Wisconsin Academic admission standards

[PoconoPony]

Gary Andersen raised eyebrows when he left Wisconsin for Oregon State. Now we know why he did. (USATSI)



CORVALLIS, Ore. -- Before Gary Andersen goes on, he wants to make one thing clear.

A part of his surprising departure from Wisconsin had to do with admission standards.

"It's been well [documented] there were some kids I couldn't get in school," the Badgers' former coach said. "That was highly frustrating to me. I lost some guys, and I told them I wasn't going to lose them.

"I think they did what they were supposed to do [academically] and they still couldn't get in. That was really hard to deal with."

Until this recent moment in Andersen's new Oregon State office, even that much wasn't certain. It had been referred to, but not out loud by Anderson, as the reason he left a Top 25 Big Ten gig for a Pac-12 bottom feeder.

Now we know. Admissions was probably the reason the 50-year-old Andersen arguably caused the biggest stir of the coaching silly season.

"That's not Wisconsin's fault," Andersen added. "That's Wisconsin's deal ... I want to surround myself with those kids I can get in school."

The Salt Lake City native has spent most of his career in the West. He came up as a JUCO lineman first at Ricks College (in Idaho), then moved to Utah. Andersen was on Urban Meyer's staff during the Utes' undefeated season in 2004. In his fourth season as Utah State's head coach, the Aggies won 11 games in 2012.

Barry Alvarez then identified Andersen as an out-of-the-region candidate to take over tradition-bound Wisconsin.

Last month, a coach at the top of his career took what is universally thought to be a step down. Oregon State has won at least a share of five conference championships in its history -- none in the last 14 years. Wisconsin has been to six Rose Bowls alone since 1993.

"I don't expect anybody to understand it," Andersen said. "I don't expect one person to look at me and say, 'I get it.' But I get it."

In two seasons at Wisconsin, Andersen won 19 games and produced a Heisman Trophy finalist (Melvin Gordon).

Ultimately, it wasn't enough. He shockingly left the Badgers the week after Wisconsin was beaten 59-0 by Ohio State in the Big Ten title game.

It all happened at a dizzying pace. Once Mike Riley left for Nebraska, Andersen showed interest. Oregon State officials, including athletic director Bob DeCarolis, flew to Madison to meet him.

Alvarez found out by phone his coach was thinking about leaving. An assistant called the AD, who was trapped in New York due to flight delays.

"Gary needs to talk to you face-to-face," the assistant said.

"Put him on [the phone]," Alvarez said. "I thought we had a kid in trouble."

It was a bit more than that. Alvarez's coach was leaving a top Big Ten program for the second time in two years. Bret Bielema left for Arkansas in 2012. Andersen took the Oregon State job without visiting Corvallis.

"I had a vision in my mind what I thought it was," he said. "I didn't feel I needed to come here and see what the weight room looked like, what my office looked like. It was more of a vision of the direction. Do they really have a vision that they want to compete for a championship? Are they going to give me an opportunity to hire a big-time staff?"

It's been documented that Andersen's staff was 40th in compensation nationally ($2.6 million total). That was in the bottom half of the Big Ten.

Andersen was eighth in salary in the Big Ten, according to the USA Today database.

It didn't seem to be a money play with Andersen making about the same salary at Oregon State. For those who theorize the coach was distracted during the Ohio State loss, not true.

Andersen didn't become interested in Oregon State until days later.

He was not specific on the faults of the admission policy.

When read his former coach's comments, Alvarez said: "We haven't changed. ... You're not going to change our admission policy here. We have a high graduation rate. You get a meaningful degree. It's not a piece of paper that means you stayed eligible for four years."

Andersen did not articulate individuals but there are possible examples of his frustration. JUCO safety Serge Trezy's admission was delayed a year because Wisconsin did not accept an online course, his coach told CBSSports.com.

Alvarez told the Wisconsin State Journal that Andersen was "really bothered" that Sun Prairie, Wisconsin, prospect Craig Evans wasn't admitted.

Receiver Chris Jones achieved NCAA admission but reportedly didn't meet Wisconsin'sstandards. He is now at Toledo.

A Fox Sports report stated Wisconsin requires 17 high-school units for admission. That's higher than Ohio State and Nebraska (16), Oregon State (15) and Michigan State (14), according to the report.

"Should I have known that going in?" Andersen asked. "Maybe I should have asked more questions. Was anything hidden from me? I'm not saying that at all. It was a learned scenario."

However ...

"I need to be able to have my coaches walk into homes very well connected and committed and understanding of exactly what's going to take place when they're talking to those families."

At Wisconsin, Andersen said that "junior college kids basically became a non-[factor]."

Two former JUCO players were listed on Wisconsin's 2014 roster -- quarterback Tanner McEvoy and cornerback cornerback T.J. Reynard. There are seven junior college players listed on the 2014 Oregon State roster.

"I think it got to the point where the [Wisconsin] academic criteria definitely had shifted gears," Andersen said.

Alvarez countered that wasn't true. For example, in the 25 years prior to Andersen's arrival, Wisconsin "took a total" of 10 junior-college players.

"I thought we talked about that during the interview process," Alvarez said. "You're not going to bring truckloads of junior college kids or make a living with junior college kids here."

"We haven't changed," Alvarez added. "You're not going to change our admissions policy here. You're not going to change our academics here. ... All you have to do is check our track record."

Alvarez was referring to Wisconsin having the league's second-best record (.701) since 1993. Its total of 27 players on NFL rosters (going into Week 1) was second in the Big Ten to Ohio State and 12th-best nationally.

Wisconsin is 11th in the Big Ten in the latest NCAA graduation success rate in football. It is second to Northwestern in the conference in football Academic Progress rate. A recent CNN report found that between 2007-2012 only 2 percent of the school's football enrollees did not achieve the accepted threshold for college literacy.

Alvarez, the veteran Wisconsin coach/AD/power broker, added the academic standards are the same that basketball coach Bo Ryan (at Wisconsin 15 years) and Bielema (nine years) operated under.

"We've had a lot of success myself and Bret and Gary," Alvarez said. "Gary [did it] with Bret's kids."

"Our [admissions] people will work with you, but you're not going to wholesale them. ... It's like going to Stanford and trying to do that, or Northwestern. It's not going to work. Not here."

Andersen stressed that his departure had nothing to do with Alvarez. The two had a good working relationship.

"He never one time stepped on anybody's toes in the football office," the coach said. "Please don't make Wisconsin sound bad in any way, shape or form. I love those kids. I truly love them."

[Water Pony]

Thanks, Pocono,

This report is not flattering to Andersen, who is probably better off by leaving. Suggesting Wisconsin has more difficult admission standards is off target. There is probably more to his unusual behavior than this straw man.

[Stallion]

"A Fox Sports report stated Wisconsin requires 17 high-school units for admission. That's higher than Ohio State and Nebraska (16), Oregon State (15) and Michigan State (14), according to the report."


somebody didn't get their research right. NCAA already upgraded unit requirements and now requires 16 core credits to qualify for admission as a freshman and a scholarship. So unless he's talking about admission of kids that can't play those other schools like Oregon St and Michigan St. do too. How can you write an article criticizing the school without stating that? Of course, if true Wisconsin does require 1 unit more than NCAA minimums so there is some truth to the complaint-but not as painted by article

https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/file ... _Sheet.pdf

[PonyKai]

"How can you write an article criticizing the school without stating that?

Because, as we saw with June and his "just can't win here" excuse, it's a lot easier to just hope and wish and pretend that something is true rather than to do your job. See Rolling Stone's cluster f*ck.

[Stallion]

BTW SMU requirements for undergraduate admission core unit requirements are lower than Wisconsin, Ohio St and Nebraska and the same as Oregon St-since SMU only requires 15 (but again you need 16 to qualify under NCAA rules). For many years SMU had required 2 and then 1 MORE credit units than NCAA (which used to require only 14) but that was smoothed out before June came on board since the NCAA went from 14 core units to 16 core units around 2007

http://www.smu.edu/Admission/Apply/Firs ... quirements

[Planter's Punch]

BTW SMU requirements for undergraduate admission core unit requirements are lower than Wisconsin, Ohio St and Nebraska and the same as Oregon St-since SMU only requires 15 (but again you need 16 to qualify under NCAA rules). For many years SMU had required 2 and then 1 MORE credit units than NCAA (which used to require only 14) but that was smoothed out before June came on board since the NCAA went from 14 core units to 16 core units around 2007

http://www.smu.edu/Admission/Apply/Firs ... quirements

SMU really set their minimum admission as low as possible for sports.

I don't think you could get possibly lower than that and still graduate from a high school in Texas. UT requires 4 science, 4 math, 4 social science; which I was under the impression was the norm, or at least recommenced.

http://bealonghorn.utexas.edu/freshmen/ ... hs-courses

[Stallion]

right we've gone through this before but I think from memory A&M, Tech and Baylor require an additional math/science unit. SMU requires a foreign language unit (but so does the recommended State of Texas standard plus you have the option to take it during first semester) This is why I always point out that every school has certain unique requirements that might make it more difficult to be admitted to that school since you have to abide by BOTH university AND NCAA requirements. NCAA standards are not uniform for all recruits for that reason

[ponyboy]

Get them in. Check. Keep them eligible? It's analogous to building a tunnel through a mountain that admits semi-trucks but only lets Smart cars get out the other end of the tunnel.

[Planter's Punch]

Now according to June, SMU had to low of standards and let too many of his minimum qualifying recruits into SMU

[Stallion]

well actually that has been a part of my argument too-but I wish it was NCAA wide. I think MOST of the increasing academic fraud we are seeing today is a result of the deemphasis of the SAT on the sliding scale. Prop 48 got it right for about 15 years when it included the 700 minimum floor (recentered now to 830). But the NCAA in about 2000 allowed schools to go "below the floor". There is no way a kid scoring 600 or 700 on his SAT can handle college level courses. Even 800-850 is a stretch and a kid that will need a lot of remedial help. Those kids should be diverted to a JUCO/CC track until they can get the remedial help they need to justify a 4 year school scholarship. Starting in 2008 SMU started playing that game

[StallionsModelT]

well actually that has been a part of my argument too-but I wish it was NCAA wide. I think MOST of the increasing academic fraud we are seeing today is a result of the deemphasis of the SAT on the sliding scale. Prop 48 got it right for about 15 years when it included the 700 minimum floor (recentered now to 830). But the NCAA in about 2000 allowed schools to go "below the floor". There is no way a kid scoring 600 or 700 on his SAT can handle college level courses. Even 800-850 is a stretch and a kid that will need a lot of remedial help. Those kids should be diverted to a JUCO/CC track until they can get the remedial help they need to justify a 4 year school scholarship. Starting in 2008 SMU started playing that game

Not trying to be rude or insensitive here...but how does one not get at least a 700 on the SAT?

[tristatecoog]

http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/SAT-Percentile-Ranks-2012.pdf

Looks like about 8% of college bound seniors make less than 700 on the SAT, or 350 on each major part.

http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=171

Average latest SAT average for African-American students was 856.

[StallionsModelT]

http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/SAT-Percentile-Ranks-2012.pdf

Looks like about 8% of college bound seniors make less than 700 on the SAT, or 350 on each major part.

http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=171

Average latest SAT average for African-American students was 856.

That is ASTOUNDING. You really have no business walking around with a high school diploma if you score below 800 let alone 700. Wow.

[Stallion]

I posted similar numbers a few years ago. Except I think in Texas and the Deep South the numbers are significantly lower than average (15-20 points or so). Consider 2 recruits got into SMU with a 620 and 740 SAT 2 years ago. Also consider the average minority SAT will be forced to take a mandatory academic freshman redshirt starting in 2016 and the dividing line is 44 points HIGHER than that AVERAGE minority SAT (for a kid with a 2.3 GPA) . In case some of you didn't know it-this is what is driving the charter/prep school explosion for student athletes-they have to manufacture a high GPA to get in under the sliding scale

[tristatecoog]

It's scary stuff. And remember that only college bound seniors are taking the SAT. A much larger percentage of the rest of the high school senior population would fall into that less than 800 score range.

What about foreign students? They'd still need the SAT but is there opportunity to bring in some players outside the U.S. Senegal, etc.?