PAC12 Scenario = Expansion

[Doesntmatter]

Big XII probably has the better shot at surviving this round of realignment than the PAC XII does. I've seen the scenario where the Big XII expands to 18 members with pods of 6 teams each. If the Big XII could pull that off it leaves Washington State, Oregon State, Stanford and Cal holding the short sticks and probably having to look to the MWC as their future home.

It will be interesting to see how many conferences survive and whether Division I FBS expands a playoff system or creates a 2 tier playoff system. I'm thinking a 12-16 team playoff might be a way for the SEC & Big 10 to throw the lesser conferences a bone and could see a rule requiring a conference to have at least 16-18 members to qualify their champion for an automatic bid.

Why would WSU, OSU, Stanford and CAL give up the PAC and go to the Mountain West? Makes no sense. They can keep the PAC Brand, all their assets from Basketball credits and retained dues($), and AQ status. They would then recruit teams from the MW and other conferences to join them with a much better base than the MW has. Why would they leave all that behind?

So, having digested that, see how you might like this from an academic, financial, historical and somewhat geographical standpoint:
Stanford
Cal
WSU
OSU
SMU
Rice
Air Force
Boise St
San Diego St
UNLV
Colorado St
And
UC Davis (yes, Sacramento DMA, high academics, good football potential, and appeases the UC System)
or another MW team

Then throw in Gonzaga and St Mary's and you have respectable football and basketball.

You get 3 of the 8 largest DMAs in the US plus San Diego, Las Vegas, and Denver plus the Air Force effect.

Oh yes, and it comes with existing AQ status.

Get the picture? So, the Big 12 with a big win could still open an opportunity for us.

[dickey1331]

... are academic rankings and no religious baggage.

Curious what you mean by religious "baggage." I felt no religious influence of any kind while at SMU, and I know frogs who say the same about their experience at tcu. Each has a religious name and past religious influences, but other than that ... ?

No school in the Pac-12 has any religious affiliation. Baylor is the biggest Baptist university in the world.
BYU has the same story. TCU was founded by the Disciples of Christ and are still trying to distance itself from that relationship. Religious factors were oftentimes mentioned as part of the rationale as to why those schools were less desirable to the Pac-12. For SMU, even though Methodist is in the name, it is recognized as having no religious affiliation. For Pac-12, that has traditionally mattered. Net/Net, if Pac-12 wants to be in the DFW metroplex, this plus US News & World Report academic rankings help set us apart versus TCU/Baylor.

USC had a religious affiliation at one point.


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[FroggieFever]

TCU has the better program, but would they want to pay the exit fee? Would PAC12 rather have SMU's endowment and educational rankings?

FWIW: I know you were not pontificating this but TCU's endowment is larger than SMU's presently (by abt $500mm) and the difference in academic rankings for the sake of the argument is negligible. One could make the argument that TCU has a lot of runway having just added a Med school and pumping $100s mm into it and its facilities.

Also: If you want true inside data, read Gary's Shirtless Revenge posts on Killer Frogs. He is a TCU grad and a large media exec. Though he remains anonymous. We speculate he is with the Mouse. Of the 100s of posts on realignment, he has never been wrong.

https://forum.killerfrogs.com/index.php ... nge.72515/

[Nedward]

As a correction to an earlier post, we have multiple voting members from the Methodist Church on our board. And yes, input exists.

But super correct that for us to be similar to a university like Baylor or BYU is utter nonsense. Last time I checked, think that the university students for the past 20+ years were primarily Catholic or Presbyterian. Not that it mattered a lick in their decision.

[fan]

TCU has the better program, but would they want to pay the exit fee? Would PAC12 rather have SMU's endowment and educational rankings?

FWIW: I know you were not pontificating this but TCU's endowment is larger than SMU's presently (by abt $500mm) and the difference in academic rankings for the sake of the argument is negligible. One could make the argument that TCU has a lot of runway having just added a Med school and pumping $100s mm into it and its facilities.

Also: If you want true inside data, read Gary's Shirtless Revenge posts on Killer Frogs. He is a TCU grad and a large media exec. Though he remains anonymous. We speculate he is with the Mouse. Of the 100s of posts on realignment, he has never been wrong.

https://forum.killerfrogs.com/index.php ... nge.72515/

Honestly TCU has done way, way, way more with the med school thing in trying to advance their academic standing than we have. Kudos to them.
That is the one thing I'd be very much excited about with a potential PAC invite is that maybe they'd make us commit to actually moving forward academically instead of just building fountains.

[MV pony]

TCU has the better program, but would they want to pay the exit fee? Would PAC12 rather have SMU's endowment and educational rankings?

FWIW: I know you were not pontificating this but TCU's endowment is larger than SMU's presently (by abt $500mm) and the difference in academic rankings for the sake of the argument is negligible. One could make the argument that TCU has a lot of runway having just added a Med school and pumping $100s mm into it and its facilities.

Also: If you want true inside data, read Gary's Shirtless Revenge posts on Killer Frogs. He is a TCU grad and a large media exec. Though he remains anonymous. We speculate he is with the Mouse. Of the 100s of posts on realignment, he has never been wrong.

https://forum.killerfrogs.com/index.php ... nge.72515/

TCU fans should be on their knees every night thanking God TCU wasn't saddled with Turner and Lil Ricky.

[Mustangs_Maroons]

Where is the source that tcu’s endowment is $500mm higher than that of SMU?

SMU: $2.0bn (https://www.smu.edu/investments)
TCU: $2.1bn (https://magazine.tcu.edu/fall-2021/univ ... endowment/)

They both include mineral rights. I remember when SMU’s endowment was larger but never materially larger.

In terms of rankings, it’s not marginal when you look at the difference in student profiles. It would take TCU decades to catch up to the average of the SMU student today so don’t delude yourself.

[FroggieFever]

Where is the source that tcu’s endowment is $500mm higher than that of SMU?

https://endowment.tcu.edu/

Middle of page shows $2.4B. The latest Campus Update (shared internally, quarterly) is at $2.56B.

[FroggieFever]

In terms of rankings, it’s not marginal when you look at the difference in student profiles. It would take TCU decades to catch up to the average of the SMU student today so don’t delude yourself.

Outside of SAT/ACT (which TCU Admissions, among many other highly-selective institutions, including SMU, are "doing away with"), the student profile is very similar. Both are incredible institutions and a degree from either should set one up.

This is an apples to apples comparison, not an apples to oranges (say, SMU/TCU v. UNT or the inverse, SMU/TCU v. Rice).

[EastStang]

I'm not sure that TCU should want to move to the PAC-12. Its unstable. The Big XII has some stability now, at least. WVU now has a travel partner in Cincy. Houston and UCF add a major market and in BYU, it has a diva to replace UT.

[mtrout]

I hate TCU but their university did follow the athletics-focused path that we dream about (and our admin cannot even speak of). Also we have had a $1 billion endowment since 2006 so whatever is its now (1.9?, 2.1?) only shows mediocre management of the fund. They have passed us in almost every way...except they haven't beaten us since 2018.

[JasonB]

I'm not sure that TCU should want to move to the PAC-12. Its unstable. The Big XII has some stability now, at least. WVU now has a travel partner in Cincy. Houston and UCF add a major market and in BYU, it has a diva to replace UT.

Both conferences will be full of teams that wish they were in the Big 10 or SEC. The most stable conference will be the one with the tightest GOR agreement.

[JasonB]

By the way, major announcements occur on Tuesdays, so expect some major rumor to drop today ahead of the weekend to stir up sports talk. Might be accurate, might not be... but something will drop.

[SoCal_Pony]

I have seen SMU’s endowment at $2B, $2.1B and $2.5B, i don’t know what it is.

I do know the Wikipedia shows it at $2B but are referencing SMU’s own info from June 2020. In June 2020 i think TCU’s endowment was also around $2B.

What i do know is that SMU launched their $1.5B Ignited Campaign last fall with an emphasis more on endowment than facilities and that on SMU’s own website (once again are these numbers current???) they have already raised $880M. So has that impacted our endowment?, sure…to what degree?, i have no idea, SMU isn’t telling us.

This does go back to what Jason said recently….me and countless others have said as well….IF our endowment has grown in the past 2 years, SMU SHOULD show an increased number to better market itself both for academic and athletic purposes.

[Mustangs_Maroons]

In terms of rankings, it’s not marginal when you look at the difference in student profiles. It would take TCU decades to catch up to the average of the SMU student today so don’t delude yourself.

Outside of SAT/ACT (which TCU Admissions, among many other highly-selective institutions, including SMU, are "doing away with"), the student profile is very similar. Both are incredible institutions and a degree from either should set one up.

This is an apples to apples comparison, not an apples to oranges (say, SMU/TCU v. UNT or the inverse, SMU/TCU v. Rice).

The SAT / ACT is a key benchmark. The reason that SMU has lower admissions rate is the self-selection process and the cost of the university. There are a lot of students that apply to SMU and other top
Schools. We don’t get the average student applying to SMU, and sorry but the student profile overall is extremely different. TCU is closer to UNT in that regard. I would say UNT and TCU students are much more comparable. SMU is much more comparable to Tulane.