Turner On Realignment

[50's PONY]

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Retooled conference could benefit Wave

President of SMU says he'd like to be aligned with Tulane


Friday July 04, 2003


By Ted Lewis
Staff writer

Tulane and Southern Methodist belong in the same conference.

That's the idea floated Thursday by SMU president Gerald Turner.


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Whether that's an expanded Western Athletic Conference or Conference USA is still up for debate.

"Our goal is to come out of this in a conference that is more geographically compact," said Turner, whose school currently is in the WAC. "That might be in the WAC or it might be in Conference USA

"Either way, having Tulane as part of that certainly would be very desirable."

With conference realignment a hot topic following the move of Miami and Virginia Tech to the Atlantic Coast Conference from the Big East, speculation has been heavy that one to four Conference USA schools would wind up in the Big East, while the WAC would absorb most of C-USA's westernmost schools, including Tulane.

But Turner said it could go the other way.

"Maybe we could call ourselves the new Southwest Conference," he said. "Either way, you would have a division where everyone is in driving range, which is very important.

"And you also cut down your own travel costs."

A 12-team C-USA most likely would have SMU, Tulane, Louisiana Tech, Rice, Houston and Tulsa in its Western Division, and Memphis, Alabama-Birmingham, Southern Mississippi, East Carolina and South Florida in the Eastern Division, along with one other school, probably Central Florida. An expanded WAC would include those same schools that would make C-USA's West, along with Hawaii, San Jose, Nevada, Boise State, Fresno State and Texas-El Paso.

That's based on the possibility of Louisville and Cincinnati going to the Big East. If any of the other C-USA schools go to the Big East, then new schools could be added or the league could, temporarily, go with less than 12 members.

Texas Christian, currently in C-USA and located 40 miles from SMU's campus in Dallas, would be desirable in such a conference, Turner said, adding, "But I don't know what they want to do."

TCU officials could not be reached for comment.

Tulane president Scott Cowen has endorsed the idea of the Green Wave being in a more regionalized league.

"The best thing in conference realignment for everybody is that you try to be located in a conference where you are geographically related to the other schools," Cowen said. "It makes the most financial sense and it also gives you natural rivalries against schools that have similar institutional goals and where there's a fan base that's interested."

Louisiana Tech athletic director Jim Oakes said, while it's too early to speculate on specific alignments and his school enjoyed being under the WAC banner, anything that lessened travel would be welcomed in a league where his baseball and volleyball teams had to travel as far as Hawaii for conference games.

"Who knows what the landscape is going to look like?" he asked. "Nothing matters until the Big East makes its move."

However, unlike those who say the Big East will wait several months before adding any teams, Oakes said he felt things would continue to develop at a rapid pace.

"I think everybody is anxious to get this done," he said. "Remember the original intent for the ACC was to take in Miami, Boston College and Syracuse.

"If the lawsuit hadn't slowed them down, that's probably what would have happened."

The conference movement is bound to have an effect on the BCS arrangement after the current contracts expire following the 2005 season, said Cowen, who has convened a conference call among the 54 non-BCS schools on July 22.

"I'm not naive enough to think the whole system is going to change," he said. "But there are going to be a lot of interesting conversations over the next 12 to 18 months.

"I still personally want to see a playoff system with as many as 16 schools. We may not get there the next time around, but I believe it will happen eventually."

. . . . . . .

Ted Lewis can be reached at tlewis@timespicayune.com or (504) 826-3405.


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[Charleston Pony]

and another opinion on what might come of this realignment talk. Nothing we haven't seen before. If the Big East loses it's BCS standing and suddenly is thrown into competition with the other non-BCS conferences for a "wild card" invite, I wold expect them to take the strongest eastern group available and I'd also expect the MWC to counter by offering Hawaii, Fresno, Boise & TCU which would make them as strong as any group the Big East could put together.

<A HREF="http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/colleges/big12/stories/070103dnspoaccq%26a.7d93b.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/colleges/big12/stories/070103dnspoaccq%26a.7d93b.html</A>

[Diehard Pony]

IMO, TCU moving to the MWC with the group of western WAC teams would get them nowhere except another non-BCS conference with even worse geography than C-USA or the WAC has today. Wouldn't the closest competitor be about 1,500 miles away? The cost for non-revenue sports would be staggering, and with the exception of possibly BYU or Fresno, none of the teams in the league would bring any fan interest (Wyoming, Air Force, etc).

[Stallion]

what no TCU fan can explain is how would a MWC-12 get a BCS bowl when the WAC 16 containing essentially the same teams did not.

[NavyCrimson]

& if byu/utah jump to the pac10 (barring colorado) - then what for the frogs?

another sinking ship?

that's a heck of a gamble to make if the bcs-bs stays 'legitimate'.

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[Water Pony]

It seems to me that the Tulane President, Cowen, has an ambitious but critical role as an advocate for constructive change. The three themes should be:

1. LOOSEN the grip of the BCS conferences and schools. We can't expect them to unilaterally disarm or limit their efforts just to be fair. But controlling 90-95% of the bowl revenue condemns half of the schools (non-BCS Div. 1A) to a perpetual non-competitive positon. The proposals and alternatives must permit a reasonable opportunity to win and be compettive, plus gain greater access to revenue potential. NCAA and Myles Brand better start showing leadership or a bad situation will definitely get worse.

2. RATIONALIZE the conferences by geography. Geography is important to reduce travel demands on student athletes and lower costs while increasing natural rivalries and fan participation.

To that end, geographic rationalization should be a key criteria for BE, Conf. USA, MWC and WAC. Sunbelt and MAC should also consider it, but for the moment let's focus on the four strongest Mid-Majors (BE will be one in two to three years).

- BE can be healthy with modest expansion into Ohio Valley, e.g. Louisville and Cincinnati, plus adding East Carolina with affiliation with Navy and Army for FB only, if they want. This is a tighter conference that previously configured and would be the best of the Mid-Majors initially. (BB can be addressed separately.)

- Conference USA can survive my morphing conceptually into Stallion's Conference of the South ranging from the Texas schools (TCU, SMU, Rice, Houston) plus Tulsa or La Tech to Florida with So. Fla and maybe Central Fla. UAB may or may not remain in conference (self selection here). With Memphis and So. Miss in you have strength in FB and BB. Great rivalries too with TCU/SMU, Houston/Rice, Tulsa/Memphis/UAB, Tulane/So. Miss/La Tech, So. Fla/Central Fla., if you go to 12.

- MWC can remain as is or add in order Boise State, Neveda, Frenso State and Hawaii. Two time zones coverage (instead of three), with the possible exception of Hawaii joining.

- WAC would struggle doing the Conference of the South concept, because I don't see TCU agreeing to return. That leaves the WAC merging with the SunBelt, if all Texas schools leave and MWC grabs two or four schools. If no merger, WAC must get TCU to keep Texas schools in the fold or shrink.

3. REFORM the NCAA. Improve competition and commitment to full Athletic Programs for Divison 1A schools for revenue and non-revenue sports, strong committmet to Title IX, progress toward graduation, minimum but effective academic standards, FB attendence, etc.

KEY ISSUE: Seems that TCU will need to see the benefit to them of the Conf. of the South concept, probably inside Conf. USA. They have done well recently in FB, but MWC would not gain them entrance into the BCS (which should be controlled or eliminated away), would dramatically increase their costs, no likely increase in Fort Worth attendance (maybe less) and the reality that the best they can do is hold their current position, which isn't a given over time.

I like our long term prospects as well as theirs. If they want to excel long term, the Conf. USA/Conf. of the South idea is ideal for them, as well as for us and our SW peers.

Anyway, I wish luck to the Tulane President. We need integrity into this process. Perhaps he, Turner and other leaders (where are you Brand?) can clear an honest, credible and sustainable path.

Go Ponies. Go Tradition.

[This message has been edited by Water Pony (edited 07-06-2003).]

[Charleston Pony]

The key to whether a 12 member MWC (with addition of Hawaii, Fresno, Boise & TCU) would earn a BCS bid is whether the Big East retains it's place at the table and whether the BCS expands to add a 5th game and guarantee one invitation to a non-BCS school (as has been discussed by the BCS cartel leadership). Given the football development of Hawaii, Boise & TCU and the consistent strong play of Fresno and CSU, that group would probably compete with the Big East for that spot (although Marshall might have something to say about it).

Anyways, if TCU wants to play in a conference where their closest conference mate is over 500 miles away...well, I'd say their leadership has been blinded by their recent success. They must think they will be the next Miami.

[EastStang]

The Washington Post today had a huge article about the Big East situation and a very little about its options. But the article had one nugget, it said basically that whomever ABC wants in the BCS will be in the BCS. My guess is that ABC wants BC, Syracuse, Pitt, W.Va. on television regionally and in its BCS bowls. Thus, I suspect that the Big East will do whatever it takes to retain its BCS status. The MWC schools have a limited appeal. Their ratings were awful last year (worse than the WAC). TCU will not boost their ratings any higher and the cost of travel would go against their natural instincts. I don't see BCS coming to the MWC at all, but hey I have been wrong before.

[Hoop Fan]

You guys are trying to apply way too much logic to the TCU to MWC concept. What does logic have to do with it? Boston College was within an eyelash of joining the ACC where most of the conference would have been over 500 miles away also. In the end, logic didnt derail that as much as politics. Maybe politics will prevent MWC from inviting TCU, but they are both so desperate for BCS consideration that I think such a scenario could easily happen if the tv execs and consultants see some value in it.

[DallasFrog]

From our standpoint, BCS inclusion comes alot sooner with the MWC than it does with a localized CUSA. It's ridiculous to think otherwise. Who knows how long BYU and Utah stay, but those two along with CSU, Fresno, Hawaii make for a solid conference.

I think we'd rather be apart of a CUSA that takes pieces from the existing Big East to possibly form the 6th BCS conference that way, but that is less likely right now.

It may not be feasible to continue to travel such great distances, but if our primary goal is the BCS then we may just have to go that route.

[OldPony]

One problem Frog. Even if the MWC restrctured the way you speculate, only BYU would have qualified for BCS Bowls in the past 20 years. Hawaii, FSU, Utah, TCU, AF, CSU etc get no respect from BCS schools. I don't think any of those have been in the top 10 (at the end) for over 20 years. AM I wrong?

[EastStang]

Good luck in trying to get into the MWC. I hope you don't end up independent by waiting too long for that dance partner. Invites have a funny way of coming and going. Ask any independent (not counting ND and Navy) how hard it is to get October dates and home dates. No good teams will want to play you at home. I hope for your sake they invite you, or your administration thinks long and hard about is real options and not pies in the sky.

[NavyCrimson]

CP - your statement: " ... whether the BCS expands to add a 5th game and guarantee one invitation to a non-BCS school"

i've heard there is some talk about whether that's on the table or not, but its still merely a joke by its shear numbers ... think of it this way - that's one bowl game divided up among 53 (est.) teams vs. already 4 bowl games for 53 or so bcs-bs teams! NOW THAT IS A PURE INSULT PLAIN & SIMPLE TO THE REST OF US - BUT HAS OUR SIDE FIGURED THAT ONE OUT - I HOPE SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THE ONLY WAY TO DEAL WITH THIS BS IS COURT ACTION & DO AWAY WITH THIS WHOLE DAMN CARTEL OR NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE!!!!

face it - the bcs was put in place to 'snuff' out the compeitition & its do just that.

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[This message has been edited by Navy&Crimson (edited 07-07-2003).]

[DallasFrog]

Old,
Last I checked not too many, rather any, non-BCS schools finish in the top 10 without going undefeated. Several have been in the top 10 at one point, including TCU, but if you don't finish undefeated, you're not staying in the top 10. So by creating a super-conference of non-BCS teams, like the one mentioned, BCS consideration might be made. It's pure speculation, but once again it has a much better chance than a regional CUSA might have.

As for going independent, well, if you honestly think that may happen, you're crazy. Start thinking D-II for yourself.

[BenW]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by DallasFrog:
<B>From our standpoint, BCS inclusion comes alot sooner with the MWC than it does with a localized CUSA. It's ridiculous to think otherwise. Who knows how long BYU and Utah stay, but those two along with CSU, Fresno, Hawaii make for a solid conference.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Really? Out of that MWC bunch I see 3 consistently good football programs - Colo State, Fresno State and BYU; I then see 3 up and downers - Hawaii, Air Force and Utah.
Okay, now let's look at C-USA (after, let's say lou, cincy and ecu leave). ONe good consistent program in USM; one program that is up and down in Tulane; you also have the unknown - USF - who may be really good - I'll put them in the up and down category. Then add Marshall who is consistent.
So what do you have?
Consistent - MWC 3, C-USA 2
Up and Down - MWC 3, C-USA 2
Not much difference in top-end strength - but a big difference in expenses, especially if C-USA adds, say 3 EWAC teams (any more than that would be silly). Plus, one of these days schools like Houston and maybe even SMU will pull it together.