PonyDoh: Give us a primer

[Pony_Fan]

we need at least 1 shooter 1st

[ponyscott]

So the perception that SMU is a white elite school hurts us in the bball game...

That is never going to go away...

That is the perception, and it isn't going away, but it is what it is. That's why I always talk about models. At SMU, we should strive for a model that is identifiable by the student body, and makes sense w/regards to talent acquisition. In short, should we try and out-athlete the diploma mills in CUSA like Memphis/Houston/UTEP, or should we look more like Butler/BYU and rely on system and skill?

Damn guys, so friggin what?...all the private schools were and have been...what the heck is Georgetown? Duke? ...don't get so hung up on it...it just takes a GOOD playa with skills to turn the program around.

[PonyDoh]

I agree, and yes I think there are defn. racial undertones to SMU recruiting...it defn hurts us

I think a Butler is a great example of what we can become...

Also, you would think Adidas would want a bigger presence in a major city like Dallas...you would think they would want SMU to suceed...

All this shoe/AAU talk kind of makes me sick, it is incredible that they wield so much power

Here's the thing, they drive the global growth of the sport and basketball is a lifestyle brand. The NFL is far more popular then the NBA, but NBA players make far more in endorsement dollars. Having icons to push the brand moves product, and consumers buy way more hoop product then football. They sponsor college programs, in many cases, paying the coach more then the university. They are the games largest advertiser, which drives up TV deals and puts more money in the NCAAs pockets. They offset program costs from travel through apparel etc. They are basketball at this point, so either make friends or perish.

[PonyDoh]

So the perception that SMU is a white elite school hurts us in the bball game...

That is never going to go away...

That is the perception, and it isn't going away, but it is what it is. That's why I always talk about models. At SMU, we should strive for a model that is identifiable by the student body, and makes sense w/regards to talent acquisition. In short, should we try and out-athlete the diploma mills in CUSA like Memphis/Houston/UTEP, or should we look more like Butler/BYU and rely on system and skill?

Damn guys, so friggin what?...all the private schools were and have been...what the heck is Georgetown? Duke? ...don't get so hung up on it...it just takes a GOOD playa with skills to turn the program around.

First, let's no confuse traditional privates for the Big East parochial schools like Georgetown. Yes, it's a small white private, but it's program masquerades as an HBCU. See John Thompson. They have no academic standards for basketball players, and many of their best players from the 80s/90s were funneled through a special ed program via UDC. Xavier was mentioned earlier, and they don't really apply either. Big East schools just aren't operating on the same playing field as we are.

Dook is an ACC school on Tobacco Road. Their model makes sense on a larger scale, we just won't get 4 & 5 star kids originally

[ponyscott]

Point is?...we won't ever get 4 and 5 star guys anyway (unless we become part of the elite)...our academic standards are 'adjusting' now for good athletes and we CAN compete and the C-USA has some really good coaches and players, so lets get it on......lets think on the Western side like Gonzaga instead of Georgetown.

[RGV Pony]

..St Mary's..

on another note, PonyDoh, tell us how Baylor went from what they were to where they are, getting the recruits they do. From the get-go, what did Drew have to do? Hang out at AAU tournaments? Have Nike guys over for dinner? How did that happen?

[RunPeruna]

I think a Butler is a great example of what we can become...

I heard the Butler coach speak a couple of years ago at the TABC clinic and his entire talk was over "winning small". It was very evident that he was a bright young coach and the continued success Butler has enjoyed is no surprise. I think that if you get a coach that has a system that doesn't require athleticism but rather skill and then you find players that fit that system then you can compete with anyone, anywhere.

[SMU 86]

I agree, and yes I think there are defn. racial undertones to SMU recruiting...it defn hurts us

I agree. It actually hurts us in football as well as basketball. To some we come across as unwelcoming to minorities. I have heard that opposing football coaches use this perception against us as well.

[mr. pony]

... In the modern era, these programs(AAU and other) have replaced high schools and parents as the most important cog in profile recruits decision process. Ultimately, w/o getting too confusing, there is a trickle down effect. Apparel companies breed brand loyalty at very young age. Just like Nike flagships move 5 stars to 5 star programs, 3 stars are just as easily pushed to Nike mid-majors etc. ...

"In the modern era," ....
This, according to PDoh, is post-1995.

[PonyDoh]

... In the modern era, these programs(AAU and other) have replaced high schools and parents as the most important cog in profile recruits decision process. Ultimately, w/o getting too confusing, there is a trickle down effect. Apparel companies breed brand loyalty at very young age. Just like Nike flagships move 5 stars to 5 star programs, 3 stars are just as easily pushed to Nike mid-majors etc. ...

"In the modern era," ....
This, according to PDoh, is post-1995.

the reference to modern era refers to when recruiting vastly changed in hoops and why. Don't be bitter on the hoops board cause you don't understand how the game has changed. I'm a middle aged guy, not a spring chicken, FWIW. You seem to think I'm 12.

[PonyDoh]

Point is?...we won't ever get 4 and 5 star guys anyway (unless we become part of the elite)...our academic standards are 'adjusting' now for good athletes and we CAN compete and the C-USA has some really good coaches and players, so lets get it on......lets think on the Western side like Gonzaga instead of Georgetown.

Gonzaga is a wonderful model for us. I'm w/you there

[PonyDoh]

..St Mary's..

on another note, PonyDoh, tell us how Baylor went from what they were to where they are, getting the recruits they do. From the get-go, what did Drew have to do? Hang out at AAU tournaments? Have Nike guys over for dinner? How did that happen?

RGV, Drew is pretty shady on the trail. Not saying he pays, but take the John Wall example. Drew hires the brother of the head of D-One Sports, Dwon Clifton, to a newly created hoops operations position at Baylor. He's generally considered unqualified for the title. A national stink arises that Drew basically hired and paid Clifton to get to Wall. B/c of the media glare, Wall no longer leans to Baylor and heads to UK. In the interim, the NCAA passes rules that schools can't hire family/friends to get to players. Not one year later, D-One Sports new PG, Stargell Love, a kid we recruited, is handed to Baylor by Clifton etc. Love goes to QEA which is a diploma mill and stands for Quality Education Academy(lol). From what I understand, Baylor took Love's verbal w/o ever seeing his transcript first.

Also, Drew is tied at the hip to the Seawolves program in Dallas, see Perry Jones & Bakari Turner. Something smells in Waco, and it's not just Waco

[EastStang]

I saw the NCAA passed a new rule forbidding anyone from hiring someone as a coach who has a relationship with a recruit for 2 years prior to and two years after the recruit starts to attend the school. That won't clean up the recruiting cesspool, but its a start. AAU Coaches and parents need not apply.

[Hoop Fan]

Drew was never associated with Butler i don't think. Butler was resurrected by Thad Matta I believe and they have kept the ball rolling with program guys and internal promotions ever since.

[papawasamustang]

Point is?...we won't ever get 4 and 5 star guys anyway (unless we become part of the elite)...our academic standards are 'adjusting' now for good athletes and we CAN compete and the C-USA has some really good coaches and players, so lets get it on......lets think on the Western side like Gonzaga instead of Georgetown.

Gonzaga is a wonderful model for us. I'm w/you there

PonyDoh, I have really enjoyed reading this. Its been both interesting & educational to me.
I think the Zag model is a good one. But I also think conference rival Tulsa would be a very realistic program to try to emulate. Many similarities, geographically, enrollment, academics, etc.
Also, if you look @ their roster each year, they always have around 5-6 players from Texas. Not necessary the highest rated prospects, but players that fit their system.
Its also interesting to me that Rice & Tulane, the other 2 schools in CUSA very similar to SMU & Tulsa, are facing the same struggles as SMU. What is Tulsa doing thats different from SMU, Rice & Tulane?