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CA Mustang wrote:

Charleston Pony wrote:We never touched that ball but Tulsa defender 1st made contact at the one yard line and secured the ball in the end zone. It was the right call and hopefully a learning experience for our guys.

This is it right here. The Tulsa player touched the ball at the one and recovered it in the end zone. SMU players guessed wrong in hoping the ball would either go out of bounds or into the end zone before anyone touched it.

If the ball goes into the end zone untouched, its a dead ball. It was touched on the 1 thus live ball. I thought when I saw it on the scoreboard (haven't taken time to relook) that the nose of the ball touched out of bounds before it was recovered by Tulsa. Either way it was an extremely ugly play on the KR Team and we're lucky it didn't cost us the game.

HarvCrimYaleBlue wrote:Hubba the receiving team does not have to touch the ball for it to be “live” in the end zone.

To help everyone think about it another way...if the receiving team catches the ball in the air or via rolling into the end zone the receiver has to down the ball to make it dead and be considered a touchback. If no knee, it is still live. 999/1,000 times the receiving team happens to be the one to touch the ball first but that does not matter.

In 2018 there was a proposed rule change in the NFL to eliminate this scenario meaning: kick off + ball untouched by receiving team + end zone = dead ball / touchback. Not sure if it was adopted for 2019.

Forgive me for reading the rules;

Ball Dead in End Zone
ARTICLE 7. a. When a free kick untouched by Team B touches the ground
on or behind Team B’s goal line, the ball becomes dead and belongs to Team
B.
b. If the result of the free kick is a touchback (Rule 8-6) for Team B, they
will put the ball in play at their 25-yard line.

HubbaHubba wrote:

HarvCrimYaleBlue wrote:Hubba the receiving team does not have to touch the ball for it to be “live” in the end zone.

To help everyone think about it another way...if the receiving team catches the ball in the air or via rolling into the end zone the receiver has to down the ball to make it dead and be considered a touchback. If no knee, it is still live. 999/1,000 times the receiving team happens to be the one to touch the ball first but that does not matter.

In 2018 there was a proposed rule change in the NFL to eliminate this scenario meaning: kick off + ball untouched by receiving team + end zone = dead ball / touchback. Not sure if it was adopted for 2019.

Forgive me for reading the rules;

Ball Dead in End Zone
ARTICLE 7. a. When a free kick untouched by Team B touches the ground
on or behind Team B’s goal line, the ball becomes dead and belongs to Team
B.
b. If the result of the free kick is a touchback (Rule 8-6) for Team B, they
will put the ball in play at their 25-yard line.

That correct, except Tulsa touched the ball BEFORE it touched on or crossed SMU's goal line. Hence, a live ball and a TD.

In this case Tulsa is team A.

Field the ball and avoid this cluster all together. Regardless of rules, our guys screwed up. Correct it and move forward. At least we overcame the adversity. Imagine SMU teams of yore overcoming this type of screw up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ50PKHejnU

Ball touched prior to the end zone = live ball
Ball recovered in the end zone = Tulsa TD

First time I have gotten to see it slowed down. Tulsa player does touch it before it gets to the end line so it was a good call. He also got it without it going out of bounds. I am satisfied with all the rules being followed correctly and agree with Ponyte that we just need to perform our tasks properly and things like this will not occur.

I saw the play. How does watching the play again change the rule book? No question the ball is live after it goes 10 yards. It does not need to be touched by anyone at that point. The issue is if it goes into the end zone without the receiving team touching it. Once again the ball is LIVE between 10 yards past the kick line and the goal line. Tulsa does not have to touch it, SMU does not have to touch it to make it live. However, the RULE states it is dead if it it touches the ground int the end zone without being touched by the receiving team. The NFL spelled it out more clearly in 2018. Don't really follow NFL so don't know if they kept it.

Without a doubt a boneheaded play by our very special teams.

Out.

Hubba, you are 100% correct in everything you have posted. But, it seems like neither one of us can convince them that is was an incorrect call on the field that could have been easily corrected by the replay official, even though we both posted the rule from the rule book. SMH

I concede being wrong. Apologies gents.

I must disagree with the subject line, it was a kick-off FUBAR, not a SNAFU.

it's just a fun rules debate because we won. I think Hubba may be correct. Start with the premise that unlike a fumble, a recovering team cannot advance an onside kick. What if the Tulsa player got to the ball at the two yard line and purposely batted it forward into the endzone so he could then recover it. Would it be a touchdown? I don't think so because that would be like advancing the ball which you just can't do on an onside kick. Would it be any different if he 'accidentally' pushed the ball forward to advance it? I don't think so because the rule book can't deal with a player's mindset or intent in that situation. And Tulsa never possessed the ball within the field of play for a kickoff so the ball can't be placed back at the two yard line either. It has to be a touchback. Players don't take a knee the endzone anymore because they don't have to, once the ball crossed into the endzone without being touched by the receiving team, it's a touchback. Shouldn't the conference office tell Sonny if the ruling was correct?

First, it wasn't a fumble. Second, if this had happen at the 15 yardline and the Tulsa player, while diving for the ball moved it forward 2 yards recovered the ball, it would be Tulsa ball. I'm not a rules official but in the golden days of the Pony Express, this would have been a Tulsa TD.

Bottom line is we screwed up. Recover the ball and there is no chance of a Tulsa TD. Don't give a AAC official a chance to screw up cause he or she most defiantly will!

It is safe to say that the SMU returners did not let it go into the end-zone because of a confusion over the rules.

I'd like to hear from the league offices on this one. Is this really different from a scenario where the kicking team fields an untouched ball at, for arguments sake, the receiving team's 35 yard line and runs it into the end zone? Is that a TD or does the kicking team get the ball at receiving team's 35 yard line (where they 1st gained possession). Tulsa did not gain possession until the ball was in the end zone and because we never touched that ball, I'm now thinking touchback would have been the correct call.