AP: Ruining the Party … Big Ten & SEC Power Play

[Graceland Tar Heel]

AS for me, I know it would be a bad thing for the state of NC for UNC, MooU (NCSU) , and Dook to be split. We are all key parts of the Research Triangle, and the RT is extremely important to NC. The 3 of us need to remain tied together in as many ways as possible.

What I think can be done now is that we lose FSU, but use that loss to get dels from ESPN to help overcome it nd remain easily the most important and financially secure conference. Both Amazon Prime and Apple want to get into live college sports, and ESPN has been looking for investors. I hope that either Amazon or Apple or both will want to invest in ESPN by investing in showing the ACC - and also demanding a larger ACC, for more content and more geography. We need more TX schools to mark a real presence, especially in and near DFW. WE could use UAZ, AZ ST, and maybe Utah (all are AAU). Cincinnati could be a nice addition. And lacking FSU we need to add USF - which now is an AAU school with an on campus stadium.

So basically you are advocating growing the ACC into the largest conference in college athletics? I suppose it could be re-named the "Coast to Coast Conference" since the American Athletic Conference and Conference USA titles are already taken. Of course, if the numerically challenged Big XII is still o.k. with their name...

It would be wild to be part of a 24 school athletic conference some day and it might help bring back some regionalization and reduce travel for student athletes and as you say, the networks would have plenty of live sports to offer. Who knows where this thing is headed but in this dog eat dog environment I fully expect the B1G and SEC will control and the ACC and Big XII will compete against each other for survival.

The ACC is already coast to coast. UU, UofA, and ASU would all be between Calford and SMU, which is far west of the Mississippi. That trio would be geographic bridges.

I am saying that, as you note, it seems the ACC will have to fight it out tooth and nail with the Big XII to be the 3rd most wealthy and powerful.I think the best way to do that is, first, to survive by losing only FSU. Then by actively wooing both Apple and Amazon, both of which would love to show national live college sports (hence a truly national conference would help). USF makes sense isn FL repayment for FSU - it is AAU and larger than FSU. I think getting many of SMU's old SWC rivals into the ACC would solidify the ACC in TX. I like Cincinnati as a possibility because it is the clear #2 state school overall in OH and the #2 sports college in OH, which is a large and football crazed state that borders both KY and IN. The Cincinnati TV market turns out more football talent than all of New England and NY combined.

[redpony]

not sure you want to get apple involved. they will just stream the games over their private network for subscribers only. Look at how they did the MSL when Messi moved to Miami and that basically eliminated getting any new fans.

[Charleston Pony]

The ACC is already coast to coast. UU, UofA, and ASU would all be between Calford and SMU, which is far west of the Mississippi. That trio would be geographic bridges.

I am saying that, as you note, it seems the ACC will have to fight it out tooth and nail with the Big XII to be the 3rd most wealthy and powerful.I think the best way to do that is, first, to survive by losing only FSU. Then by actively wooing both Apple and Amazon, both of which would love to show national live college sports (hence a truly national conference would help). USF makes sense isn FL repayment for FSU - it is AAU and larger than FSU. I think getting many of SMU's old SWC rivals into the ACC would solidify the ACC in TX. I like Cincinnati as a possibility because it is the clear #2 state school overall in OH and the #2 sports college in OH, which is a large and football crazed state that borders both KY and IN. The Cincinnati TV market turns out more football talent than all of New England and NY combined.

It will be interesting to see how all of this plays out but I do like the USF/N. Florida and the Cincy/OH ideas. When Ron Meyer came to SMU and built the program into a national power, one of the 1st things he did was to put together a schedule that included road trips to Florida, Penn State & Ohio State because aside from Texas, those 3 states were loaded with H.S. football talent and Meyer wanted to expand our recruiting territory. I would like to have TCU as a conference rival again and the "bridge locations" in AZ & UT make sense. I'm just not sure how you manage a 24 member conference in terms of scheduling. The 16 member WAC had 4 "pods" of 4 schools each and I suppose you could put together three 8 member divisions with an expanded "post season" playoff to determine a champion. Ultimately it will come down to what the media suits want because clearly they are steering this ship.

[PerunaPunch]

USF makes sense isn FL repayment for FSU - it is AAU and larger than FSU.

Meh... I got to know FSU a bit last year as we had our sailboat docked basically at their campus. St. Pete is a decent enough town, although the homeless situation there was a bit shocking. But as for the college itself, despite its nice ranking and other potentially desirable metrics, it looks like UNT or UTD and similar regional/junior colleges that grew up. For me it would be just like playing UNT, except that I'd have to take Southwest Airlines to a game rather than a short drive.

I think the ACC could do a lot better.

[Greenwich Pony]

I could be totally wrong here, but I doubt FSU or Clemson are going anywhere any time soon. They may WANT to, they may scream and cry and moan (sort of like Texas) that they are well-known football brands but the economics don't make any sense.

ESPN owns the SEC and the ACC rights. Neither FSU nor Clemson are adding any new markets or significant national followings (yes, I know they are well-known, but ND or Texas they are not), nor to they provide large new markets to justify adding them to the SEC, and the two programs would be in the back yard of other programs that won't want to share the money, nor deal with the competitive headache. ESPN is already suffering from reduced income, why would they bid against themselves?

The leaves the BIG as the only reasonable place for them to turn, but the BIG does value academics, and while FSU gets the BIG into the Florida market, is it enough to be financially justify the addition? Maybe, maybe but FSU's academics are iffy by BIG standards. UVA and UNC are better fits and open or lockdown new markets (DC/Carolina). Clemson, well, the South Carolina market isn't exactly a great windfall. Competing in these markets does not make a lot of financial sense. The SEC would be better situated to grab at VT or NCSU if they wanted to compete for the region, though with the shrinking revenues, may be better suited to just sit back and let the BIG to potentially over-extend.

That leaves better landing spots for FSU and Clemson exactly where? The Big XII? Please. The BIG is the only spot that sort of makes economic sense, and that is iffy in a shrinking sports market, even if it is revamped through streaming.

Now if the SEC and BIG are trying to form a minor pro league, which seems to be the case, then following the dollars is the only way to do this. Streaming may make geography less relevant, thus making the Rutgers and Maryland decisions moot. They may dump the Northwesterns and the Vandys, and then FSU and Clemson may add some more revenue, but year in and year out, these two league will also be eating their dead- teams not used to losing will wind up losing, and on a regular basis. Think about who cares about Nebraska football these days, Same thing could happen to Oklahoma. Those two leagues need the other leagues to provide some competition, because cashing those big checks is a lot less fun when you've been irrelevant for awhile. The economics of the sport is going to change what's important, and thus change the importance of the players, but for the current foreseeable future, the economics of the sport should keep FSU and Clemson more or less with the ACC until there is that change.

[Graceland Tar Heel]

USF makes sense isn FL repayment for FSU - it is AAU and larger than FSU.

Meh... I got to know FSU a bit last year as we had our sailboat docked basically at their campus. St. Pete is a decent enough town, although the homeless situation there was a bit shocking. But as for the college itself, despite its nice ranking and other potentially desirable metrics, it looks like UNT or UTD and similar regional/junior colleges that grew up. For me it would be just like playing UNT, except that I'd have to take Southwest Airlines to a game rather than a short drive.

I think the ACC could do a lot better.

You talk about a sailboat docked basically at the USF campus and yet you still find something too garish for the ACC? Is it that 'directional school' name? When it was founded it was literally the southernmost state U in FL - hence the quick and easy name choice. But USF was never a directional state U in the sense that most people assume. USF, with no membership in an ACC or BT, is in the AAU. The school got that not with help from fellow conference members but on its own. It is a top flight state university. In a very pleasing area to visit. And that TV market turns out a whole lot of football talent.

I'd take USF today in trade for BC or Wake and never think there could be a downside. Of course, even I would prefer it could change its name to something like Florida Polytechnic Institute and State University.

[Graceland Tar Heel]

I could be totally wrong here, but I doubt FSU or Clemson are going anywhere any time soon. They may WANT to, they may scream and cry and moan (sort of like Texas) that they are well-known football brands but the economics don't make any sense.

ESPN owns the SEC and the ACC rights. Neither FSU nor Clemson are adding any new markets or significant national followings (yes, I know they are well-known, but ND or Texas they are not), nor to they provide large new markets to justify adding them to the SEC, and the two programs would be in the back yard of other programs that won't want to share the money, nor deal with the competitive headache. ESPN is already suffering from reduced income, why would they bid against themselves?

The leaves the BIG as the only reasonable place for them to turn, but the BIG does value academics, and while FSU gets the BIG into the Florida market, is it enough to be financially justify the addition? Maybe, maybe but FSU's academics are iffy by BIG standards. UVA and UNC are better fits and open or lockdown new markets (DC/Carolina). Clemson, well, the South Carolina market isn't exactly a great windfall. Competing in these markets does not make a lot of financial sense. The SEC would be better situated to grab at VT or NCSU if they wanted to compete for the region, though with the shrinking revenues, may be better suited to just sit back and let the BIG to potentially over-extend.

That leaves better landing spots for FSU and Clemson exactly where? The Big XII? Please. The BIG is the only spot that sort of makes economic sense, and that is iffy in a shrinking sports market, even if it is revamped through streaming.

Now if the SEC and BIG are trying to form a minor pro league, which seems to be the case, then following the dollars is the only way to do this. Streaming may make geography less relevant, thus making the Rutgers and Maryland decisions moot. They may dump the Northwesterns and the Vandys, and then FSU and Clemson may add some more revenue, but year in and year out, these two league will also be eating their dead- teams not used to losing will wind up losing, and on a regular basis. Think about who cares about Nebraska football these days, Same thing could happen to Oklahoma. Those two leagues need the other leagues to provide some competition, because cashing those big checks is a lot less fun when you've been irrelevant for awhile. The economics of the sport is going to change what's important, and thus change the importance of the players, but for the current foreseeable future, the economics of the sport should keep FSU and Clemson more or less with the ACC until there is that change.

The SEC and BT are trying to eliminate competition in football. Basically, they are now willing to work together loosely to destroy leagues so that only their 2 leagues can ever again have a National Champ. That means they each have vested interest in seeing FSU and ND and probably Clemson in one of them. The SEC has assumed that FSU would kill to be SEC, but there is far to smoke about FSU leaders now so furious with ESPN and SEC that, coupled with the FSU administration's desire to be AAU, that FSU wants to leave ESPN for the BT. Now, the SEC problem is that it does not want the BT going to 20 with FSU and ND. And ESPN does not want to lose FSU, which is always a good or great TV draw. Even if FSU goes Big 12, that is half or more Fox, and that is not good for ESPN.

None of this would be happening if ESPn had not either developed the plan to just have 2 Major conferences, or else had not gone along with the SEC going along with the BT plan. But when ESPN chose to freeze the ACC, it chose to help SEC and BT destroy other conferences, so they could take whatever schools they wanted. And now ESPN faces blowback. ESPN, thanks to Disney;s gross mismanagement, faces serious fiscal issues, and it cannot afford to lose high valuable properties. But is also is not granted any money to keep them. So ESPN needs somebody with very deep pockets to buy in, to become a partner. That is how I see the ACC escaping, eventually, from ESON intact or nearly so. And, say, Amazon is going to want that partnership mean that it can proclaim it is broadcasting a national college conference.

But for any of that too come to pass, the Disney and ESON leaderships have to demonstrate better sense than they have evidenced in some time. They may just be happy to keep twisting the ACC to try to kill it, losing many valuable properties, but making the SEC very happy. Nearly unbelievable stupidity de-industrialized America and the entire West. Disney has the same class of leaders.

[EastStang]

SMU gave up its broadcast income for 9 years to help solve this mess. Cal and Stanford gave up half of theirs. Our money can be used to sweeten the kitty for the ACC Champion or for those teams that have the most national broadcast appearances, or those that have inflated egos, who knows. But that's $60 Million per year that's just there for the taking. Get a deal done guys. $20 Million bonus pool to ACC football champion. $40 Million to be divided by the top 5 TV appearing teams in some inverse order.