JUCOS are not the answer

[EastStang]

Thanks Prof. X. I guess I misunderstood your post a year or so ago. The problem cited in getting JUCO's has been transferable hours. Now in the first two years of college, I would assume that your basic JUCO PE major would have taken such gut wrenching courses as biology, english, math (for dummies), PE, Intro to Education. It would seem that most of those credits (except possibly math) would tranfer. Or are they taking courses like racquetball 125, or bowling 135.... If they are trying to transfer those credit hours, I would agree that that will never be allowed SMU again. I would assume that the advisors at these NAIA schools are simply trying to keep their stud players eligible and thus steering them to courses that they can pass, but may not help them to get into a school like SMU later on.

[BUS]

I always thought that the first two years were
Math
Science
English
History
Two full years of each with some Economics ( Macro and Micro ) and maybe some Ethics or Government.

I transfered to SMU and did earn a Physical Education Degree back in 83'. I lost a ton of hours coming from a Community College but that was OK.

If the problem is lossing hours - well I'm sorry about that. Make them up here.

If the problem is Bull [deleted] classes taken at JUCO then we don't want them.

I just want us to use the tools that others use.

[Prof X]

Originally posted by EastStang:
Thanks Prof. X. I guess I misunderstood your post a year or so ago. The problem cited in getting JUCO's has been transferable hours. Now in the first two years of college, I would assume that your basic JUCO PE major would have taken such gut wrenching courses as biology, english, math (for dummies), PE, Intro to Education. It would seem that most of those credits (except possibly math) would tranfer. Or are they taking courses like racquetball 125, or bowling 135.... If they are trying to transfer those credit hours, I would agree that that will never be allowed SMU again. I would assume that the advisors at these NAIA schools are simply trying to keep their stud players eligible and thus steering them to courses that they can pass, but may not help them to get into a school like SMU later on.

Actually introductory math and calculus will transfer, as would both raquetball 125 and bowling 135. This is what I have been saying for awhile now, the majority of what a normal student would take in his first 3 semesters can be transferred. This includes the introductory classes for English, math, most of the sciences, and even the pre-business classes like economics and accounting, if the grade is a C- or higher. Two PE activity classes (your bowling and raquetball classes) will be accepted as “Wellness” credits. The link I am attaching should take you to a list of classes SMU accepts for transfer from Collin County community college. Other lists are available for other schools on SMU’s website, I’m just using this one as an example because our basktball team was interested in a player at CC.
The real key here is to start recruiting them early. If a player has an interest in coming to SMU, get in touch with him early and let him know what classes will transfer and what will not, that way you can guide them into the classes that will let them get in.

http://www.smu.edu/admission/CCCC02-03.pdf

[50's PONY]

"The key is to start recruiting them early" doesn't always apply. As I posted earlier in "Interesting Recruiting Story" there are some who leave high school as full qualifiers, go to respected 4 year schools, and then get homesick --like the two at Blinn and Tyler and like David Page. You just have to go looking for them!

[VarsityShop]

PK:

re: I don't think he was saying "No JUCO's at SMU"

Well then how else do you explain Cheesesteak stating....

"I don't think that JUCOS should be SMU's answer"

"If JUCO talent is such a cure-all then why aren't JUCO-positive WAC teams piling up quality wins or even lots of wins?"

"I believe that SMU is following the correct course by recruiting its football players directly out of high schools"

"I believe Coach Bennett will attract enough HS talent to turn SMU football into a winner"

PK.....it don't get much clearer than that!

Translation: "NO JUCOS AT SMU!"

<img src="http://www.moe.edu.sg/esp/eduinfo/images/pic_teac.gif" alt=" - " />

[PK]

You are right, he is in essense saying NO JUCO's. I think that is basically not a good idea. I would agree that loading up on JUCO's should not be the answer. No JUCO's would have meant no David Page in the past and would mean no Bobby Chase in the future. There will be times when it is appropriate to persue a JUCO. Everyone is complaining about the Coach's hands being tied by the administration and the "NO JUCO" approach is just as bad. Let's let the coach make the decision on who to recruit. He is not going to recruit someone who has no chance of succeeding academically as it would be a wasted scholarship.

<small>[ 10-10-2003, 06:36 AM: Message edited by: PK ]</small>

[Cheesesteak]

David Page is not comparable to the ficticious HS student-athlete (HDT) who became a JUCO star in my example. I could be wrong, but I recall that David started his collegiate career at the University of California at Berkeley (probably the finest public university on Earth).

Although David took a circuitious route to SMU he was (I think) a student at UC Berkeley. How many students in the SMU undergraduate population could gain admmission to Cal?

Lots of D-1A coaches recruit players (that qualify on the most minimal of NCAA standards)who they suspect have a miniscule chance of graduating from the weakest academic program in some of the softest (academically) universities in America. That partly explains how despite unlimited hours of costly tutoring and academic support some well-known football programs annually have football-player graduation rates of less than twenty-five percent.

I was a late-bloomer academically and I have genuine respect for the kid who disciplines himself to become a credible student and an asset to his/her team. But, I would never take (in SMU's case) the who-gets-admitted decision out of Perkins Administration Building. That trickles back to who SMU coaches can recruit.

Across D-1A, some coaches constantly recruit recruit players who have almost no chance of succeeding academically with little damage to their scholarship numbers. A kid who can't cut it academically becomes ineligible to play and usually moves on (athletic scholarships are renewable each year for up to five years (six in special cases) - they are not a guarantee of four-five years on campus). Coaches refill his place on the 85 scholarship (football) roll with a new recruit or possibly give the scholarship to a successful walk-on who has spent some time in the program. This constant gambling on risky players pays off for the Tennessees of the world who fill their signing classes (each February) with potential all-SEC type athletes.

There is discussion within the NCAA about penalizing schools that recruit (academically, deficient or academically unmotivated) players who don't make acceptable academic progress by not allowing the school to backfill the (academically-failed) player's spot on the 85 scholarship roster for a currently undetermined period of time (year, years?).

Go Mustangs.

[VarsityShop]

Cheesesteak......Dude you really make alot of sense!

<img src="http://amin.unice.fr/~titix/gimp/tuto-scheme/smiley.png" alt=" - " />

[PK]

I said let the coach decide who he wants to recruit...not determine who gets accepted into the University. The coaches know what our requirements are. You also make the assumption that all JUCO players are stupid or academically challenged. There are any number of reasons a kid may decide to go to a JUCO or a CC. Why take that option away from the coach?

[SoCal_Pony]

Here is the flip-flop.

By the way, it’s OK to change one’s opinion.

Especially when you make the right change.