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Re: Brace yourselves

Postby PonyDoh » Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:03 am

RGV, I would like to raise hell. Tell me how
“When I first committed to SMU, I thought it would take a couple of years of building. But with these players coming in, we should make a run. We have a lot of heavy hitters. It could get real ugly for a lot of teams we play.”- Jalen Jones
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Re: Brace yourselves

Postby ponyte » Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:07 am

So we now want to admit those that can barely qualify for Fresno State? How the Hades do we keep them in school? SMU is first a higher education institute, not an athletic factory. Didn’t we have a couple of kids that were in but couldn’t make grades already?

SMU isn't just any school; it is one of the best schools in the US. That isn't because just any old person can get in. SMU turns down high GPA, high ACT/SAT students because they have better candidates.

This has been an issue for decades. Some kids just don't qualify for SMU. We use to have kids on our team that were functionally illiterate. Kids that couldn't read or write. And guess what, they couldn't stay in school after about 2 years. Every coach since the DP has had to deal with this.

I am not happy that we have kids that can't meet admission standards. It was a great opportunity for the kids and a loss to our team. And once there was a mechanism that handled this situation. The flip side is that some kid that did qualify now has a spot to attend SMU.

The reality is we have to be a slight bit more selective in the players we recruit.
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Re: Brace yourselves

Postby couch 'em » Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:12 am

ponyte wrote:So we now want to admit those that can barely qualify for Fresno State? How the Hades do we keep them in school? SMU is first a higher education institute, not an athletic factory. Didn’t we have a couple of kids that were in but couldn’t make grades already?

SMU isn't just any school; it is one of the best schools in the US. That isn't because just any old person can get in. SMU turns down high GPA, high ACT/SAT students because they have better candidates.

This has been an issue for decades. Some kids just don't qualify for SMU. We use to have kids on our team that were functionally illiterate. Kids that couldn't read or write. And guess what, they couldn't stay in school after about 2 years. Every coach since the DP has had to deal with this.

I am not happy that we have kids that can't meet admission standards. It was a great opportunity for the kids and a loss to our team. And once there was a mechanism that handled this situation. The flip side is that some kid that did qualify now has a spot to attend SMU.

The reality is we have to be a slight bit more selective in the players we recruit.



SMU SAT averages:

•Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
•SAT Critical Reading: 560 / 660
•SAT Math: 580 / 680
•SAT Writing: - / -


USC SAT averages:

•Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
•SAT Critical Reading: 620 / 720
•SAT Math: 650 / 740
•SAT Writing: 640 / 720


They seem to do just fine.
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Re: Brace yourselves

Postby Buddha » Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:15 am

That's true, some don't qualify. If that's the case, don't have your coaches wasting their time (and high school players' time) recruiting kids who can't get in.

If a student gets admitted and then flunks out, then it's that student's fault, or the fault of the faculty and tutors. That's a different issue entirely. I don't want to see us go back to the days of President Pye's "Harvard of the South" policies, but if our standards are higher than those at most schools — and I'm OK with it if they are — then that has to be made clear UP FRONT. To recruit a kid and have him sign and then deny admission in JULY is inexcusable.

Plus, this is happening so late in the game that it's extremely difficult to find another school to attend. At its core, the purpose of the university is to help educate students, right? By dragging out this process so long, it does an irreparable disservice to guys like Hall and Jackson, who turned down other offers because they were led to believe they could get in at SMU.

If you ask me, SMU owes both an education, whether they ever play football or not.
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Re: Brace yourselves

Postby MustangDad » Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:24 am

I am proud to say that my daughter was admitted to a school like SMU. However, I have seen kids from other high schools with very little to offer academically be offered full rides to schools they would otherwise not be admitted to had they not played sports.

Does anyone know what these players lacked to not be admitted? All I can find is that SMU cannot release that info.
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Re: Brace yourselves

Postby ender3 » Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:47 am

Buddha wrote:To recruit a kid and have him sign and then deny admission in JULY is inexcusable.

Plus, this is happening so late in the game that it's extremely difficult to find another school to attend. At its core, the purpose of the university is to help educate students, right? By dragging out this process so long, it does an irreparable disservice to guys like Hall and Jackson, who turned down other offers because they were led to believe they could get in at SMU.



And that was the core theme of my letter to Turner, excepted below.

ender3 wrote:And now, it seems, some segment of the administration at SMU decided to cut Coach Jones off at the knees. It's not about the specific players. It's about the credibility of the school and the coaching staff. It's about the classless nature of the denial of admissions. These kids put their faith in SMU, based on promises made my SMU officials, and have now had that trust betrayed. It's not like they can just go to any other school that offered them a scholarship... you see, when they accepted SMU's offer, those scholarships were given to other worthy athletes. My understanding is that the student athletes involved have no criminal record, no off-the-field issues, and that they were full qualifiers under NCAA guidelines.

This is not acceptable. If SMU makes an offer of a scholarship, and the student fulfills their end of the bargain by keeping their record clean, and qualifying academically, then SMU must admit them. It's a matter of class, and it's just the way you deal with people in good faith.

Granted, I don't know, and will never know due to privacy concerns, all the circumstances that have led to this denial of admission. Maybe there are circumstances that I am not aware of, but if this denial was due to political considerations, and they lead to the departure of Coach Jones, I will take it as a sign that SMU doesn't care after all, the hiring of a real football coach was a fluke, and the return to non-competitive athletics (because mediocrity is far too kind a word) is imminent.
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Re: Brace yourselves

Postby Nacho » Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:49 am

practically every single d-1 school has lower admission standards for athletes and anyone else they really want to admit like batoon twillers. we were told our model for athletes was ut which ranks ahead of us per us news and word report. guess we were lied to again.
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Re: Brace yourselves

Postby Bergermeister » Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:56 am

Nacho wrote:practically every single d-1 school has lower admission standards for athletes and anyone else they really want to admit like batoon twillers.

Can't beat a good batoon twirler! :lol:
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Re: Brace yourselves

Postby NavyCrimson » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:09 am

It's one thing to turn someone away but to turn this student or any other in the manner which we did, at the last minute, is deplorable & unprofessional. Someone's job should be in the ringer on this one. But then again, that's our bigotted & prejudicial educational establishments today, too.
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Re: Brace yourselves

Postby HB Pony Dad » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:16 am

couch 'em wrote:
ponyte wrote:So we now want to admit those that can barely qualify for Fresno State? How the Hades do we keep them in school? SMU is first a higher education institute, not an athletic factory. Didn’t we have a couple of kids that were in but couldn’t make grades already?

SMU isn't just any school; it is one of the best schools in the US. That isn't because just any old person can get in. SMU turns down high GPA, high ACT/SAT students because they have better candidates.

This has been an issue for decades. Some kids just don't qualify for SMU. We use to have kids on our team that were functionally illiterate. Kids that couldn't read or write. And guess what, they couldn't stay in school after about 2 years. Every coach since the DP has had to deal with this.

I am not happy that we have kids that can't meet admission standards. It was a great opportunity for the kids and a loss to our team. And once there was a mechanism that handled this situation. The flip side is that some kid that did qualify now has a spot to attend SMU.

The reality is we have to be a slight bit more selective in the players we recruit.



SMU SAT averages:

•Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
•SAT Critical Reading: 560 / 660
•SAT Math: 580 / 680
•SAT Writing: - / -


USC SAT averages:

•Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
•SAT Critical Reading: 620 / 720
•SAT Math: 650 / 740
•SAT Writing: 640 / 720


They seem to do just fine.



HB Pony Daughter was somewhat miffed when she heard that so many of her incoming classmates were denied admission to USC but qualified at SMU!

So let's not get carried away that SMU is too hard to gain admission.

I do acknowledge from first hand experience that SMU is strongly recruiting academic elite students and making major strides in escalating their academic credentials.

However, my first comment to HB Pony Daughter when she informed me she had applied to SMU was...

Why would you want to go there? Their Football Team sucks!


That was all I knew of SMU here in socal, not that SMU was academically elite.

As Samurai Stang and I pointed out in another thread...

Samurai Stang wrote:
HB Pony Dad wrote:
From my personal interaction, Dr. Turner was quite "charming" when he was involved in "academic" recruiting.

Apparently "academic" recruiting is closer to his heart than "athletic" recruiting.

He should realize by now that "athletics" get you National Attention as well as more $$$!


And that a successful football program increases the number of applications, which allows the university to be more selective in who it accepts.


The athletic programs improve SMU not only athletically, but academically as well!

USC, UC-Berkeley, UCLA, Stanford, and UT all seem to get the players they want in and progressing so it is obvious to all of us that this is indeed an "administration thing".

It is time for all of us to step up and do all we can to let the "administration" know that this situation is intolerable!

Obviously, couch 'em is right again.
Last edited by HB Pony Dad on Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brace yourselves

Postby ponyte » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:43 am

One can envision a scenario where SMU waited till July to render a final decision so as to have the final HS school transcript available. That would give the kids one semester more to improve their academic standing. Most kids are accepted to SMU before the last semester of HS is completed. The final transcript was sent to SMU.

A decision made concerning admission based on the final transcript. Assuming a denial of admissions was the decision, then the appeals process is executed. So July may not be all that criminal for a final determination. In fact, SMU may have done all it could to give these young men every chance possible.

I had teammates that couldn’t read or write at SMU. These kids were taken because they could play football, not because they could get a degree. There are things sadder in college sports than being denied admission. Kids that can't make it in school and have 2 years of eligibility gone have very little chance of getting a scholarship elsewhere. They flunk out of one school and are too damaged to be given a chance by another school. Their opportunities to get a degree and have their athletic ability finance that degree are over. And there are schools where they could have received the support needed to stay in school and play.

I am in favor of a process to take kids that may not meet absolute admission standards but have demonstrated some capability of achieving a degree from SMU. I have no idea whether the young men in question have demonstrated the capabilities to succeed at SMU. SMU can’t take a chance on every kid that meets NCAA qualifications but doesn’t meet SMU’s admissions criteria. So where does one make the determination? What are the criteria for these exceptions? Is it just because they can play a sport or twirl a baton?


I just don’t know if the kids we are discussing have demonstrated that capability. If not, then why waste a scholarship and their time on something that has little chance of success?
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Re: Brace yourselves

Postby NickSMU17 » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:45 am

ponyte wrote:One can envision a scenario where SMU waited till July to render a final decision so as to have the final HS school transcript available. That would give the kids one semester more to improve their academic standing. Most kids are accepted to SMU before the last semester of HS is completed. The final transcript was sent to SMU. A decision made concerning admission based on the final transcript. Assuming a denial of admissions was the decision, then the appeals process is executed. So July may not be all that criminal for a final determination. In fact, SMU may have done all it could to give these young men every chance possible.
I had teammates that couldn’t read or write at SMU. These kids were taken because they could play football, not because they could get a degree. There are things sadder in college sports than being denied admission. Kids that can't make it in school and have 2 years of eligibility gone have very little chance of getting a scholarship elsewhere. They flunk out of one school and are too damaged to be given a chance by another school. Their opportunities to get a degree and have their athletic ability finance that degree are over. And there are schools where they could have received the support needed to stay in school and play.
I am in favor of a process to take kids that may not meet absolute admission standards but have demonstrated some capability of achieving a degree from SMU. I have no idea whether the young men in question have demonstrated the capabilities to succeed at SMU. SMU can’t take a chance on every kid that meets NCAA qualifications but doesn’t meet SMU’s admissions criteria. So where does one make the determination? What are the criteria for these exceptions? Is it just because they can play a sport or twirl a baton?


I just don’t know if the kids we are discussing have demonstrated that capability. If not, then why waste a scholarship and their time on something that has little chance of success?



Well then say that when you hire a coach and give out scholarships....don't say everything is equal to other school, and of course you can have a scholarship unless we decide in July its not going to happen...
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Re: Brace yourselves

Postby reddevil » Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:46 pm

RGV Pony wrote:
ponyinNC wrote:can someone give an update on the proposed ad in the DMN calling out Turner? Who is behind this and how can I help??

Just left a message with Turner's secretary and sent an email last night. How many times can I get my hopes up about SMU athletics only to see them crumble. Talk about beating a dead horse.


check your pm's




Send me one too.
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