C-USA & FB Recruiting

[RGV Pony]

I know we've got this year to go in the WAC, but I'm wondering if/when our long-term recruiting strategy will change. Does anyone know who is in charge of recruiting Louisiana? The same as E. Texas? The reason for this is damn near every HS kid in New Orleans goes to a private high school, which should mean more qualifiers (I've put one through myself), and not everyone can play for LSU. This leaves Tulane, which will get some but let's face it-not everyone wants to stay home, and in the Crescent City it's often cooler to go somewhere else to play football than Tulane if it's not LSU. This being the case, and with the Ponies being in that conference, I'd like to think we will soon have another door open for recruiting. From the looks of things so far, we haven't recruited Lousiana much in the last couple of years. How did Viloria wind up at SMU?

Conceivably, this would also open up other possibilities for non-conference games...UL-Lafayette, for instance. Or Southern U.

[Uncle Morty]

Why in the name of Heaven would we want non-conference games with U-LaLa, or Southern? Is Southern even a 1-A program? If you are going to schedule 1-AA teams, there should be several much closer.

[RGV Pony]

Southern's in the same conference as Grambling, which makes them I-AA. ULL & the like, for now, provide a valuable asset: w's. Where the teams are located plays an important role. For an easy example, LSU can't for the life of them schedule Tx A&M. Why? Because A&M doesn't want to open doors to recruiting East & SE Tx for LSU. If we have to schedule I-AA teams, or lesser Div. I teams, it should be for a reason (W's or recruiting). Wonder why Tenn. women's basketball agrees to play at TCU? Anybody on this board knows it's not because of the ambiance of Cowtown. It's because they like the players they get from Duncanville, and want more of them.

[CoxSMU]

It's a good idea, but LSU gets all the five-star talent that comes out of New Orleans. Miami gets a few every few years and then the rest of them usually go to Tulane, some to Ole Miss(Eli), and then the rest usually play for Southern or Grambling. The ones that would actually help SMU all go to LSU or other SEC schools. Nice idea, but I hate to say it, there is no way in hell we can compete with LSU or Miami, especially in New Orleans..

I did like, however, how Bennett went in to Oklahoma last year. We're closer to Oklahoma and I think we could land a couple of three-star guys out of the year every year or two...

[BigEasyPony]

I think SMU can go into Louisiana and steal a few guys every year. I don't think SMU would have much success for the TP Top 16 kids, but there are a lot of 2nd and 3rd tier guys that regularly go to schools other than LSU. Further, SMU really wouldn't be competing against LSU for recruits, but they can compete with Tulane quite favorably.

[Frog81]

There's no reason that you can't get at least a couple out of Louisiana. TCU started recruiting in Louisiana since joining CUSA, and we've gotten a couple each year.

[CoxSMU]

Shreveport is only LA city that I think would be worthwhile. I grew up in LA and I watched the recruiting scene growing up. Evangel in Shreveport and the Public schools there usally give out pretty good tealent.

But trying to go into New Orleans or Baton Rouge wouldn't bring the results that I think everyone thinks. Vic Viloria was a nice exception. I may be wrong, but didn't he get an offer from Auburn? My point is that Viloria was a great pickup, but most times than not, that player would go to Auburn....

Like I said before, I think Oklahoma would be a better option. It's closer and IMO, probably a more reasonable option. Competing against OSU over some Oklahoma talent is, I think, a more formadable task than competing with Ole Miss, Auburn, Alabama, and LSU....And even sometimes Miami...

[buspen]

We don't hit Oklahoma hard enough, OU is cherry picking the entire nation, OSU is reaping the benefits of the top line recruits omitted by OU's national vision, that leaves only Tulsa to compete with, and that is no comparison looking at school, education, location and facilities. The competition is not near as fierce and there are a lot of quality players left on the table. It seems there is an arrogance about TX players when the quality is equal across the Red River.

[MizterTea]

Originally posted by buspen:
We don't hit Oklahoma hard enough, OU is cherry picking the entire nation, OSU is reaping the benefits of the top line recruits omitted by OU's national vision, that leaves only Tulsa to compete with, and that is no comparison looking at school, education, location and facilities. The competition is not near as fierce and there are a lot of quality players left on the table. It seems there is an arrogance about TX players when the quality is equal across the Red River.

you don't know what you are talking about - OK is not cherry pickig the entire nation... they are cherry picking TEXAS

and, while you may have some good quality players in OK... there cannot possibly be as many there as there are HERE ! - first off, Texas had more nationaly recognized HS football programs... but that aside - TEXAS HAS MORE PEOPLE (try 3.4 M to 21.3 M!!!) - so assumeing similar progrmas and population distribution... TEXAS should have SEVEN TIMES the number of quality players than OKLAHOMA

there are three D1 OK schools - there are not SEVEN times as many D1 Texas shcolols (even if Mack Brown takes the recurits of two schools_

[Stallion]

I do think there might be something to the theory that Texas is overrecruited. I think part of overrecruiting Texas results from schools like SMU, Baylor, TCU, Rice and others have been too lazy and/or cheap to recruit outside of Texas. When you look across the nation the Texas schools are some of the few that don't recruit out of state. We have Tulane and Tulsa consistently coming into Texas-this year they got about 5 each from Texas-why can't we cheery-pick from Louisiana and Oklahoma? But that's the way Texas schools have done it for years. In the old days it worked because prior to 1980 few left Texas except for the superlative Arkansas and OU programs. But considering the obvious talent in Texas has it worked since? I think Texas schools have underacheivecd since the 1980s and I think much of it is for this reason. The one school that tries hard-UT-has had a heck of alot of trouble closing the deal. But hey they got a Heisman Trophy with Rickey Williams name on it that shows it can pay off. We've had our successes in the past too like Emanuel Tolbert, Reggie Dupard, Russell Carter, Dante Womack

<small>[ 01-20-2004, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: Stallion ]</small>

[MizterTea]

I will say this... I have a friend in Georgia, who follows recruiting and he mentioned that he say SMU was getting some talent from there - so we are hitting on a few states. So I agree that we can go elsewhere and get some talent that might not get selected by the big state college of the month

but on the subject of Texas schools being lazy or cheep to leave TX - remember this, if a coach (ANY COACH) in Texas loses with NON-TEXAS recruits, the FIRST thing the alums will hang him on is... "well, he didn't even recurit in Texas!" (in fact I believe that statement was made by Cave-in by some people on one of these boards)

[buspen]

Mizter T, thanks for the math lesson you are just proving my point to an extent. Due to the size of the population TX is over recruited. I know of several players from my home town in Oklahoma that had to beg for a D1 scholarship only to end up all conference in WAC, Sunbelt, MAC these and the ones not even given an opportunity are overlooked, because of the same admitted bias that you have. As for quality and 10 times the number of equal players look at Lehman from OU, Butkus winner, White Heisman Cody finalist for Hendricks, all Oklahoma products but I don't see 10 times the number of TX players as finalists.

[Southland]

Originally posted by Stallion:
I do think there might be something to the theory that Texas is overrecruited. I think part of overrecruiting Texas results from schools like SMU, Baylor, TCU, Rice and others have been too lazy and/or cheap to recruit outside of Texas. When you look across the nation the Texas schools are some of the few that don't recruit out of state. We have Tulane and Tulsa consistently coming into Texas-this year they got about 5 each from Texas-why can't we cheery-pick from Louisiana and Oklahoma? But that's the way Texas schools have done it for years. In the old days it worked because prior to 1980 few left Texas except for the superlative Arkansas and OU programs. But considering the obvious talent in Texas has it worked since? I think Texas schools have underacheivecd since the 1980s and I think much of it is for this reason. The one school that tries hard-UT-has had a heck of alot of trouble closing the deal. But hey they got a Heisman Trophy with Rickey Williams name on it that shows it can pay off. We've had our successes in the past too like Emanuel Tolbert, Reggie Dupard, Russell Carter, Dante Womack

What would be ideal is to become more competitive for local high school talent, and recruit JC players nationally.

We're a long way from being a national recruiter; maybe start with the adjacent states that SMU will visit every other year, and grow from there.

[MizterTea]

Originally posted by buspen:
As for quality and 10 times the number of equal players look at Lehman from OU, Butkus winner, White Heisman Cody finalist for Hendricks, all Oklahoma products but I don't see 10 times the number of TX players as finalists.

I guess working with and playing for the best coaching staff in D1 football had NOTHING to do with these players' successes...

I hope that you did not a product of the math or science depts. at SMU. Assuming that both states (TX & OK) have equal HS programs and are not havens for retirees (a la Arizona or Florida) - then based on population alone, there should be approximately SEVEN TIMES as many D1 football players from Texas, because there are seven times as many people.

I said NOTHING about seven times as many OUTSTANDING players... because there are only four Heiman finalists every year - and there are factors like college coaching and schedule and team production (not to mention the power of the media). Besides, once they pick a college they start on that track - its not like SMU can recruit them away from OU or OSU once they become good.

I personnally like the idea of picking up some of the out of state kids who don't have as many options as players from Texas. (see my second post) - but I was pointing out that your inital arguement and logic were flawed - and that based on a D1 school to player ratio Texas has more talent. Unfortunately - every college in the country comes here to recruit, so there are more actual colleges with a recruiting presence here than there are Texas colleges.

Plus - never forget the smaller programs that get a few prizes (read: SAM HOUSTON STATE)

[Stallion]

also don't forget about the NTSU's of the world who just got a STUD in Jemario Thomas when he realized he was going to have trouble qualifying. That's how they got some of their best players like Jonas Buckles and Kennedy too. You know there is a void in Texas of in state schools that can offer partial or non-qualifiers and still charge low in-state tuition so they could pay their way the first year. I'm not saying that NTSU has gone overboard with this tactic but they could build a real powerhouse if they wanted to be known as the Fresno of Texas.