Ominous Signs for Big 12

[sbsmith]

Head to head the big 12 is still stronger in football than the ACC. Just my opinion.

Sagarin agrees with your opinion.

[WordUpBU]

Head to head the big 12 is still stronger in football than the ACC. Just my opinion.

Strongly disagree.

Big 12 average computer rankings (the ones used by the BCS)

Past 5 Years with current members:
Big 12- 39.78
ACC- 52.84

FSU and Clemson are top ten caliber right now and Louisville and VT are probably top 25 caliber despite VT's annual disappointment tour. Outside of that it's pretty limited for them. Only other program that seems to have any near term momentum is Miami and it's not like they are some world beater after scraping by in several games prior to the FSU powderkeg dropping on them.

[East Coast Mustang]

Clemson would have won the Big 12 easily last year. Hell, Duke might have.

[Stallion]

look forward 2, 3 or 4 years though. I realize the Big 12 has been relatively strong in the past. They won't be in the future without better recruiting. It doesn't always show up immediately

[WordUpBU]

Clemson would have won the Big 12 easily last year. Hell, Duke might have.

1- Get real. Baylor, OU, and OSU would have given them all they wanted.

Duke struggled with crappy Wake, Troy, UNC, Memphis, and others. Scoring lots of points on A&M's crappy D last year doesn't make them good.

Clemson would have been in the hunt but remember that Venables LEFT Oklahoma after his defenses were getting blitzkreiged by the B12 offenses and he was going to be replace by Mike Stoops. Also Clemson isn't without it's warts last year. Close games vs crappy BC, NC State, and being blown out twice by the only elite teams they played in the regular season isn't some calling card. Ohio State and UGA were overrated but good wins. Clemson would be in the hunt but the schedule would have been a step up from NC State, Wake, and the sisters of the blind.

2- Even if you can argue that successfully it is ONE year. The ACC sucks, has sucked, and will continue to suck. It's always been 2-3 good programs there and then a mile of cupcakes.

[East Coast Mustang]

Clemson would have won the Big 12 easily last year. Hell, Duke might have.

1- Get real. Baylor, OU, and OSU would have given them all they wanted.

Duke struggled with crappy Wake, Troy, UNC, Memphis, and others. Scoring lots of points on A&M's crappy D last year doesn't make them good.

Clemson would have been in the hunt but remember that Venables LEFT Oklahoma after his defenses were getting blitzkreiged by the B12 offenses and he was going to be replace by Mike Stoops. Also Clemson isn't without it's warts last year. Close games vs crappy BC, NC State, and being blown out twice by the only elite teams they played in the regular season isn't some calling card. Ohio State and UGA were overrated but good wins. Clemson would be in the hunt but the schedule would have been a step up from NC State, Wake, and the sisters of the blind.

2- Even if you can argue that successfully it is ONE year. The ACC sucks, has sucked, and will continue to suck. It's always been 2-3 good programs there and then a mile of cupcakes.

Haha, ok, the ACC sucks. Nevermind that FSU won a national championship last year. Yes, they're not the SEC and they've had a few down years in the past (like when Wake won the confernece) but you guys won the Big 12 last year and lost to Central Florida so perhaps 2013 wasn't exactly a banner year for the Big 12 either. It's tough to tell just how good Baylor was last year because they play such a joke of an OOC schedule.

Bottom line you lost two elite programs (A&M and Nebraska) and two decent programs (CU and Mizzou) in recent years and replaced them with two ho-hum programs in WVU and TCU. From a football standpoint the ACC may have upgraded by losing Maryland and replacing them with Louisville. You can keep pretending that everything is fine and rosy in the Big 12 but right now it's bleeding members and falling behind in recruiting...according to Rivals last year, OU signed the best class in the Big 12 and was just #15 overall...behind three ACC schools (FSU, Clemson, and Miami). In 2013, they were also the best in the Big 12 but #15 overall. Like Stallion said, that will eventually trickle down to on-field performance. I'm not sure how you can argue that the Big 12 isn't the fifth best power conference today.

[WordUpBU]

Clemson would have won the Big 12 easily last year. Hell, Duke might have.

1- Get real. Baylor, OU, and OSU would have given them all they wanted.

Duke struggled with crappy Wake, Troy, UNC, Memphis, and others. Scoring lots of points on A&M's crappy D last year doesn't make them good.

Clemson would have been in the hunt but remember that Venables LEFT Oklahoma after his defenses were getting blitzkreiged by the B12 offenses and he was going to be replace by Mike Stoops. Also Clemson isn't without it's warts last year. Close games vs crappy BC, NC State, and being blown out twice by the only elite teams they played in the regular season isn't some calling card. Ohio State and UGA were overrated but good wins. Clemson would be in the hunt but the schedule would have been a step up from NC State, Wake, and the sisters of the blind.

2- Even if you can argue that successfully it is ONE year. The ACC sucks, has sucked, and will continue to suck. It's always been 2-3 good programs there and then a mile of cupcakes.

Haha, ok, the ACC sucks. Nevermind that FSU won a national championship last year.

Last I checked a conference is more than one team. Even with Auburn spiking the average the FSU SOS last year according to sagarin was the weakest of any P5 champion and ranked a terrible 62nd nationally. Baylor (48), OU (32), OSU (22), Texas (11), Tech (42), and the rest of the Big 12 faced more solid teams. This is even the case in a down year for the Big 12 and an up year for the ACC.

The Big Ten also didn't do well with MSU (51) and Ohio State (58). For comparison's sake SMU's SOS ranked 67th. FSU was barely ahead of you guys despite facing UF in noncon, the ACCCG vs Duke, and the National title game. That is the product of a cupcake league. FSU was the best team but the ACC isn't a tough league past the top 2 teams. Miami played no one in noncon and squeaked by a Florida team that lost to Ga Southern.

Yes, they're not the SEC and they've had a few down years in the past (like when Wake won the confernece) but you guys won the Big 12 last year and lost to Central Florida so perhaps 2013 wasn't exactly a banner year for the Big 12 either. It's tough to tell just how good Baylor was last year because they play such a joke of an OOC schedule.

We dropped the ball against UCF. Double the usual number of penalties on offense killed a few drives and a QB that could exploit our liabilities at corner & FS cost us a 10 point loss we should have won to a team that unlike Clemson almost beat South Carolina and was unbeaten otherwise.

As for our SOS last year, we played 9 Big 12 games, a game against a MAC bowl team, a game against a team that beat Arkansas the year before, and we should have played you guys but got a 6 month notice on your bailing on us.

Bottom line you lost two elite programs (A&M and Nebraska) and two decent programs (CU and Mizzou) in recent years and replaced them with two ho-hum programs in WVU and TCU.

A&M is not an elite program. KSU had a better run in the Big 12 than A&M did. The aggies have had 2 really good years but it's not like they are Bama, Nebraska, Oregon, or Penn State.

Also calling CU decent is laughable. They make WVU and TCU's last 2 years look like the 1950's era OU sooners.

WVU is very high on the all time wins list and gets ratings on par with whatever CU, MU, or A&M did. TCU as you know has been pretty solid for the past decade.

From a football standpoint the ACC may have upgraded by losing Maryland and replacing them with Louisville.

And still has 10 other crap programs to drag them down.

You can keep pretending that everything is fine and rosy in the Big 12 but right now it's bleeding members and falling behind in recruiting...according to Rivals last year, OU signed the best class in the Big 12 and was just #15 overall...behind three ACC schools (FSU, Clemson, and Miami).

OU promptly fired several staffers who had become lazy on the recruiting trail. OU is going to be fine.

In 2013, they were also the best in the Big 12 but #15 overall.

Classes are usually determined the summer after a kid's sophomore year, which for that year would have had OU with the fired guys, a porous defense, and 2 years of watching somebody else win the league. Let's see how this upcoming year turns out as it's the first one the retooled staff would have put together completely.

Like Stallion said, that will eventually trickle down to on-field performance. I'm not sure how you can argue that the Big 12 isn't the fifth best power conference today.

On-field performance: We are ahead of them and the B1G, possibly the PAC too in the past few seasons. Other than KU there hasn't been one consistently awful team which cannot be said for the rest of the P5.

Ratings: When you compare the top 6 appearances per team (where the money is) the Big 12 ranks only behind the B1G and SEC.

Budget: The average Big 12 budget (even without UT) exceed that of either the ACC or the PAC.

Hoops: Our RPI is 2nd highest over the past 5 years

Money: Our teams will be making more than the ACC or PAC from league deals as well as seperate tv deal for remaining inventory.

[Topper]

Why waste so much time arguing with a Baylor agitprop who obviously has way too much time on her hands? I assume she is a woman because she obviously needs the last word on everything no matter how irrational and emotion driven her point of view.

[East Coast Mustang]

Why waste so much time arguing with a Baylor agitprop who obviously has way too much time on her hands? I assume she is a woman because she obviously needs the last word on everything no matter how irrational and emotion driven her point of view.

Good point...

Clemson beat Ohio State but OSU was OVERRATED!

We would've beaten UCF if we didn't commit so many penalties!

We played a MAC BOWL TEAM last year!

Our SOS would have been better if 5-7 SMU from the AAC hadn't dropped us on short notice!

Miami barely beat Florida who lost to an FCS school! (Nevermind the fact Miami played them in week 2, and Florida suffered about a million injuries to starters in between that game and the end of the season)

OU was finishing 15th in recruiting in previous years because they had lazy recruiters that they fired but now they're going to be fine! (Like I said earlier, analyzing team rankings in July is a waste of time- but they're not exactly tearing it up at #44 on Rivals)

But hey, the Big 12 is the best conference in America, they're killing it in recruiting, and A&M will soon regret leaving, as will Nebraska and Mizzou. And Texas will never leave because they love all of their little friends in Waco, Ames, and Manhattan soooo much!!

[EastStang]

Living in ACC country, I have to admit, I'm not impressed with its product. UNC, WF, UVA, NCS all subpar football programs. Louisville vs. Maryland is an upgrade (because Maryland really stunk). U and GT hot and cold. Duke now respectable, but up until last year was a joke. There are three class programs in the ACC, FSU, Clemson and VT. After that its probably on par with the AAC. As far as the Big XII, they have nothing to brag about. WVU, KU, ISU are not world beaters. TT, KSU, BU, TCU are hot and cold. Prior to Briles, BU was awful. Heck they barely beat us in the year we were 0-11. OSU, OU and UT are the name programs in that conference. I'd give it a nod over the ACC simply because the bottom tier of the ACC is so bad. If the ACC lost FSU and Clemson, they'd be no better than the AAC in my opinion. I've long thought that the Big XII would have been smart to grab those to programs and GT as a move to punish the SEC for moving into Texas and would have also had the effect of gutting the ACC. You would also pick up Florida TV market and the Atlanta market.

[Baylorbears11]

Wait, there are people who seriously think the ACC is a better a football conference than the Big 12?

Outside of FSU, Clemson, UL, Miami, V-Tech and maybe G-a Tech there isn't a single ACC program that is anywhere close to quality you find in the Big 12, PAC, or SEC. The ACC has great programs in it sure, it's just not deep.

[East Coast Mustang]

Wait, there are people who seriously think the ACC is a better a football conference than the Big 12?

Outside of FSU, Clemson, UL, Miami, V-Tech and maybe G-a Tech there isn't a single ACC program that is anywhere close to quality you find in the Big 12, PAC, or SEC. The ACC has great programs in it sure, it's just not deep.

Virginia, Pitt, and UNC aren't "anywhere close to the quality" of programs like Kansas, Washington State, Vanderbilt, or Kentucky? Ok...

[CenTXpony]

Wait, there are people who seriously think the ACC is a better a football conference than the Big 12?

Outside of FSU, Clemson, UL, Miami, V-Tech and maybe G-a Tech there isn't a single ACC program that is anywhere close to quality you find in the Big 12, PAC, or SEC. The ACC has great programs in it sure, it's just not deep.

Virginia, Pitt, and UNC aren't "anywhere close to the quality" of programs like Kansas, Washington State, Vanderbilt, or Kentucky? Ok...

Colorado is a mighty fine program.

[Stallion]

Classic Example of my "Recruiting is relative to your competition" theme

Aggy was predicted to finish 6th in the SEC West at the recent SEC Kickoff Meeting. Aggies are recruiting well-so does everybody else on their conference schedule

[East Coast Mustang]

Classic Example of my "Recruiting is relative to your competition" theme

Aggy was predicted to finish 6th in the SEC West at the recent SEC Kickoff Meeting. Aggies are recruiting well-so does everybody else on their conference schedule

SEC once again crushing it this year- four of the top five and six of the top ten...

https://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecrui ... g/teamrank

Breakdown of the top 15:

SEC - 8
ACC - 4
B1G- 1 (Penn St.)
PAC - 1 (USC)
Notre Dame