Cole Beasley making news

[ponyboy]

White Helmet, thanks for the thoughtful and informed response. It’s refreshing to have a rational conversation. You asked for my thoughts and concerns about being vaccinated. Here they are.

Your first comment was that at 54 years old, I'm in a moderate risk group

Short answer is I've looked extensively at the data and I’m comfortable with the risk. Assuming I do get covid (day on day less likely), the chances of my dying from covid are very, very low for a person in my condition (no co-morbidities, etc).

I will grant that if I catch the thing the chances are materially higher for some sort of permanent damage (heart, lungs, taste, smell, etc.). But the way I figure, something like 20% of those who are infected are even symptomatic. And a small percentage of that 20% get it bad to the point to where they’re going to suffer permanent damage. (I know you guys see a lot of what appears to portend long term, permanent damage. Forgive the irreverence: All I can respond is that I see a lot of Eagles fans at an Eagles concert).

Your second comment: Getting the shot protects people around you (prevents you from passing along a possible covid infection to others). This argument is more serious -- now it’s not just about me.

First, let me level set something. As regards my immediate and extended family, every single person has chosen to get covid shots. That includes the people who live in the house with me, my adult son and his girlfriend, my aged parents, my aged in laws. (Two of them got covid before the shots were available – and still got the shots). I’m the sole holdout.

But here’s my position on the rest of the world: If in your personal risk analysis (which we all do every single day, e.g. every time we decide to get in a car or walk down a flight of stairs), you decide not to get the shot (supplies of which are available in abundance), well, that’s your choice. You decide the risks are low enough for you.

That leaves, then, those who can’t make decisions for themselves. My position there is that those in charge of their care (i.e. those with medical power of attorney), need to call that shot – in consultation with medical professionals.

So here are a few of my questions for you:

1. Did we not rush these vaccines to market, including skipping animal trials and/or other standard protocols?
2. Is it not the case that two of the three companies (Moderna and J & J) have never brought a vaccine to market?
3. Haven’t previous attempts to produce coronavirus vaccines failed?
4. Were there not concerning data gaps in required supporting materials presented by the vaccine makers to the FDA for the Emergency Use Authorization (EUA)?
5. Do we really know how effective the vaccines are? Why are raw data from the trials not being made available?
6. Forgive me, but are there not strong incentives to overreport covid numbers?

Thanks again, White Horse. I look forward to your responses.

[Dukie]

Getting the shot protects people around you (prevents you from passing along a possible covid infection to others). This argument is more serious -- now it’s not just about me.

First, let me level set something. As regards my immediate and extended family, every single person has chosen to get covid shots. That includes the people who live in the house with me, my adult son and his girlfriend, my aged parents, my aged in laws. (Two of them got covid before the shots were available – and still got the shots). I’m the sole holdout.

But here’s my position on the rest of the world: If in your personal risk analysis (which we all do every single day, e.g. every time we decide to get in a car or walk down a flight of stairs), you decide not to get the shot (supplies of which are available in abundance), well, that’s your choice. You decide the risks are low enough for you.

That leaves, then, those who can’t make decisions for themselves. My position there is that those in charge of their care (i.e. those with medical power of attorney), need to call that shot – in consultation with medical professionals.

You've left out the small number of people who are allergic to vaccine ingredients and cannot take them. You've also left out the not-so-small number of people who, because of compromised immune systems or advanced age or other medical reasons are unable to generate a robust antibody/immune response. And there are other categories who can't get the vaccine, including small children, and potentially people in countries to which you may travel. I personally know a 4-year-old with a permanent heart condition now from COVID. You, and other vaccine refuseniks, are choosing to expose these people to the virus. Maybe you'll get lucky and when you do catch the Delta variant as you breeze through your unvaccinated life you won't end up passing it on to any of these people. But you and your cohort are certainly making the choice to risk it for them.

[One Trick Pony]

Take death out of the equation 2 out of the 10 my wife works with have had extremely negative reactions - I think that may be where a great deal of the fear is coming from, one has excessive bleeding the other one needs to see a neurosurgeon now. Both late 20 . Neither are capable of coming back to work

No I’m not being forced to take any vaccines at this point in my life.
Not to mention I’ve already had Covid with the recent blood test I have the antibodies for at least one strain of it.
Pontificate all you want and maybe some of you should learn to sneeze in your sleeve not your hand.
Bleeding heart liberal’s

[ponyboy]

Sigh. Dukie, you make it difficult to have a good faith conversation when you continue to resort to calling people names and assuming you have insight into others' hearts and/or motivations. I'll take a deep breath before responding -- because you do make some good points.

[Edit: Looks like OTP didn't take that deep breath].

Ok, here now are the categories:

1. People who have access to the vaccine and no known reason (medically) why they couldn't get it.

2. People who can't get it because of various medical reasons.

3. Children.

4. People who don't have access to the vaccine (presumably all in other countries than the US).

I'm really sorry about the kid that got the heart problem. I do take some comfort in the knowledge that children are enormously resistant to covid. I mean like really, really, really resistant to it. For instance, and I'm just pulling one representative slice of time, in the five weeks following 8/15/20, 12,450 people 75 years or older died from covid. Twelve thousand. Wanna know how many aged 0-14 died in the US as a whole? Six. I suspect that applies equally to their tendency to get heart, lung, or other issues as compared to the older population. It's rare.

People who cannot get access. I want to know more about how many people we're talking about and what the chances are that I might be the cause for their death or "disfigurement," because I can't think of a better word. If it helps, I do not travel abroad. Doesn't mean I might not be a link in a chain that led to someone dying in Botswana or somewhere. So this is certainly something to consider.

At the end of the day, we all have to place a certain value on things. Some value freedom above equality. Some would switch that. But we cannot have a conversation at all without considerations of risk. For instance, forgetting about my own safety, I put the safety of others at risk every time I get behind the wheel of a car. Maybe I shouldn't drive.

[BUS]

Take this as funny.

"WE ARE BORG... it is useless to resist."

Or the German lady from Austin Powers Dr. Evil... "TAKE THE SHOT"

I think science gives me a 98.999 percent chance of beating this already. From what I have read, this shot may deminish your immune systems ability to fight off other issues.

I am not saying I will never - but as of now, no thank you.

And If I go, I'm in a better place and others get to spend my money.

[ponyboy]

Why does BUS always say it better?

[BUS]

Maybe it is my PhD in logic and common sense from SMU.
Lol

But it is nice to read the debate. Reminds me of the kappa sigma house debates. Quite spirited.
God's peace to all.
G

[JasonB]

Ponyboy, you have some old data that might impact your decision making.

The percentage of people who got Covid but remained asymptomatic (rather than presymptomatic) is around 20-30%.

To put it into context, given your age, you have about the same percentage chance of getting Covid and staying asymptomatic compared to getting covid and being hospitalized.

Now, if that is a risk you are willing to take, that is unfortunate.

OTP, BUS, and Ponyboy, seeing as you view the vaccine as a risk, let me change your perspective a little. Have some respect for all of the people around you who have elected to: take that risk, do something that is in the best interest of our society, and help our country recover as quickly as possible.

All of us who have taken that risk are taking it on your behalf, so that you can selfishly wait it out.

All we ask of you and the others who choose not to get vaccinated is that you follow CDC guidelines - if you are indoors in a public place, you wear a mask so that you aren't contributing to further spread and mutation.

We are taking the risk so that we can enjoy the benefits of an open society. It is disrespectful and selfish for you to both not take that risk whilst continuing to contribute towards the spread and persistence of the disease which might eventually shut our society down again while putting our loved ones who are unable to be vaccinated at risk.

[malonish]

When the CDC said vaccinated folks could go without masking indoors and Texas had 30% vaccination rate... I saw single digit people still wearing a mask so we got a bunch of selfish people walkin around. I'm not surprised about the discussion here but ayy what can you do except go through a couple days of arm soreness on their behalf and be the bigger man.

[mrydel]

No hugs from BUS. I will miss that.


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[malonish]

No hugs from BUS. I will miss that.


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I've been working out. My hugs are 10% stronger now so maybe I make a good alternate.

[Insane_Pony_Posse]

masks were built with the #1 priority to catch water droplets coming out ya face.

They may have built with that priority, but they also serve another purpose besides catching droplets. Masks help prevent germ transmitters (fingers) from going into mouths and noses....which like it or not humans are known to do.

[Charleston Pony]

All we ask of you and the others who choose not to get vaccinated is that you follow CDC guidelines - if you are indoors in a public place, you wear a mask so that you aren't contributing to further spread and mutation.

We are taking the risk so that we can enjoy the benefits of an open society. It is disrespectful and selfish for you to both not take that risk whilst continuing to contribute towards the spread and persistence of the disease which might eventually shut our society down again while putting our loved ones who are unable to be vaccinated at risk.

Selfish or fearful? I took the Moderna shots with no effects whatsoever and still mask up if I'm asked to. Just not a big deal to me, but I do understand the fear some people have. I've got a good friend from H.S. who has yet another reason he's not taking the shot...he was raised as a Christian Scientist and answers to a higher authority, but he practices the golden rule and also follows distancing and masking guidelines to do his part.

[malonish]

No hugs from BUS. I will miss that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've been working out. My hugs are 10% stronger now so maybe I make a good alternate.

[ponyboy]

The percentage of people who got Covid but remained asymptomatic (rather than presymptomatic) is around 20-30%.

Sloppy wording on my part. What I meant to say is that I think I've got good reason to believe that about 20% of infections are "serious" (by which I mean worse than getting the flu). But, yeah, the actual number of asymptomatic individuals is low: 15% (in my age group).

Maybe some CDC data will help: 85% of infected indviduals in my age group show at least some symptoms; 7% require hospitalization. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... urden.html

At least some (though, as we know, not all) of that 7% group are comprised of individuals that have pre-existing conditions. Since I’m in good health, I think a fair number is 5%, meaning that there’s a 1:20 chance that if I get covid, I’ll wind up in the hospital.

I still like those odds – again, just for the risk to me personally. Of course, I still want to know more about the chances I could infect others.

…given your age, you have about the same percentage chance of getting Covid and staying asymptomatic compared to getting covid and being hospitalized.

Actually, as the numbers show above, 15% are asymptomatic and 7% require hospitalization. So it’s about 2:1, asymptomatic to hospitalization.

Have some respect for all of the people around you who have elected to: take that risk, do something that is in the best interest of our society, and help our country recover as quickly as possible.

Right or wrong, I don’t share your faith in the medical establishment. But I will absolutely get vaccinated if I can get help understanding why I should do so. I’m certainly leaning a bit more towards doing so after reading some of the thoughtful content that’s been posted here.