Ominous Signs for Big 12

[EastStang]

UT has had more people leave it, than its left on the side of the road. Arkansas got sick of UT's money complaints and went to the SEC. A&M and Missouri got offers from the SEC and jumped to get away from UT. Colorado left its rivals for the PAC-12 to get away from UT. Nebraska left its OU history behind to go north to the Big Ten. Yeah, $$$$ were involved, but part of those $$$$ were because they didn't have to deal with UT wanting their $$$$. UT is like that locker-room cancer player who messes up the success of a team because they just make life miserable day in and day out. If the rest of Big XII could figure out a way to make money without UT in their wallet they would. When UT threatened to leave the Big XII, the other teams should have said AMF, added the best AAC and MWC teams they could add and move on. UT should be an independent like ND and thus not beholden to anyone.

[East Coast Mustang]

^ Well said. Only reason I don't think Texas would consider Pac-12 (or B1G) is because they would have to cede their top dog status, which is obviously huge for them.

[max the wonder dog]

The bright spot in all this is the marginally less annoying Aggies, with their SEC luster, leaving the Whorns in the dust.

[WordUpBU]

UT has had more people leave it, than its left on the side of the road. Arkansas got sick of UT's money complaints and went to the SEC.

Arkansas sided with UT on any money issues. Both schools benefited from getting the SWC to stop sharing money. Broyles said after the fact he thought UT and A&M would eventually follow them. Hardly leaving because of UT.

A&M and Missouri got offers from the SEC and jumped to get away from UT.

A&M left to get away from big brother. Mizzou left after OU opened it's mouth about looking around as Mizzou didn't want two years of uncertainty after almost being left out in 2010.

Colorado left its rivals for the PAC-12 to get away from UT.

Colorado moved when it looked UT was coming too. Get your facts right.

Nebraska left its OU history behind to go north to the Big Ten.

Nebraska voted with UT on almost every issue. Look at the Omaha paper's article "The Big Ten Decision" and you see how it went down. NU didn't even start looking until it was revealed that 7 schools were looking to leave and then only an idiot doesn't look around. Straight from the chancellor's mouth on all of it.

Yeah, $$$$ were involved, but part of those $$$$ were because they didn't have to deal with UT wanting their $$$$. UT is like that locker-room cancer player who messes up the success of a team because they just make life miserable day in and day out. If the rest of Big XII could figure out a way to make money without UT in their wallet they would. When UT threatened to leave the Big XII, the other teams should have said AMF, added the best AAC and MWC teams they could add and move on. UT should be an independent like ND and thus not beholden to anyone.

You think UT is saying "we want our way or we leave!"???? Get real.

2010- Missouri Gov flirts with the Big Ten causing CU to reach out to the PAC in December. P16 is pitched to UT in January after UT shot them down on a 12 team league with only UT and CU joining. UT fearing a tv deal without Denver and St Louis/Nebraska's brand listens. UT turns back within 48 hours of the tv partners assuring them the tv deal would remain competitive, with or without the LHN which wasn't expected to be a bank buster at the time. According to Tech's president at the time all 4 offers are contingent on UT coming along.

2011- A&M leaves and OU talks about leaving. UT refuses to give up their network and OU/OSU aren't good enough on their own to push the PAC to 14. Mizzou leaves and TCU/WVU join. UT does do some contingency planning (ACC) in case OU does leave but it clearly isn't option 1.

Really the only school that publicly whined and tried to get their money at the expense of other schools was A&M. UT wasn't benevolent or anything but they certainly weren't looking to scrape every cent from the rest of the league. UT turned down the forgotten 5 offer and agreed to equal revenue sharing which A&M never did. A&M went so far as to publicly whine about the extra money that UT/OU turned down when they had a foot out the door the whole time.

I don't understand the aggie love here. They screwed you guys over every bit as much as UT and cheated worse than the pony excess group did and got no reprimand yet UT is the team you hate more?

[East Coast Mustang]

The bright spot in all this is the marginally less annoying Aggies, with their SEC luster, leaving the Whorns in the dust.

Yep.

[East Coast Mustang]

I don't understand the aggie love here. They screwed you guys over every bit as much as UT and cheated worse than the pony excess group did and got no reprimand yet UT is the team you hate more?

Hating Aggie is like hating China. They're so different from us in terms of culture that it's not even really personal. I live in Dallas and literally am friends/acquaintances with no one who went to A&M. I know a ton of TCU, Tech, and Texas folks though, and I rank them in this order (with one being the most obnoxious):

1. Texas
1a. TCU
Distant third- Tech

[CenTXpony]

I don't understand the aggie love here. They screwed you guys over every bit as much as UT and cheated worse than the pony excess group did and got no reprimand yet UT is the team you hate more?

Hating Aggie is like hating China. They're so different from us in terms of culture that it's not even really personal. I live in Dallas and literally am friends/acquaintances with no one who went to A&M. I know a ton of TCU, Tech, and Texas folks though, and I rank them in this order (with one being the most obnoxious):

1. Texas
1a. TCU
Distant third- Tech

1. Tech
2. Texas
3. TCU

Honorable mention: Baylor... I don't live far from wacko so I get their sports radio show often... if you heard some of their callers you'd feel the same way...

[Stallion]

There is so much Texas-hating nonsense on this board. You guys jump all over yourself trying to explain why 6 schools left when UT has never been the initiator of any of these moves including the breakup of the SWC and the Big 12. Arkansas and A&M were headed out the door to the SEC first. A&M was working a deal to leave for the SEC well before the Big 12 was even negotiated. There's very little facts to dispute that, The only times UT has sought to move-first to the Big 12 and then to the PAC they have sought to retain a Southwest/Texas base to their Division unlike the Faggies, Nebraska, Arkansas, Missouri, etc. All those schools left for more cash bottom-line. somehow you make Texas into the villain and forget the traitors who deserted. The SWC would have folded sooner or later but Arkansas and A&M were the ones leading the parade

[Treadway21]

Poor texss. A and M and Arky wronged the poor dears.

[gostangs]

stallion for a guy who is right on so many things, you have always had a blind spot when it comes to the horns.

It is their whoring around that caused so many to be FORCED to look - if you were Nebraska, Colorado, and especially A&M, and you see their behavior and imagine yourself sitting there after they leave trying to pick up the pieces - you would be negligent not to do something first. When you are the bell cow of the conference it is your responsibility to keep it together - like OSU and Michigan do in the Big 10. You don't take your ball and hog it (longhorn network) and you don't flirt with every sailor that comes through port and expect your boring husband to sit there and watch. They didn't think anyone would have the stones to jump ship without UT ok-ing it - and they grossly misjudged the situation. I am close to many high up folks in UT and in a weak moment they will admit the A&M deal was their screwup.

i dont hate them - i kind of pity them. They thought they were hosting a party for the cool kids and everyone would thank them - and they all went down the street except for the ones with no choices. Nobody wants to add the huge media markets of lubbock, waco, and lawrence kansas. And the really crazy desperate move was west virginia - that was just nutty.

[Stallion]

Sorry no link but this part of a long transcript from a well researched and widely discussed article about the breakup of SWC that I believe appeared in DMN or SA paper showing A&M was trying to get out of the SWC and into the SEC as early as 1990:

That left the SEC as a possible relocation target for the Longhorns — until Berdahl let it be known that UT wasn't interested because of the league's undistinguished academic profile. Only two of 12 schools in the SEC were American Association of Universities members and UT officials saw admissions standards to SEC schools as too lenient.

"We were quite interested in raising academic standards," Berdahl says. "And the Southeastern Conference had absolutely no interest in that."

A&M, meanwhile, had no qualms about flirting with the SEC. From the late 1980s on, administrators from A&M and LSU had several informal conversations about the Aggies joining the SEC. After talks with Miami broke down in 1990, the SEC's courtship with A&M grew more serious.

LSU athletic director Joe Dean telephoned his A&M counterpart John David Crow to discuss A&M's candidacy.

"Joe was going to sponsor us, do what was needed to be done," Crow said. "They would have liked to have had us."

At the NCAA Convention in Dallas in January 1993, Dean reportedly met with Dodds and Crow to discuss a possible two-school move. Dean later told reporters that he believed UT was "headed north" — to the Big Eight or Big Ten — while A&M was the "most logical addition to the SEC."

In response to reports of the meeting, a representative of A&M president William Mobley told reporters there had been no offer and "Dr. Mobley is firmly committed to the Southwest Conference."

But in August 1993, A&M regents chairman Margraves flew to LSU for his son's graduation, taking time to meet with LSU chancellor William Davis to discuss the possible migration of A&M — and Houston — into the SEC. Margraves later said he came away from the trip favoring a move.

The right fit

Despite the repeated wooing from both sides, however, the relationship was never consummated. A&M administrators, apparently fearful of a backlash if the school made the first move solo, held back. UT wasn't interested and a suitable partner from the SWC couldn't be found. The SEC, meanwhile, backed off on expansion.
"I don't think the powers that be wanted us to move alone, leave the Southwest Conference and its tradition,"

[East Coast Mustang]

Update- West Virginia now has the highest rated class in the Big 12 on Rivals, coming in at #24, behind such powerhouse programs as Duke, Kentucky, and Boston College. That might be impressive if we were talking about basketball.

14 commitments and four 4-stars

https://rivals.yahoo.com/westvirginia/f ... k4rQ0eu5B4

We are #60 with ten commits- P5 programs Utah and Virginia also have ten commitments and are ranked behind us. Pony Up!

[ponyinNC]

Whatever your take on the Texas issue is -

You cannot argue that the B12 has lost more schools recently than any other conference. That is just a FACT. You cannot argue that losing major programs left and right (Texas A&M, Mizzou, Colorado, Nebraska), and replacing them with TCU (Big East) and WVU (Big East) is an equal trade off. It is not - and if you say it is, you are just a huge B12 homer, and you have blinders on.

You cannot argue that TAMU has surpassed UT in terms of publicity, status, recruiting, wins, conference status, competition, and any other measurable save academics. Fact. (and i hate TAMU, btw)

I love that Baylor is king of the b12 right now - that honestly makes me happy. But the conference is the weakest P5, even thought their $$ share is better because there are less mouths to feed.

[gostangs]

Head to head the big 12 is still stronger in football than the ACC. Just my opinion.

[East Coast Mustang]

Head to head the big 12 is still stronger in football than the ACC. Just my opinion.

Strongly disagree.