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SMU to Big XII - the Mack connection??

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Re: SMU to Big XII - the Mack connection??

Postby Big12Mustang » Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:54 pm

StallionsModelT wrote:
Big12Mustang wrote:
sbsmith wrote:[quote="West Coast Johnny"]Good lord. Win a game first before sending in your application.



We could be undefeated and that application would still get rejected. The Big 12 isn't adding any G5 schools.


Not true.


I could see the Big 12 adding G5 schools but they won't be SMU. Cincy, Memphis, UConn, UCF, and USF are higher on the totem pole for the Big 12 than we are. TCU's presence makes SMU an absolute zero percent chance.[/quote]

Same argument for TCU. "Oh we already cover DFW with Bevo, Tech, Baylor". SEC is dominating DFW ratings by a huge margin, having a team in Dallas with great basketball and football would help in bringing interest. And that extra DFW game all those teams would have is pretty appealing.
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Re: SMU to Big XII - the Mack connection??

Postby sbsmith » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:02 pm

StallionsModelT wrote:I could see the Big 12 adding G5 schools but they won't be SMU. Cincy, Memphis, UConn, UCF, and USF are higher on the totem pole for the Big 12 than we are. TCU's presence makes SMU an absolute zero percent chance.



The problem with all those schools is they don't make the Big 12 any money nor do they garner the Big 12 any prestige. Their TV partners aren't paying for schools that no one watches (which is the entire G5).
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Re: SMU to Big XII - the Mack connection??

Postby Water Pony » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:03 pm

StallionsModelT wrote:The only long term sustainable solution for the football program in P5 inclusion. SMU cannot continue to operate outside of it. So whoever can get us closer to that goal I'm all for it.


This is the right question ... how does SMU reengineer its return to higher echelons of College FB? Given our current realities and results as a non-member of the P5, what options does SMU have?

To summarize most posts here and in the media, it is assumed that we have three things working for us ... huge sums of money, a great location in Dallas, Texas and a dated history of playing at highest level.

Whether Mack Brown is the right coach is premature. If we are able to define the right path for our return, it is more than which coach we pursue and hire. It seems that we need to huddle up and ask one question. Are we prepared to spend $30m or more in the next four years to change the perception of SMU Football with a big splash HC, Coaching Staff and Recruiters, in order to buy our way back, including fielding a winning team and writing checks that fills our stadium, which will make the case that an invitation to Big XII or ACC or whoever wants access to big time Texas football fields is practically a given.

In summary, our only real option is to buy our way back. If this is not an option (which is likely true), anything else is either wishful thinking or will take too long to pull off. Given my affection for non-revenue sports and tradition, I am not advocating for this approach. I am stating the only real option that SMU has. Either we over spend as fast as possible or resign ourselves to the middle of the G5 Pack. That can be answer, but at least we are being honest with ourselves and our situation.
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SMU to Big XII - the Mack connection??

Postby Big12Mustang » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:12 pm

sbsmith wrote:
StallionsModelT wrote:I could see the Big 12 adding G5 schools but they won't be SMU. Cincy, Memphis, UConn, UCF, and USF are higher on the totem pole for the Big 12 than we are. TCU's presence makes SMU an absolute zero percent chance.



The problem with all those schools is they don't make the Big 12 any money nor do they garner the Big 12 any prestige. Their TV partners aren't paying for schools that no one watches (which is the entire G5).


People don't "watch" them because of who they play. People "watch" top P5 teams. No one watches Vanderbilt, Oregon State, Syracuse , etc
People from those cities will watch their team face off against good P5 teams...and they will watch because their team is playing, not to cheer on the other P5
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Re: SMU to Big XII - the Mack connection??

Postby StallionsModelT » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:14 pm

Water Pony wrote:
StallionsModelT wrote:The only long term sustainable solution for the football program in P5 inclusion. SMU cannot continue to operate outside of it. So whoever can get us closer to that goal I'm all for it.


This is the right question ... how does SMU reengineer its return to higher echelons of College FB? Given our current realities and results as a non-member of the P5, what options does SMU have?

To summarize most posts here and in the media, it is assumed that we have three things working for us ... huge sums of money, a great location in Dallas, Texas and a dated history of playing at highest level.

Whether Mack Brown is the right coach is premature. If we are able to define the right path for our return, it is more than which coach we pursue and hire. It seems that we need to huddle up and ask one question. Are we prepared to spend $30m or more in the next four years to change the perception of SMU Football with a big splash HC, Coaching Staff and Recruiters, in order to buy our way back, including fielding a winning team and writing checks that fills our stadium, which will make the case that an invitation to Big XII or ACC or whoever wants access to big time Texas football fields is practically a given.

In summary, our only real option is to buy our way back. If this is not an option (which is likely true), anything else is either wishful thinking or will take too long to pull off. Given my affection for non-revenue sports and tradition, I am not advocating for this approach. I am stating the only real option that SMU has. Either we over spend as fast as possible or resign ourselves to the middle of the G5 Pack. That can be answer, but at least we are being honest with ourselves and our situation.


I think that is a pretty dead on analysis of where we are and where we want to be. Who knows if Mack Brown is our savior but I can tell you that when people around the country hear about what we are willing to spend and the kind of name coaches we would have (Mack Brown and Larry Brown) that at least gets ears perked up. Now combine that with winning, putting out a fun and exciting product with a full stadium, and the added exposure of ESPN with the AAC TV deal and who knows? In 5 years if SMU is consistently one of the top three or four G5 football programs with a Top 20 basketball program then we are positioned well if and when expansion comes around. Right now though its all about POSITIONING ourselves so that if we do win we have the infrastructure in place to be attractive to a P5 conference. All of the pieces are there for SMU. We just have to win and be bold.
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Re: SMU to Big XII - the Mack connection??

Postby ender3 » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:02 pm

If the rumor is true...
it only makes real sense if it is part of a longer term play to get SMU into a P5 conference (there isn't enough money in a non-P5 conference to justify this investment).

If it really is part of a long term strategy...
then that is the sort of thinking out of SMU that we have not seen in decades.

If they truly are thinking this way, something has changed the way SMU operates. Whatever it was, it was even more important than the Larry Brown hire (which, face it, was luck).
I know that is a LOT of "ifs" but if it's true, then the biggest hire for SMU in decades was Rick Hart.
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Re: SMU to Big XII - the Mack connection??

Postby StallionsModelT » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:04 pm

ender3 wrote:If the rumor is true...
it only makes real sense if it is part of a longer term play to get SMU into a P5 conference (there isn't enough money in a non-P5 conference to justify this investment).

If it really is part of a long term strategy...
then that is the sort of thinking out of SMU that we have not seen in decades.

If they truly are thinking this way, something has changed the way SMU operates. Whatever it was, it was even more important than the Larry Brown hire (which, face it, was luck).
I know that is a LOT of "ifs" but if it's true, then the biggest hire for SMU in decades was Rick Hart.



Honestly, I think its desperation. That said, desperation is a hell of a motivating factor.
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Re: SMU to Big XII - the Mack connection??

Postby Smu97186 » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:10 pm

Realignment is done with school popularity in mind, we won't get into the big 12 unless our image grows drastically and we could bring profit to the conference. However, while it could be bias I think we have more presence in big 12 territory than usf, UCF, uconn, and cincy. I don't see tech fans getting excited over a game with usf
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Re: SMU to Big XII - the Mack connection??

Postby StallionsModelT » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:12 pm

Smu97186 wrote:Realignment is done with school popularity in mind, we won't get into the big 12 unless our image grows drastically and we could bring profit to the conference. However, while it could be bias I think we have more presence in big 12 territory than usf, UCF, uconn, and cincy. I don't see tech fans getting excited over a game with usf


TV decides realignment. USF/UCF/UCONN/Memphis represent new markets. We don't.
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Re: SMU to Big XII - the Mack connection??

Postby Stallion » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:14 pm

Its all about the new markets
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Re: SMU to Big XII - the Mack connection??

Postby AusTxPony » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:22 pm

Excuse me, but didn't we make it into the P5 (BCS) for one year. Espn screwed the Big East so back to the G5...but, why were we one of the first schools chosen to go to a BCS Conference? So we have some value I would argue, hence we need a winning HC to get us to the top of the G5 and the Access Bowl and let the chips fall where they may.
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Re: SMU to Big XII - the Mack connection??

Postby Smu97186 » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:23 pm

Stallion wrote:Its all about the new markets

And you really think the big 12 owns the Dallas market right now? It is SEC country and its not even close. I'm not saying we would gain back any of the market, but there's room for the big 12 to grow here
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Re: SMU to Big XII - the Mack connection??

Postby sbsmith » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:27 pm

Smu97186 wrote:And you really think the big 12 owns the Dallas market right now? It is SEC country and its not even close. I'm not saying we would gain back any of the market, but there's room for the big 12 to grow here



You're right which is why the Big 12 needs Bevo and OU to get back to top form ASAP. Short of that, DFW will continue to be SEC Country.
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Re: SMU to Big XII - the Mack connection??

Postby Big12Mustang » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:33 pm

sbsmith wrote:
Smu97186 wrote:And you really think the big 12 owns the Dallas market right now? It is SEC country and its not even close. I'm not saying we would gain back any of the market, but there's room for the big 12 to grow here



You're right which is why the Big 12 needs Bevo and OU to get back to top form ASAP. Short of that, DFW will continue to be SEC Country.


OU was a preseason top 4 team and their games (Big 12s as well) still get outdrawn big time by SEC games in the same timeslot.
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Re: SMU to Big XII - the Mack connection??

Postby Smu97186 » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:35 pm

sbsmith wrote:
Smu97186 wrote:And you really think the big 12 owns the Dallas market right now? It is SEC country and its not even close. I'm not saying we would gain back any of the market, but there's room for the big 12 to grow here



You're right which is why the Big 12 needs Bevo and OU to get back to top form ASAP. Short of that, DFW will continue to be SEC Country.

I realize its two different sports, but basketball gained complete control of Dallas last season, a top 25 football team would grab a lot of attention. Throw in Mack Brown at head coach and every football fan in Texas would want to catch our games
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