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Re: USC/UCLA to B1G

Postby Topper » Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:08 pm

When it comes to TCU, their freshman SATs are not competitive with SMU but they are comparable to Oregon State and Washington State which is rather sad considering the relative tutions. But they have very little in the way of graduate programs and are no where near being an AAU university which seems to be a must for the Big 10. The Star Telegram is engaging in a flight of fancy to believe that TCU could buy its way into that group. It is not Northwestern and Fort Worth is not Chicago. Baylor has a student body twice as big as TCU and more graduate programs. But they carry too much baggage for the PAC or the Big10. Tech is Tech and Houston is a commuter school no matter how you slice it.
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Re: USC/UCLA to B1G

Postby Mustangs_Maroons » Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:18 pm

The B10 would have zero interest in tcu. They bring no value. The pac12 maybe. They’re imploding so they will likely look at any and all options. The interesting thing is that there are schools in the B10 that don’t add much value and I’m sure they’d love to trade up for schools in the ACC (ie, Clemson, Miami, Florida state, UNC) and PAC 12 (Oregon, Stanford and Washington). Same could be said for some less desirable schools in the SEC. Clearly, it makes more sense for the B10 to get ND and the three remaining best options from the PAC 12 and for the SEC to poach the cream of the crop from the ACC. I think then it’s the left overs (the B12, and those from the PAC 12 and ACC that the SEC and B10 don’t want). Hopefully we can find a place with this new second tier of schools. Right now, we’re on the new third tier on the outside looking in.
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Re: USC/UCLA to B1G

Postby redpony » Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:35 pm

You have wonder if a new conference might develop. The remains of both the P12 left overs, the ACC left overs and a few other with academics (like SMU). How viable are the P12 and ACC if they lose the 'anchor' schools? Their TV revenue would drop significantly. Would the P12 (with Stanford) really want the likes of Okie light, the tortilla tossers and a houston community commuter college?
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Re: USC/UCLA to B1G

Postby Hilltopper » Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:43 pm

Barstool says Colorado, Utah and the two Arizona schools are meeting tomorrow with the Big 12. If they keep that conference afloat, it will be really impressive -- a lot of people said it was hanging by a thread last year.
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Re: USC/UCLA to B1G

Postby EastStang » Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:43 pm

If that happens the ball is in ND court. How much will Fox have to pay to get the Irish? If ND says no, then does B1G invite OR, WA or Stanford or take a pass? If they pass look for the remaining six to add Boise, SMU, SDS, and UNLV. The ACC will only add schools if it markedly improves TV revenue.
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Re: USC/UCLA to B1G

Postby MustangStealth » Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:44 pm

Hilltopper wrote:Barstool says Colorado, Utah and the two Arizona schools are meeting tomorrow with the Big 12. If they keep that conference afloat, it will be really impressive -- a lot of people said it was hanging by a thread last year.

That's really a lateral move for them but probably best to abandon the sinking ship before it's completely under.
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Re: USC/UCLA to B1G

Postby 91Stang » Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:19 am

I don't know. Even if Oregon and Washington jump ship, the Pac-12 still looks better than the Big 12.
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Re: USC/UCLA to B1G

Postby JasonB » Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:56 am

mtrout wrote:
Topper wrote:I don't have the link to the Star Telegram column by Max Engel but he correctly points out that the realignment decisions will be made by the broadcast networks. Went on to tout TCU as being courted by PAC 12 and suggested that they would be a great addition to the Big 10 - even willing and able to write a big check for the honor. There is no way to tell how this is all going to fall out, but Engel is right, the networks are calling all shots and they want to separate the wheat from the chaff. If places like Oregon and Cal are chaff, what are we?

https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/sp ... 09828.html

At least locally, TCU has made it known to staffers and faculty that it’s ready to do whatever necessary to remain a member of the Power 5. According to TCU’s Board of Trustees “Retreat Outcomes” in April of 2022, one of primary goals of the school moving forward includes, “Be proactive, nimble and win, maximize placement as member of Power 5 conference in intercollegiate athletics.” High ranking TCU officials recently relayed to select faculty members that the school is so invested in its current model that there is no Plan B. To go in an another direction could be catastrophic, and would have a trickle down effect on salaries and compensation packages for staffers all over campus.

That last sentence is the path we took. SMU can't even say what they do.


The main difference between TCU and SMU is that TCU recognizes that this is a public, media driven battle. They invest in that. SMU tries to keep it on the down low, which is a completely outdated approach and we see what the results are.

SMU should be working with the DMN to produce a daily article about how awesome SMU is and their relationships with the PAC 12 and BIG 10.
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Re: USC/UCLA to B1G

Postby mustangxc » Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:59 am

I think TCU has a much better shot at the Big 10 or Pac 10 than SMU. They have a medical school which puts them way ahead of SMU. We really have done everything possible to be left behind the last 30+ years. We are followers. We need to become leaders.
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Re: USC/UCLA to B1G

Postby Silk » Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:32 pm

Am I the only one who finds it funny that Colorado might bolt for the conference it left?
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Re: USC/UCLA to B1G

Postby stlpony » Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:47 pm

Unfortunately, both the Big 12 and Pac 12 have to figure out their path forward before anyone in the Group of 5 can find a path into a Power conference. I don't see any good outcomes for SMU, Memphis, Boise State, or anyone else in our situation. Outside of Notre Dame, the Big 10 can take their choice of any remaining schools (Washington, Oregon, and even with creativity, Duke/NC). If either the Big12 or Pac12 ceases to exist, and AAC accepted the leftovers that didn't move to MWC, that does nothing for us.

All that said, SMU wouldn't be the worst basketball or football team in any of these conferences. We are located in a fantastic location. We have really good academics. Decent facilities and recent success funding upgrades. And, still, none of that really matters! Nobody wants to add a Group of 5 member unless it's absolutely necessary for survival. Think about it, did the American Athletic Conference really want to add any of the newest members during the last phase?

SMU must hope that both the Big 12 and Pac 12 continue to exist as separate conferences. This would require an expansion to occur which might present the crack needed for the administration to get to work. Interesting times!!
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Re: USC/UCLA to B1G

Postby peruna81 » Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:01 pm

stlpony wrote:Unfortunately, both the Big 12 and Pac 12 have to figure out their path forward before anyone in the Group of 5 can find a path into a Power conference. I don't see any good outcomes for SMU, Memphis, Boise State, or anyone else in our situation. Outside of Notre Dame, the Big 10 can take their choice of any remaining schools (Washington, Oregon, and even with creativity, Duke/NC). If either the Big12 or Pac12 ceases to exist, and AAC accepted the leftovers that didn't move to MWC, that does nothing for us.

All that said, SMU wouldn't be the worst basketball or football team in any of these conferences. We are located in a fantastic location. We have really good academics. Decent facilities and recent success funding upgrades. And, still, none of that really matters! Nobody wants to add a Group of 5 member unless it's absolutely necessary for survival. Think about it, did the American Athletic Conference really want to add any of the newest members during the last phase?

SMU must hope that both the Big 12 and Pac 12 continue to exist as separate conferences. This would require an expansion to occur which might present the crack needed for the administration to get to work. Interesting times!!

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Re: USC/UCLA to B1G

Postby Mustangs_Maroons » Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:40 pm

There was an article on ESPN that was a very good read on the current alignment predicaments. Essentially, it hypothesized that the B12 is the most stable out of the remaining three P5 conferences because it has the least amount of schools of interest to the B10 or the SEC. If the B10 or SEC would have wanted any of the schools in the B12, they would have gone after them when they got Texas and OU. The same is the case for the PAC 12 - the B10 only poached the two names it wanted most, USC and UCLA (and to leave room for ND).

The Pac 12 was ripe for the taking because their current TV deal expires in 2023, so USC and UCLA didn't have to wait that long. If the ACC had a similar short term on its TV deal, teams like Clemson, Florida State and Miami would probably already have announced deals with the SEC.

The irony is that because the B12 doesn't have the same TV contract expiring shortly as the Pac 12 and no strongly desirable schools for the P2, it is by default the most stable, and, as a result, most likely to poach teams from the Pac 12, such as Colorado, Arizona, Utah and Arizona State. The ACC seems to have its hands tied, so I think whatever is left of the Pac 12 will end up merging with the mountain west, or poaching teams from the mountain west. I personally still think the ACC is still a better conference than the B12 but has little room to maneuver to add new teams that can really add value to it TV contracts. Seems like the biggest loser in all of this is the Pac 12. This may create three tiers, the P2 (B10 and the SEC), the second tier (ACC and the new B12), and then the rest, Pac12/Mountain West, American, etc.
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Re: USC/UCLA to B1G

Postby Water Pony » Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:53 pm

Bay Area Writer:

With survival at stake, Pac-12 should consider merging with the ACC
July 5, 2022 at 2:42 pm
By Jon Wilner

As the Pac-12 fights for survival in the wake of USC and UCLA announcing their joint departure for the Big Ten in 2024, merger, acquisition and going-out-of-business talk is all the rage.

Washington and Oregon are also headed to the Big Ten …

No, Stanford is really the next target …

Arizona State, Arizona, Utah and Colorado are preparing to jump to the Big 12 …

The Pac-12 and Big 12 should merge to form a super-conference …

Meanwhile, the grandmaster stays quiet, examining the chessboard and plotting its next move.

The future of college football in the western half of the country depends largely, and perhaps entirely, on ESPN — one of the sport’s two overlords. The other, of course, is Fox.

How did we get here?

“It’s part media companies and part lack of leadership in college sports,” a media industry source told the Hotline (via text).

“Nobody looking out for best interests of (the) sport — too much self-interest and conflicts.”

ESPN made the first grand move last summer, quietly orchestrating the SEC’s acquisition of Texas and Oklahoma.

Fox countered last month, whispering in the Big Ten’s ear that USC and UCLA would make fine additions to the conference.

Now, each network controls a 16-team, blue-blooded super-league.

The score at halftime is ESPN 7, Fox 7,” the source said. “Should be an interesting second half.”

From here, it appears that Fox has secured the properties it wants: The 14 teams currently in the Big Ten, plus the arrivals from Los Angeles.

We don’t doubt the Four Corners schools (Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado and Utah) are exploring a move to the Big 12 — a step that would leave the Pac-12 with six members and spur its extinction.

But that move doesn’t make complete sense for ESPN’s chessboard.

Washington and Oregon possess the premier football properties among the 22 schools remaining in the Big 12 and Pac-12. Would ESPN tacitly approve any restructuring of the sport west of the Mississippi that marginalizes the brands carrying the greatest value?

The network assuredly would want Washington and Oregon as the pillars of a strong conference, regardless of size or geographic center.

Maybe the Big 12 gobbles up the Four Corners schools first, then moves on the Pacific Northwest powers in a devastating one-two that buries the Pac-12 …

Welcome to the second installment in a Hotline series examining the future of the Pac-12. We addressed the broader themes, including the desperate need for presidential leadership, in the introduction. Now, it’s time to sketch specific scenarios.

Our intent isn’t to favor one outcome over the other but, rather, to provide readers with the broadest possible sweep of options so that, whenever the next move comes, the shock waves will be limited.

(If you’re blindsided, the Hotline hasn’t done its job.)

In this and forthcoming installments, we will assume Washington and Oregon aren’t on the brink of joining the Big Ten.

Having grabbed USC and UCLA, the superpower now seems focused on luring Notre Dame. Yes, the Irish would need a partner, but we’ll deal with the role Washington and Oregon might play in that step if/when it becomes necessary.
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Re: USC/UCLA to B1G

Postby SoCal_Pony » Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:24 pm

Yes, that’s the million $$$ question. What is the tipping point that makes Arizona, Arizona St, Utah and Colorado leave the PAC for the B12?

I think they ultimately do leave as Oregon, Stanford, CAL and Washington are simply too valuable assets not to have at least a couple of them join the B10.

My prediction….(for today only)….the B12 will end up the academically inferior / football superior conference. The eventually gutted ACC will be the academically superior / football inferior conference.

We would gladly take either but will more likely be heading East if we want a ‘P5’ seat.
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