years and that is in the state of Oklahoma. That discovery and tapping of Oklahoma high school talent seems to have begun for SMU since Phil Bennett arrived; BUT you know what I have to say about that? I have to say: GREAT GOING, PHIL! We are (after all) talking about competition of which I think the foundation and fabric of our very country was built.

<>*<> But to answer your question of "what do you think" of your own league configuration? I think that league is do-able at some point in time but I think mostly I like your statement when you say the 3 Metroplex D1-A schools need to unite (in some form or fashion) which would literally force the Metroplex TV, radio and print media (because of all our combined constituencies) to have to admit that the Metroplex is no longer just about Longhorns, Aggies and the Big 12 (and then do something about it)!

CLOSING NOTE: I will give some kudos to area media by saying that every SMU/UNT football game I've attended since the modern era continued back in 1974 (our 1'st game was in 1922)when I was a sophmore at NTSU, anyway, none of our match-ups have really ever lacked for media coverage. In fact, I was more than impressed with the "front page" SportsPage Dallas Morning News coverage for all our games with usually a nice quarter page color action photo of the game.

Kurt, you are making $en$e for both schools with the call you have made (upon further review) on this matter. Now, go down to Lamar Hunt's office and have a nice pow wow with that great SMU alum and icon. (Don't forget to remind him what college town he had to go up to to find his lovely wife, also)!

Turn the thing around in '03, Stangs!

MeanGreenGem

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Originally posted by MustangKurt20:
<B>I know your out there reading this board and maybe the other almost dormant SMU Mustang Maniacs board so I wanted to take this opportunity to state that I am not opposed to joining a conference that has UNT in it. Like many SMU faithful, I was a bit reluctant at first to align w/ a school that hasn't accomplished a lot outside of their recent success the past two seasons. But I do feel like UNT has a good chance to be competitive over a sustained period of time. Something SMU hasn't been able to do for the past fifteen seasons. The simple fact of the matter is that what the UNT posters have said makes sense. A game against North Texas would draw more interest than our current lot of Boise St. , San Jose St. , Nevada, etc. The three DFW D1A schools MUST align for survival. That's the simple fact of the matter. So here is my proposal...

SMU
TCU
Houston
North Texas
Rice
Tulane
New Mexico
UTEP
Lousiana Tech
Tulsa

What do you think?

Kurt</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



[This message has been edited by MeanGreenGem (edited 06-28-2003).]

[MustangKurt20]

MeanGreenGem,

I think the conference I suggested is contigent on several things. One of those is for TCU to acknowledge the fact that they would benefit from joining a conference w/ North Texas and SMU (two schools they view as beneath them at this point). In order for TCU to join us I think SMU and North Texas have to win and win consistently. UNT's recent success is encouraging. SMU is riding on their own name and has just now started to show signs of improvement for the future by signing a solid recruiting class that could lay our foundation. We have to market our programs and the best ( maybe the only way) is to win. If we had 3 DFW area teams that were really solid, it can only help the situation for keeeping top DFW talent here and creating fan interest in all schools involved.

Kurt

[Stallion]

Sorry pal, NTSU drew 10,200 in 1992 but to be fair the other 2 games since the DP drew 22,000 which is above average. The attendance of the games during Russ Potts' Mustang Mania days had nothing to do with NTSU-I was intimitely involved in the program during those days. That's like saying that Rice drew 60,000 when in their last trip before Mustang Mania they drew 6,000. Now as a long time SMU fans I will admit that you brought decent numbers of the crowds during the mid 1970s when Hayden Fry was coaching when there were 3 games that averaged in the 26,000 range. I don't think there is any doubt that NTSU would draw better than just about any school in the WAC, but NTSU itself is to blame for the lack of your schools appeal. Your football facility sucks, your general athletic program sucks, your athletic history other than last year(sorry 5-7 records in the Sun Belt aren't anything to shout about) is poor and despite a huge Dallas alumni base NTSU still struggles with attendance. The answer to NTSU's problem is to solve their own problems and you will force your way into the mix VERY QUICKLY. Last year which I think is the only year worth bragging about in what 25 years is a foundation-build your alumni base and facilties and you may have an argument in 5-10 years.

[MeanGreenGem]

FIRST THOUGHTS ON A SUNDAY MORNING: Stallion, I am just stating a few facts and relevant issues of the UNT of today and of the UNT of tomorrow, not going back to the days when Matty Bell was coach of your Mustangs football team.

You have your obvious dyed-in-the-wool impressions of UNT (of which I believe a well guided tour of our Denton campus of today would change, but for some of your elect, the easier road seems to be the one where they would rather not hear or see what they might just hear and see on such a tour of UNT; so therefore, its just easier for some to revert to days of yesteryear with those same tired, worn out, boring old perceptions of UNT passed down to them from those who passed them down to them. At some point, that cycle will be broken even with that hardy handful of SMU cynics, but for those from the Hilltop I've worked with in my profession for many years here in the Metroplex, that cycle already has been broken.

BUT...I think most of what Mustang Kurt (a current SMU student if I recall his recent posts) is projecting is mostly the future on all of this, Stallion. That game at Ownby only drew 10,200? Would it have been reported as 18-21,000 had the opponent that day been any other school than UNT? I was at that game and it seemed more than 10,200 but there we go again, reverting back to the past. You are right about the decent crowds during the Fry era, though. I've not missed any SMU/UNT games.

I am just one who likes the collegiate Game Day environment at a stadium on a cool Fall afternoon when both schools have their fans and marching bands in the mix. I like all the innocent taunting that goes on, too. That (to me) is what college football is all about.

CHECK THIS OUT: UNT (like SMU) has struggled at the gate because we, too, have had few winning seasons the last 25 years (12 of those spent in an NCAA purgatorial existence called 1-AA); heck, we've still only only had 2 "W" seasons out of the last 12, one in 1994 as a 1-AA school when we averaged right at 20,000 per home game that year (I know, go figure?) and then in 2003, those are our last 2 winning seasons.

I am personally happy (and suprised) with what fan base we did retain during all those losing years to be perfectly honest. What we add to that base of fans could turn out to be very special for UNT at the turstiles in due time (and that IMHO, of course). <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Stallion:
<B> I don't think there is any doubt that NTSU would draw better than just about any school in the WAC, but NTSU itself is to blame for the lack of your schools appeal. Your football facility sucks, your general athletic program sucks, your athletic history other than last year(sorry 5-7 records in the Sun Belt aren't anything to shout about) is poor and despite a huge Dallas alumni base NTSU still struggles with attendance. The answer to NTSU's problem is to solve their own problems and you will force your way into the mix VERY QUICKLY. Last year which I think is the only year worth bragging about in what 25 years is a foundation-build your alumni base and facilties and you may have an argument in 5-10 years.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



[This message has been edited by MeanGreenGem (edited 06-29-2003).]

[Garland Green]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by EastStang:
<B>Boise State may not draw a lot of fans in Dallas, but it may give us a better chance at television revenues than UNT. Nevada may not draw at SMU, but made the NIT last year which provided revenues to the conference. UNT finished 260 out of 268 in Commissioner's Cup rankings. Not a real committment to a strong program. We compete with UNT for recruits to some degree and would have even more competition from them if we were in the same conference. Sure they might draw 3000 fans more than SJS (and my bet is that is about it), so I don't see the upside. Also perception is reality. Partnering with UNT in a conference is a step down. Sorry but facts is facts.

Also New Mexico is in the MWC, I doubt they'd leave that conference for this set up.

[This message has been edited by EastStang (edited 06-27-2003).]</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[MeanGreenGem]

Garland Green, my computer does not show a post from you. Did you hit a wrong button? Just curious? How'd the meeting go?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Garland Green:
<B> </B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>