Ramon Flanigan

[ponyboy]

I remember first hearing about Ramon and thinking, of all possible great football names (Joe Montana, [deleted] Butkus, Mean Joe Greene, Johnny Unitas), this kid's was certainly NOT one of them. I mean a black guy with a hispanic first name and an Irish last name? Certainly not encouraging.

Then I saw him. He looked to be about 159 pounds wet and I though there's no way he'll ever make it out there against SWC opponents.

But you know what? I'd put Ramon in the top 10 all time for SMU football players. He simply knew how to make the play. Remember when Dickerson would shuttle out on the field and you (and everyone else in the stadium) knew McIllhenny would pitch to him around the end for a massive gain? I always had that same confidence with Ramon.

[OldPony]

Again- Lets keep this somewhat real. I liked Ramon too but SMU Top 10? No way. Probably not top 100 in all time category. How about best post DP QB?

[BleedingRed+Blue]

I'll agree that Ramon is the best post-DP quarterback - a title I fully expect him to lose to Richard Bartel before Bartel is through playing. I think I'm somewhere between ponyboy and OldPony - I don't think he's top 10 all-time, but he's certainly well up the list in the top 100. Consider the fact that many times, he was running for his life, and used his sensational athletic ability to get away and find receivers -- remember he wasn't just a runner, he was a solid passer, too. Some of his teams were so grossly outmatched that he needed every bit of his speed and quickness just to stay alive, and he was a lot tougher than a guy that thin should have been.

I had the pleasure of seeing him play baseball when he was a senior in high school. If you think he was thin when he got to SMU, you should have seen him in high school - he was barely thicker than the bat that looked too big for him to lift. But he could hit, and of course he could run. In one game, I saw him race back to deep center field to make a catch, turn and fire a laser to the plate to nail a runner tagging at third base - my first indication that SMU had signed a really special talent.

He was an absolute pleasure to watch.

[OldPony]

Top 100 all time at SMU is impressive. Ramon was fun and exciting and I loved to watch him play. Cavan is no genius but he thought he had better QB's even when Ramon was there (I disagree). There were 10 guys on the Pony Express team alone who were better. There have been at least 5 players who were better since the DP. Just because a guy is a QB and gets the headlines doesn't mean he is the best player on the team. Donald Mitchell, Kevin Garrett and Bordano were better than Ramon- they just didn't play QB. I can think of 4 SMU QB's who were better without trying. That isn't even starting on the great running backs or d-backs let alone some outstanding linemen like Gregg, Mays,Kelcher, Carter, Ball etc. How about great linebackers? I stand by my statement- Maybe top 100 but I'm not sure about that.

[ponyboy]

Ramon Flanigan is the all time leader in total offense at SMU with 7437 yards. To say he did that with an undermanned crew around him would be the understatement of the year. He's top 10. The guy was a miracle. My heart dropped to my toes the first play of that Arkansas game at the Cotton Bowl. I instinctively knew it was over for him, and for all intents and purposes it was. He never got back the elusiveness after the injury.

[GoRedGoBlue]

Ponyboy,

Give me a call.

-Yellow scout

[Dark Horse]

Kevin Garrett has the tools to be in the NFL, but to say he was better than Flanigan? Did he make the plays his speed suggested he could? He can run like lightning, and I sure hope he becomes a star in the NFL. But he didn't have nearly as many interceptions at SMU as he should have, and there were too many games (like OSU last year) when he ran but didn't fight for the ball. Nice player, but Flanigan gave the Ponies a chance to win with very little talent around him.

Maybe not top 10, but definitely 30-40m in my opinion.

[ponyboy]

I lost your number, R. Email me at wildtrout@gtemail.net

[OldPony]

1)Doak Walker 2)Eric Dickerson 3)Jerry Ball 4)Craig James 5)Forrest Gregg 6)Jerry Mays 7)Louie Kelcher Jerry Levias 9)Raymond Berry 10)Chuck Hixon. These are not in order nor anywhere near a complete list but please tell me that there is one there that you would replace with Ramon. If there is try to find two more because it is hard to leave Kyle Rote and Dandy Don off any list. You might also note that Bobby Wilson, Fred Benners etc and other way-old timers are not on my very incomplete list. Nor did I mention Wes Hopkins or Russell Carter. Get real!
Ramon was a very talented player. He played under a system which allowed him to run or throw every time we snapped the ball. He was exciting and played for about 6 years. He is not TOP 10 in the worst stretch of the imagination.

[EastStang]

Top 10 All Time in no particular order
Doak Walker
Kyle Rote
Forest Gregg
Raymond Berry
Don Meredith
Chuck Hixon
Jerry Levias
Mike Livingston
Eric Dickerson
Craig James

Honorable Mentions
Jerry Ball
Lance McIlhenny
Michael Carter
Louie Kelcher
Oscar Roan
Bob Finley (1930's)
Wayne Morris
Arthur Whittington

[ponyboy]

A nice list, OP. Don't forget Dupard.

Is Raymond Berry really deserving to be in the top 10? He had a workmanlike, respectable career on the Hilltop, but it wasn't until he found Unitas that he showed his true greatness.

I love Doak. I really do. But no player that put on the red and blue was as good as #19.

[OldPony]

Good list and you hadn't even begun to run out of names. Alvin Maxon, Billy Bob Stewart, Jerry Griffin, John Roderick, Jim Hadle. How about a trivia question- Name the only Mustang to be all SWC in three different positions.

[mrydel]

Gary Hammond was All SWC at three different positions and would of found a way to do it at 4 had Freshman been eligible.

[Stallion]

Mike Livingston is rated way too high-all your Honorable Mentions rate above him.

[OldPony]

Very good mrydel. Gary would certainly be on any top 20 list. I disagree somewhat with Stallion re Livvy but I see his point. Mike was hurt too much his senior year. That year, A$M won the SWC and SMU was the only team who beat them in conference and SMU won all games Mike started but I think he only started 5. Mike had more talent than most anyone on the list but never worked hard enough to be a top 10. I have seen no mention of Mike Richardson in the lists who certainly deserves a top 25. I notice when these lists are made that few remember linemen who were great like John Lagrone or Jerry Mays. How about Hellestrae? Give me the big boys in the pits and I'll find plenty of outstanding runners and throwers. My original post stands though about Ramon. I feel sorry for the post DP students who never saw some of the great players over the years. I wish I could have seen some of the 30's and 40's Mustangs who put the school on the big time football map.