Fire Turner

[gostangs]

That's the most poetry to come out of Bedford in some time....

Easy to be an investor in "athletics" when you are at the big 12 pig trough eating away to the tune of 45 million a year. We are at somewhere between 5-10 million.

And no TCU is not on any sort of major rise, despite what they try to spin. Check their standing in USNWR and their average SAT scores - only slightly better then they were 10 years ago. We are closer to them in football then they are to us in academic standing - and we are far from them in football.

That we manage to hang on to what we have is 100% because of about 10 very dedicated wealthy alums, on whose back all of us are riding. It wont last forever. we get into a major conference in the next round or it is all pretty much over. Those that bellyache about not being competitive, or that our pres is not committed don't understand basic math - and they also are not usually the donors that are helping in any way keep us remotely relevant.

It is not a glittery fountain that has me mesmerized, it is a calculator. If you are unhappy get out your checkbook.

[tristatecoog]

TCU has a few wealthy alums as well, especially those that funded the stadium and arena upgrade. Of course, it helps when you can pay your head football coach $4M and have two sought after offensive coordinators in Meacham and Cumbie.

[1983 Cotton Bowl]

Ah yes, the predictable "Fire Turner" thread that pops up whenever there is some heartburn about the status of the football coach. If Morris actually leaves, we can all look forward to the "Burn down Dallas Hall and whack out each and every member of the Board of Trustees" thread as well. I can't wait.

[smusic 00]

RGT hates sports so much he shows up at every game he can just to prove it.

Who amongst the haters can personally attest to RGT not being at the forefront of the current push for IPC funding? How many meetings have you sat in on? How many flights have you taken to meet with potential donors?

[leopold]

I'm sorry, but this post is garbage.

For literally two decades now I have watched Turner back athletics in every way.
I have seen him pi$$ off every academic on campus to get Ford built, ensuring that SMU had a football team.
I remember working at the old Dominoes pizza next to Ozona's and have Copeland order a batch of pizza's and the reason he ordered it from us is they didn't have the funds to pay for them and knew we would donate them so long as the recipients tipped the drivers (they didn't, BTW). They have gone from literally not being able to buy pizzas to having the largest football budget in the last conference we were in and now among the highest in the new conference we are in.
Every major sport on campus has either a new facility or a complete makeover of one - that is due almost entirely to Turner's efforts.
We have pulled major coaching coup after major coaching coup, ALL due in large part to Turner's efforts. I have seen non SMU fans standing around scratching their heads wondering "Why in the hell is June Jones going to SMU?" "Why in the hell is Larry Brown going to SMU?" "Why in the hell is Chad Morris going to SMU?" and to able to point the facilities, salaries, and budgets they've been offered, things not offered to the likes of Gregg, Cavan, and even Bennett for the most part. Some of those coaches didn't pan out and some gave up, but we actually have a great job to offer people now, something that was NOT always the case, and that's been because someone has organized the money at this school and gotten it to back sports, and that someone is Turner.
We have gone from begging to be in a conference with the likes of Memphis, Tulane, and Southern Miss to leaving them in the dust. I have watched Memphis, with all they could offer the Big XII in terms of geography and potential, fall behind us in conference pecking order because they couldn't keep up with us in fundraising - Rice and Southern Miss haven't even tried and Tulane has only recently started to. As much as we would like to think otherwise, a decade ago we were tied or behind these schools and it was embarrassing. That's no longer the case, and we are as strong a candidate as Houston is right now in most respects - that is due largely to Turner.
We have absolutely had some misses while he has been here, and there are definitely others who deserve credit for getting us to being a somewhat competitive program. But every time there has been a mistake the school, at least while R. Gerald Turner has been here, has re-calibrated it's position and fixed the problem. When TCU ran past us on the football field we righted them ship and gave chase to them. The behind-the-scenes battles with the academics and stalwarts from the DP and post-DP periods have been vicious, I've been told, and from what I can tell he's won more than he lost. Even the IDP has been planned and is on the way.
If someone has a problem with Turner then fine, but for the sake of the cause have a real issue that hasn't been fixed or acknowledged to complain about.

[StallionsModelT]

Over the past 30 years this program has ran off all but its most ardent supporters. You can't be one of the 10 worst college football programs as a small, private school in a pro sports city and have a winning percentage of .290 for three decades and expect those people to have any sort of emotional attachment to the product on the field. Look around you at Ford. Most of the people that actually attend our games are old as sh*t. There are hardly any 30-50 which is exactly the kind of people who typically attend sporting events.

What RGT and the CoC have accomplished is remarkable. In the fourth quarter against USF there were maybe 2,000 people in the stands. Honestly, in the next 10 years we're either going to drop football altogether or drop to a lower tier of competition b/c as our only source of true fans start dying off we have nothing to replace them with. We are never getting people who graduated from 90-2015 back into Ford without being a Top 25 program. Even then I doubt we ever average 20K.

Just be thankful for where we are. This is the best conference SMU has been in since the SWC.

[SoCal_Pony]

During RGT's 20+ year stay at SMU, here is just a partial list of FB programs with a higher success rate than SMU:

Marshall, Southern Miss, Bowling Green, Nevada Reno, South Florida, Northern Illinois, Western Michigan, LA Tech, ECU, Troy, Central Michigan, Hawaii, SD St., Miami Ohio, Middle Tennessee St, Ball St, Wyoming, Connecticut, Tulsa, Louisiana Lafayette, San Jose St, Ark St, Rice, Wake Forest, Utah St, Memphis, Akron, Ohio, Florida Atlantic, Army, New Mexico, Louisiana Monroe, UNT, UTEP, Tulane and Duke.

Tell me which of the above schools have the built in advantages SMU has.

Not talking 5 or 10 years, but over 20 years!!!, that's all on Turner.

[Bergermeister]

I'm sorry, but this post is garbage.

For literally two decades now I have watched Turner back athletics in every way.
I have seen him pi$$ off every academic on campus to get Ford built, ensuring that SMU had a football team.
I remember working at the old Dominoes pizza next to Ozona's and have Copeland order a batch of pizza's and the reason he ordered it from us is they didn't have the funds to pay for them and knew we would donate them so long as the recipients tipped the drivers (they didn't, BTW). They have gone from literally not being able to buy pizzas to having the largest football budget in the last conference we were in and now among the highest in the new conference we are in.
Every major sport on campus has either a new facility or a complete makeover of one - that is due almost entirely to Turner's efforts.
We have pulled major coaching coup after major coaching coup, ALL due in large part to Turner's efforts. I have seen non SMU fans standing around scratching their heads wondering "Why in the hell is June Jones going to SMU?" "Why in the hell is Larry Brown going to SMU?" "Why in the hell is Chad Morris going to SMU?" and to able to point the facilities, salaries, and budgets they've been offered, things not offered to the likes of Gregg, Cavan, and even Bennett for the most part. Some of those coaches didn't pan out and some gave up, but we actually have a great job to offer people now, something that was NOT always the case, and that's been because someone has organized the money at this school and gotten it to back sports, and that someone is Turner.
We have gone from begging to be in a conference with the likes of Memphis, Tulane, and Southern Miss to leaving them in the dust. I have watched Memphis, with all they could offer the Big XII in terms of geography and potential, fall behind us in conference pecking order because they couldn't keep up with us in fundraising - Rice and Southern Miss haven't even tried and Tulane has only recently started to. As much as we would like to think otherwise, a decade ago we were tied or behind these schools and it was embarrassing. That's no longer the case, and we are as strong a candidate as Houston is right now in most respects - that is due largely to Turner.
We have absolutely had some misses while he has been here, and there are definitely others who deserve credit for getting us to being a somewhat competitive program. But every time there has been a mistake the school, at least while R. Gerald Turner has been here, has re-calibrated it's position and fixed the problem. When TCU ran past us on the football field we righted them ship and gave chase to them. The behind-the-scenes battles with the academics and stalwarts from the DP and post-DP periods have been vicious, I've been told, and from what I can tell he's won more than he lost. Even the IDP has been planned and is on the way.
If someone has a problem with Turner then fine, but for the sake of the cause have a real issue that hasn't been fixed or acknowledged to complain about.

Would you like another cup of Kool-Aid?

[PerunasHoof]

I'm sorry, but this post is garbage.

For literally two decades now I have watched Turner back athletics in every way.
I have seen him pi$$ off every academic on campus to get Ford built, ensuring that SMU had a football team.
I remember working at the old Dominoes pizza next to Ozona's and have Copeland order a batch of pizza's and the reason he ordered it from us is they didn't have the funds to pay for them and knew we would donate them so long as the recipients tipped the drivers (they didn't, BTW). They have gone from literally not being able to buy pizzas to having the largest football budget in the last conference we were in and now among the highest in the new conference we are in.
Every major sport on campus has either a new facility or a complete makeover of one - that is due almost entirely to Turner's efforts.
We have pulled major coaching coup after major coaching coup, ALL due in large part to Turner's efforts. I have seen non SMU fans standing around scratching their heads wondering "Why in the hell is June Jones going to SMU?" "Why in the hell is Larry Brown going to SMU?" "Why in the hell is Chad Morris going to SMU?" and to able to point the facilities, salaries, and budgets they've been offered, things not offered to the likes of Gregg, Cavan, and even Bennett for the most part. Some of those coaches didn't pan out and some gave up, but we actually have a great job to offer people now, something that was NOT always the case, and that's been because someone has organized the money at this school and gotten it to back sports, and that someone is Turner.
We have gone from begging to be in a conference with the likes of Memphis, Tulane, and Southern Miss to leaving them in the dust. I have watched Memphis, with all they could offer the Big XII in terms of geography and potential, fall behind us in conference pecking order because they couldn't keep up with us in fundraising - Rice and Southern Miss haven't even tried and Tulane has only recently started to. As much as we would like to think otherwise, a decade ago we were tied or behind these schools and it was embarrassing. That's no longer the case, and we are as strong a candidate as Houston is right now in most respects - that is due largely to Turner.
We have absolutely had some misses while he has been here, and there are definitely others who deserve credit for getting us to being a somewhat competitive program. But every time there has been a mistake the school, at least while R. Gerald Turner has been here, has re-calibrated it's position and fixed the problem. When TCU ran past us on the football field we righted them ship and gave chase to them. The behind-the-scenes battles with the academics and stalwarts from the DP and post-DP periods have been vicious, I've been told, and from what I can tell he's won more than he lost. Even the IDP has been planned and is on the way.
If someone has a problem with Turner then fine, but for the sake of the cause have a real issue that hasn't been fixed or acknowledged to complain about.

Would you like another cup of Kool-Aid?

No, but I would like a pair of Nike Decade shoes

[SoCal_Pony]

Honestly, in the next 10 years we're either going to drop football altogether or drop to a lower tier of competition b/c as our only source of true fans start dying off we have nothing to replace them with. We are never getting people who graduated from 90-2015 back into Ford without being a Top 25 program. Even then I doubt we ever average 20K.

I happen to agree with this statement. Which makes the IPF investment all the more dicey.

FTR, I told Turner when Ford was under construction that he was building at 32k seat mausoleum (due do existing 'Model'). He said I was misguided.

[ATLPonyDad]

The issues I have seen and heard from folks in SMU Athletics and Alumni/Fans (such as myself) since DP relates to what I characterize as "self-inflicted" policies that continue to hold back SMU Athletics post DP:

* Little to no investment in Athletics facilities or programs for almost 20 years post DP
* Self-imposed recruiting restrictions (i.e. could recruit or offer players schollies until admitted), no juco transfers, etc...only began to be partially lifted durign Phil Bennett era.
* Not following through on promise to admit all athletes who are successfully cleared by NCAA as eligible for NCAA Athletic Scholarship
* Not building an IPF now for sometime after raising "A Billion and Change" as RGT likes to say. Highland Park High has such a facility that the Packers had to use when snow hit before the Super Bowl when SMU was their practice facility...embarrassing.

June Jones went to RGT with university approved football recruiting guidelines from Stanford, Northwestern and Duke and asked RGT to choose one of the 3 or any combination he liked of those 3 universities as the SMU policy going forward and he could live with that. RGT told him "We are better than that at SMU". Really??? Stanford, Northwestern and Duke?? SMU has wonderful academic support centers as my son is a 2nd year student. The Education curriculum is now available so that 27% of the football team does have to graduate from Cox which was the case with Bennett's 0-12 team that was the only D1 college football team that year to graduate 100% of their seniors. I believe we could follow Stanford or Duke guidelines and not hurt our academic rankings.

Duke would not be Duke without their basketball program with increased number and quality of applications it helped drive over the past 30 years. One of the SMU Dean's I know is friends with his Duke counterpart who says if 5 star hoops recruit can rock an 800 SAT they get in. Duke understands the relationship between a highly successful basketball and building their brand to attract other top tier students. Same goes for Stanford.

The facility improvements, The Boulevard, attracting top coaches has been a blessing these past several years, but it seems we always take a step back when it becomes known of issues with those coaches because the school does not follow through on some of the important commitments made to them when they accept the job.

I can cite many more examples so I continue to hope for the best and changes to policies that truly put DP polices in the dustbin of history. I do not live in the state of TX and do what I can to keep 9 season football and 3 season basketball tickets to recruit "fans" in Dallas to use them and enjoy our fine university and how much fun "Gameday" is at SMU. 100% of the "Non-SMU" customers of fans I convince to come to a game on The Boulevard or at Moody wan to come back over and over. I see so much potential so close to being reality...as I witnessed amazing turnarounds at Kansas in Basketball when Larry Brown hired (as he did here), K-State on the verge of being kicked out of the Big 8 and having to drop to a lower tier of football before Bill Snyder arrived to save the school...many other examples are out there in college athletics when the University community at ALL levels decides to work towards a common goal. I do not that "common" goal being known or supported at SMU as it appears Faculty Senate, Administration, Fans, etc...have not agreed on what the common vision should be as it relates to the significance of how successful athletics drives increased revenue, alumni donations, increased number and quality of applications and turns existing students into to lifelong fans. This is different than those students who tell me they love being an SMU student, but root for Alabama, Georgia, Michigan, etc...

Pony Up!

[Stallion]

You are about a decade behind in your understanding of the issues facing SMU athletics-there are no substantial academic issues holding SMU back from competing with our natural and traditional rivals. You are lost in a time-warp. And your comparison to Stanford admission policy is one of the more ridiculous things I've read

BTW no other SMU fan was more critical of SMU's admission standards and "academic Model" from 1989-2008 and I repeatedly and thoroughly addressed those issues on SMU boards during that period. The major changes in NCAA admission standards themselves have made the old arguments largely obsolete. Old myths are hard to kill

[mustangxc]

The things most responsible for holding SMU back are attendance/alumni engagement, conference affiliation, lack of IPF, losing track record. Academics may affect our ability to keep some athletes eligible, but don't hold us back from having a reasonably successful program.

[StallionsModelT]

What will we complain about when we have an IPF and there's no national championship?

[Rebel10]

What will we complain about when we have an IPF and there's no national championship?

The June Jones public complaint about attendance.