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Perfect partners for the new "Big 12"

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Re: Perfect partners for the new "Big 12"

Postby Water Pony » Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:42 pm

Boise State and Memphis mentioned as next in line for Big12 after a couple of years? 2024?

I suggest we win now.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... additions/
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Re: Perfect partners for the new "Big 12"

Postby redpony » Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:35 pm

again it sounds like we are going to be left at the station
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Re: Perfect partners for the new "Big 12"

Postby Charleston Pony » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:53 pm

Hate to be so negative but realistically, if you were running the Big XII, both Boise & Memphis would be higher on your list of future expansion candidates than SMU. It's going to be a huge challenge for SMU to continue improving under today's circumstances. Like it or not, the low level of interest there has been in SMU athletics (with the exception of the Larry Brown years at Moody) since the death penalty may have pretty well sealed our fate. I've feared for years that SMU was going to end up in a conference with UNT and that the Mean Green is going to become our main rival.
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Re: Perfect partners for the new "Big 12"

Postby SMU_Alum11 » Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:43 pm

Charleston Pony wrote:Hate to be so negative but realistically, if you were running the Big XII, both Boise & Memphis would be higher on your list of future expansion candidates than SMU. It's going to be a huge challenge for SMU to continue improving under today's circumstances. Like it or not, the low level of interest there has been in SMU athletics (with the exception of the Larry Brown years at Moody) since the death penalty may have pretty well sealed our fate. I've feared for years that SMU was going to end up in a conference with UNT and that the Mean Green is going to become our main rival.


Like I've said before, if we are relegated to Division II (i.e. same conference as NTCC) then I'm honestly done. I won't get tickets and I'll simply walk away. There is no way you can say "guys guys watch us play NTCC, SFA, UAB, etc" and think that's worth it.

So my hope is that Turner and hart see the upside of getting us to the big leagues and see the abysmal floor if we get pseudo div II.
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Re: Perfect partners for the new "Big 12"

Postby Charleston Pony » Sat Sep 11, 2021 6:43 am

Keep harping on "Division 2" but you do realize we have been there since the breakup of the SWC, right? SMU is not likely to EVER play for a football national championship again, at least not in my lifetime. While I would like to see my school compete at the highest level of college athletics, I was once one of the 1500 and will support SMU no matter who we play.

If the Big XII eventually goes to 14 and adds Boise and Memphis, both the American and MWC will have to continue adding teams if we want to keep the 12 member format and host a championship game in football (probably for the privilege of playing in some relatively insignificant bowl game). If the Big XII is on their horizon, I don't see Boise making a move to the AAC.

I hope we continue to associate with Navy, USF and ECU and would not mind having another eastern team or two (like UAB or App St or Coastal Carolina) as it gives me more road trip options to watch my guys. I prefer driving to flying these days and only fly back to Dallas in my reunion years, so I'm not really excited about a SWC 2.0 but would follow SMU athletics even if that is our long term destiny and yes, even if UNT becomes our conference rival.
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Re: Perfect partners for the new "Big 12"

Postby mtrout » Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:05 am

In 1980, most games were not on TV. Now virtually every D1 game is on tv in some form every week. Given that we’ve been decent-at-best for 35 years and we have a small enrollment and fan base, we’re not a top option.
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Re: Perfect partners for the new "Big 12"

Postby mustangxc » Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:58 am

Charleston Pony wrote:Keep harping on "Division 2" but you do realize we have been there since the breakup of the SWC, right? SMU is not likely to EVER play for a football national championship again, at least not in my lifetime. While I would like to see my school compete at the highest level of college athletics, I was once one of the 1500 and will support SMU no matter who we play.

If the Big XII eventually goes to 14 and adds Boise and Memphis, both the American and MWC will have to continue adding teams if we want to keep the 12 member format and host a championship game in football (probably for the privilege of playing in some relatively insignificant bowl game). If the Big XII is on their horizon, I don't see Boise making a move to the AAC.

I hope we continue to associate with Navy, USF and ECU and would not mind having another eastern team or two (like UAB or App St or Coastal Carolina) as it gives me more road trip options to watch my guys. I prefer driving to flying these days and only fly back to Dallas in my reunion years, so I'm not really excited about a SWC 2.0 but would follow SMU athletics even if that is our long term destiny and yes, even if UNT becomes our conference rival.


I hate to break it to you but the Big XII is D2 if national championships is the measuring stick. The PAC-12 is pretty much D2 as well as the ACC save for Clemson who is now a media darling. Realistically if you are not in the SEC or BIG you won't win a national championship in football going forward.
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Re: Perfect partners for the new "Big 12"

Postby Charleston Pony » Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:43 pm

The key is being in the playoffs (to at least have a theoretical shot at a National Championship) and I'm assuming the PAC 12, Big 10, ACC and Big XII will all make a case for an expanded 8 team playoff with the current P5 conference's champions earning an auto-bid. Yes, the SEC might get all 3 at-large invites, but I don't see the 12 team, top 6 conference champions approach being adopted...so the Big XII's strategy has to be to gobble up as many of the top G5 programs they can to remain in that P5 category. They are off to a good start with BYU, UCF, Cincy & Houston and I think the Boise & Memphis expansion rumors make sense based on what those programs have accomplished. The question today is whether Sonny can continue building SMU's football program to a place we can't be ignored.
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Re: Perfect partners for the new "Big 12"

Postby Water Pony » Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:18 pm

CP: "The question today is whether Sonny can continue building SMU's football program to a place we can't be ignored."

Bingo. We can't expect to be gifted anything. SMU will have to earn it with our record, attendance and Dallas destination/recruiting bed. Despite the recent conference shifts, we may have a two year window to make our case. And, whatever we need to do to support and retain Sonny will be a factor.

Not sure I can put odds on our chances, but I am slightly more optimistic today than two weeks ago. Perhaps Big12 isn't our goal; but a high performing team in the middle of Dallas is too valuable to be ignored, as CP says.
Last edited by Water Pony on Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Perfect partners for the new "Big 12"

Postby EastStang » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:08 am

Kind of a bad weekend for the Big XII. OSU barely beat Tulsa. TT barely won. KU lost to Coastal Carolina. TCU had to work hard to be Cal. And of course the Whorns lost to the Hogs badly. Welcome to the SEC. ESPN is going to have to work hard to make those toaster leavings look attractive.
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Re: Perfect partners for the new "Big 12"

Postby DFW HOYA » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:21 am

SMU_Alum11 wrote:Like I've said before, if we are relegated to Division II (i.e. same conference as NTCC) then I'm honestly done. I won't get tickets and I'll simply walk away. There is no way you can say "guys guys watch us play NTCC, SFA, UAB, etc" and think that's worth it.


I'll assume the Division II reference is sarcastic, as there are only six Division II schools playing football in Texas: Angelo St., Midwestern St., West Texas A&M, TAMU-Commerce (the former East Texas St.), TAMU-Kingsville (the former Texas A&I), and UT-Permian Basin.
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Re: Perfect partners for the new "Big 12"

Postby Water Pony » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:56 am

A point of view from Lubbock suggests less excitement about the 4 new additions and the future of the Big 12:

https://wreckemred.com/2021/09/11/confe ... lebration/
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Re: Perfect partners for the new "Big 12"

Postby shadowman » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:02 pm

As long as the Playoffs eventually expand to 12 teams and the top team from the non P5 group gets a NY Six bowl invite, SMU will be fine.

Sure, it would be nice to get in a P5 conference and I think we have a decent chance down the road, but being in our current conference with some back fill invites is not Division II. Just keep winning and improving every year and we can achieve great prosperity. No need to overreact.
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Re: Perfect partners for the new "Big 12"

Postby Mustangs_Maroons » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:28 am

Water Pony wrote:A point of view from Lubbock suggests less excitement about the 4 new additions and the future of the Big 12:

https://wreckemred.com/2021/09/11/confe ... lebration/


Observations are fair. Of course, the weight of the eventual downfall of the big 12 lies squarely in the fact the remaining schools don’t have the cache to survive on their own and/or lure other programs from other P5 programs, so the only interest to join will come from non-P5 programs.

Who ends up being the tallest midget in that conference - it’s inevitable that this is heading more and more to class warfare, and unfortunately save for select blue bloods, the long term horizon doesn’t look too attractive for many. College athletics is like a mafia. Either you’re in it or not.
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Re: Perfect partners for the new "Big 12"

Postby SMU_Alum11 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:37 pm

DFW HOYA wrote:
SMU_Alum11 wrote:Like I've said before, if we are relegated to Division II (i.e. same conference as NTCC) then I'm honestly done. I won't get tickets and I'll simply walk away. There is no way you can say "guys guys watch us play NTCC, SFA, UAB, etc" and think that's worth it.


I'll assume the Division II reference is sarcastic, as there are only six Division II schools playing football in Texas: Angelo St., Midwestern St., West Texas A&M, TAMU-Commerce (the former East Texas St.), TAMU-Kingsville (the former Texas A&I), and UT-Permian Basin.


Not sarcastic but I can provide better context. If we are relegated to a new division two where the P4/5 can only play against each other and we are forced to only play amongst the UNT, FIUs of the world then yeah I'm not bothering with that.

Currently, we are all considered "FBS" which in our OOC scheduling can play any number of FBS teams. You are allowed to play only 1 FCS team. I'm essentially saying I don't want us ever to be that "1 FCS team". Also FCS is outside the bowl world and would never encounter power teams after that one possible game a year.

Yes our situation isn't great but technically we could schedule better and we have the potential to play power 5s in the bowl world.

Hopefully that makes sense to what my post meant.
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