Josh just threw game winning touchdown!

[Big Cat]

I have no idea why Josh did not make it at SMU, all I am trying to say is that he is doing well in the NFL, and we should support him as an former mustang.

[VarsityShop]

re: Please provide Sanders NFL record.

Only if you will provide the records of the 90% of college quarterbacks that do not have the talent to be even drafted or asked to join the NFL like Josh McCown and Chris Sanders were.

Did the guys Cavan replaced these NFL Quarterbacks with ever even take a single snap in the NFL?

If a college quarterback is one of the very, very select few judged "good enough" by the best experts in the world to be drafeted or asked to try out for the NFL, then it is ridiculous in my opinion to think these type of athletes do not have the talent to play at SMU.

[Roach]

Originally posted by Stallion:
well to demonstrate what a helpless little, sitting duck McCown is because he can't find receivers-those sack numbers were acheived in 3 1/2 games not 4-but to give him the benefit of the doubt if you multiply those stats by 4 to make a full 16 game season McCown would have 92 sacks an incedible 43 sacks more than the NEXT CLOSEST NFL QB at 49. And if you multiply his yards lost in sacks he would have 696 yards lost in sacks SHATTERING the record of the next worst sack-king by more than 320 yards. So basically McCown gets sacked approaching 100% more and loses approaching 100% more than the next worst QB. There is very little doubt that in a full season McCown would shatter any NFL fumble record. Same old bumbling, stumbling McCown.

Thanks for clearing that up. And someone please forward this logic to Dom Capers down in Houston. Because as a rookie, David Carr set (or at least approached) an NFL record for being sacked more times than any QB in NFL history. Clearly if a guy plays behind an offensive line that can't block anyone, it's the QUARTERBACK who has no talent! So it looks like Houston wasted its #1 pick and all that money on Carr -- he has no talent and no future if he actually gets sacked when he's blindsided.

Look at Arizona's OL: Leonard Davis, Anthony Clements, and the rest are enormous, but from what I gather, Davis is the only one who can block anyone. Whether that's the players' fault or the OL coach's fault, I don't know, and frankly I don't care. They're going to have a new OL coach next year after McGinnes got canned, I assume, and they should replace most of the offensive linemen.

This logic is like saying Barry Bonds doesn't get many hits, even though most pitchers are afraid to throw him a strike.

If you don't have a chance to show what you can do, it's pretty ignorant to assume there's no talent there.

[Mickey]

Originally posted by VarsityShop:
re: Please provide Sanders NFL record.

Only if you will provide the records of the 90% of college quarterbacks that do not have the talent to be even drafted or asked to join the NFL like Josh McCown and Chris Sanders were.

Did the guys Cavan replaced these NFL Quarterbacks with ever even take a single snap in the NFL?

If a college quarterback is one of the very, very select few judged "good enough" by [b]the best experts in the world to be drafeted or asked to try out for the NFL, then it is ridiculous in my opinion to think these type of athletes do not have the talent to play at SMU. [/b]

I made a simple request. What does that have to do with the record of "90% of college QBs that didn't make it to the NFL?" Can anyone provide Chris Sanders record in the NFL?

<small>[ 12-30-2003, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: Mickey ]</small>

[TacoPony]

I'd like to say 1 think since I DID watch the Cardinals game vs Minnesota. Josh looks horrible in the pocket. You can blame the offensive line for not giving him time, but still Josh holds onto the ball too long. And the fact that he fumbles is a double-whammy. He needs to learn to throw the ball away and/or to hold onto it once it's too late and he's going down.

Me & the one other guy in humberdinks watching the game were yelling "throw the ball, throw the ball!" on nearly every play. made for an exciting ending anyway.

I'm happy for Josh and his experience winning that game. But the Cards will draft a QB in the first round. I think Josh is good enough to hold a clip-board in the NFL for a while longer.

TP

[OldPony]

Do any of us really care anymore what these guys who left do? Cavan isn't here to beat up on either so this ad nauseum rehash of his faults gets old too.
Let's do this one last time. 1)Cavan couldn't coach QBs. 2)The guys were talented but left us when they couldn't start becuase Cavan didn't know what he was doing in this area. 3)They left SMU so who cares about them anymore. 4)Cavan is gone so who cares about him anymore.
Now on to the future!!

[VarsityShop]

RE:I made a simple request. What does that have to do with the record of "90% of college QBs that didn't make it to the NFL?" Can anyone provide Chris Sanders record in the NFL?

No you are not asking a "simple request"....you are attempting a "dodge". :thumbdown:

It has to do with the 90% because it shows how special these guys were....they had talent the NFL was interested in....you don't run players off like that! You don't run off players that are now starting in the NFL!

(Plus if you really want to know the answer.... there is something called GOOGLE....it's a search engine.....why don't you look it up your self?)

I am not going to waste my time looking up something for you that has no relevance to the point I am making.

The point is that Josh McCown & Chris Sanders made it to the NFL Level.....they had the talent to be drafted or asked by the NFL talent experts to play at that level.

If making it to the NFL means you "suck" then I bet there are thousands of college players every year that would love to get the chance to "suck".

Any player that plays in the NFL has the necessary talent to play at SMU no matter what the now "pencil pusher stashed away in some back office" Mike Cavan says.

Someone said yesterday "oh Mike Cavan is fine he still makes big bucks from SMU".....well I promise you if ANYONE thought Mike Cavan was a good coach they would have hired him and bought out any contract obligations.

Others post about how bad Bennett's record is and then act like that somehow makes Cavan look better....LOL....what a joke. Even if Bennett does not work out that doesn't validate Cavan.

We don't know yet how good a coach Phil Bennett is, but we certainly know Cavan sucked!

[PlanoStang]

From McAndless:

"Coaches are responsible for placing players in the best positions to win. Period. While Josh was playing at SMU, he was never in a system that best suit him, and when two very hard heads (Cavan's and Josh's) don't exactly mesh, problems arise. Josh took the other side and left the program. In doing so, he played for a coach at SHSU that saw his talents and built an offense around him, much like any good coach should do. Congratulations Josh, you're putting together a decent run for serious NFL quarterbacking in the future."



Most really successful coaches build offensive, and defensive strategies around the players they have on-hand. See Hayden Fry, Ron Meyer (great coach, butta cheatah), Forrest Gregg, and Tom Rossley. The latter 2 receive the successful grade because we weren't supposed to win a game until 5 years after resuming football after the DP.

Probably that Morrison guy who invented the
"flyin circus" determined that we weren't big enough to run on anybody. Stayed in his namesake dormitory hall for a year.

These hardhead coaches like Cavan, and I think Bennett may have sporadic success when everything fits their plan. They run into trouble when they cannot get exactly the players they need which is
impossible in SMU's position. No imagination, and
no flexibility results in an 0-12 season.

Copeland seems to have hired 2 of the same personality types in a row?

<small>[ 01-01-2004, 03:49 PM: Message edited by: PlanoStang ]</small>

[Stallion]

Tom Rossley 15-48-3 Lifetime; against SWC 3-30-2; against Rice 0-6 (that alone REQUIRED his immediate dismissal); against Texas Division 1A schools 5-31-2; In his 4th and 5th years when he should have had his program turned in the right direction(assuming he was the Savior of SMU Football) he was 2-19-1; The Myth of the Great Tom Rossley continues-He was an absolute failure as a Head Coach.

<small>[ 01-01-2004, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: Stallion ]</small>

[PlanoStang]

Stallion, Nope, you didn't exactly see my qualification did you?

Guess you're too young to remember all those predictions by the media, and other expert football pundits like you to remember we weren't supposed to win a football game until at least year 6 after our return from the death penalty.
Thats if we fielded a team that long.

Tom Rossley was the OC under Forrest Gregg that led us to the miracle comeback against UConn, and the almost blow out we had against UNT the first year back. The offense always moved the ball, and the defense was getting better each year.

Our won/loss records seemed to be getting better each year under Rossley even against the old WAC with the MWC teams included that tcu wants to join now. Rossley beat tcu twice at least.

I'd hire back Rossley as head coach before I'd hire Bennett as head coach from their pre SMU resumes alone. After 3-21 at SMU, Bennett and Copeland will most likely be HISTORY after next season.

<small>[ 01-02-2004, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: PlanoStang ]</small>

[Johnny Rock]

Let's nip this in the rear right now....the blame for SMU'S lack of success does not rest with coaching. Few of us realize that point, but many still do not. It is unfortunate that Turner, Copeland, and the Board believe that hiring a new coach every five years will turn SMU into a competitive Division 1-A football team. I have said this, along with a few others on this board, before and I will continue to say it until 'real' changes are made. SMU will never be successful in football until it changes its athletic model. Recruiting a community college QB does not cut it. Implement easier academic majors and courses ala TCU, Miami (Fla.), Texas, etc. and lower the academic standards to the bare NCAA minimum, take a few partial qualifiers every year ala the whole WAC, recruit a few JUCO players every year, and recruit the hell out of DISD and you have the makings for a winning football team. SMU'S current road will lead them nowhere, i.e., the last ten years, and we will be hard pressed to have enough people to attend our games to qualify for Division 1-A status. If SMU does not want to take the necessary steps to be successful, then that is fine. But the current state of SMU football is embarressing for everyone and is a complete joke. For those of you 'half full kind of people' answer me a few questions...how many current State Top 100 recruits as listed in the Dallas Morning News does SMU have commited? More than Cavan's classes? How many D/FW area recruits recruits have we lost out to Tulsa alone? Who are we going to beat next year? OSU? Texas Tech? TCU? UTEP? Do you get my point? Wake up people...our football program is going nowhere until 'real' changes are made.

[PlanoStang]

You're close J.R., actually the answer is D. all of the above. Coaching does matter. We do need to relax our admission standards to the NCAA rules for Div. I-A, or sell Ford Stadium to the H.P.I.S.D.

[Stallion]

JR as the one who coined the Model argument about 5 years ago-even I think we've come about 80% toward what I think is a fair Model that will allow us to compete in CUSA. Really, based on Bennett's PUBLIC STATEMENT that they have created a curiculm that will allow them to take more JUCOs and that he intends to take 3-4 a year in the future we may be there but pardon me if I don't give them the benefit of the doubt just yet after the "duplicity" that has been floated by the althletic department (ie the "Silent Commitment") The key which I will be interested to follow next year during recruiting is to see whether SMU will allow its coaches to recruit a significant slice of the JUCO talent base. Recruiting Bobby Chase who I think actually was fully qualified in August and a couple of 3rd tier JUCOs QB who were probably in JUCO because of lack of opportunity rather than academic issues does not put SMU on an equal playing field with the TCUs, BUs, TTs etc who have loaded up on highly prized JC players. If Bennett truly had full rein to recruiting the JC talent base this year which I'm sure he didn't which I think he admitted he definitely would have gone after a few linemen to shore up one of the worst offensive lines in the country. But there was not another position other than QB which had a single JC players listing interest in SMU. On the other hand there were about 7 JUCO QBs listing interest in SMU-clearly Bennett's hands were still somewhat tied. I think the changes made circa 2000 will make SMU much more competive by 2005. I think the apparent changes made this year if it truly means SMU will go after a significant slice of the JUCO talent base will make SMU even more competitive by 2006. 0-12 was largely the result of the discarded Pye Model. Heck Rossly had 3 One win seasons under that ridiculous Model. The inability to offer early scholarships and the visitation restriction that a player couldn't visit until he had been accepted by the university were crippling restrictions. All of Cavan's full recruiting classes and the senior and junior classes this year were the result of that asinine system.

<small>[ 01-02-2004, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: Stallion ]</small>

[PerunaPunch]

Uh oh, Stallions is making sense again. Time to get my medication.

One other thing... I would classify Bennett as stubborn (which is probably a good trait in a head coach), but he's also a smart guy. I think we will all see a philosophical change in the offense next year. Bennett's desire to win is the only thing that won't change.

[Johnny Rock]

Well said Stallion. The next few recruiting classes will tell the story.