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I think the beer comment is more an indicator rather than an actual issue.
Agree, you don't need beer to be rowdy.
But what people are getting at is the current Mob makeup of 112 is a bunch of kids who look like they're on a study break from Fondren and haven't quite decided whether they'll have their first beer before they turn 21 or not.

DiamondM wrote:Those of you claiming that you have to be (1) drunk and (2) in a frat to be loud and support the team are just dumb. If you need alcohol and your brahs to make you brave enough to be loud in Moody, then you suck in the first place.

Necessary? Absolutely not. But without the ability to screen people individually we have to play the odds. Your odds of a rowdy contributor out of drunk undergrad frat guys is much higher than engineering school PhD candidates with student visas.

DiamondM wrote:Those of you claiming that you have to be (1) drunk and (2) in a frat to be loud and support the team are just dumb. If you need alcohol and your brahs to make you brave enough to be loud in Moody, then you suck in the first place.

This is dishonest. You know what everyone means. Frats down low were so much better than this year it isn't even close, and if that offends or bothers you in some way then too bad. If the points system produced a rowdier crowd, I would be its biggest cheerleader - and I was in a fraternity. Bring the frats back. It could be every fraternity but mine, I don't care! Just please bring them back.

I would be more than happy to wager any amount that a group of the 1 and 2's above will always produce an atmosphere 100x better than a group a chicks and dorky phantom of the opera guy

First of all, I think we're blowing this "issue" out of proportion. Moody is still a damn fun place to watch a game and we have a more pronounced home court advantage than any other sporting event in Dallas and most (if not all) college basketball teams in Texas.

Secondly, some people seem to be giving the fraternities way too much credit. They obviously don't care or they'd be there in force already. Having a "system" for getting tickets plays in favor of groups that can educate and organize each other; if random "engineers and girls" are beating them out for tickets, it's because they do not care. At least as a whole.

I think we'll mostly forget that we had this conversation once we actually see a few games with higher stakes, like Cincinnati this coming Thursday. But for now, let's just beat USF.

Ok SMU Section F.... how about this fun thought experiment then

If you replaced the current students with any combination of the fraternities (which, apparently, don't care as much as the ones currently down there) - and I mean literally any house combination/proportion of each house you want - do you think it would be louder?

Answering no to that question is dishonest and means you have some bias somewhere. I want the loudest crowd and I have no issues where it comes from - If it comes from the flag girls and male Meadows dancers then fantastic, stuff em down there. Fraternities proved over the course of last year that they provide it - end of story. As I said, last Saturday was the straw that broke the being nice and political camel's back. It's done. I have been saying "alright, let's wait a bit more" and meant it. Walking in to that game, all my seatmates and I were saying this is clearly the game where it has to step up. It wasn't even the loudest game of the season! Just so so so soft. Get rid of em.

Edit: Any when I say "alright, let's wait a bit more" ... I meant not only seeing how it shakes out (although I have been critical from the first game on except for one game) but what suggestions are offered on how the current system could be adjusted to not just straight up favor the fraternities....but I've seen enough. Just need a total reboot to last year's method.

ObeyMyDog wrote:Ok SMU Section F.... how about this fun thought experiment then

If you replaced the current students with any combination of the fraternities (which, apparently, don't care as much as the ones currently down there) - and I mean literally any house combination/proportion of each house you want - do you think it would be louder?

Answering no to that question is dishonest and means you have some bias somewhere. I want the loudest crowd and I have no issues where it comes from - If it comes from the flag girls and male Meadows dancers then fantastic, stuff em down there. Fraternities proved over the course of last year that they provide it - end of story. As I said, last Saturday was the straw that broke the being nice and political camel's back. It's done. I have been saying "alright, let's wait a bit more" and meant it. Walking in to that game, all my seatmates and I were saying this is clearly the game where it has to step up. It wasn't even the loudest game of the season! Just so so so soft. Get rid of em.

It is just too bad the fraternities only care while they are at the game apparently, and did not care enough to make sure they could get those seats for the games.


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DiamondM wrote:Those of you claiming that you have to be (1) drunk and (2) in a frat to be loud and support the team are just dumb. If you need alcohol and your brahs to make you brave enough to be loud in Moody, then you suck in the first place.

Actually, they are just trying to figure out why the atmosphere isn't even reminiscent of a New Orleans funeral compared to last season. Instead of getting butt-hurt and going with the canned "you suck" response, try looking at what is there and realize the problem is there and it is real. This is a top-25 caliber program currently, and every game is a chance to see either good opposition or a lower team getting its collective asses kicked. Either way, show up, turn up, and drown out everyone who complains. If you hate comparisons to last season and fraternities, then get louder than last year and more boisterous than the frats. Yes, it too a good deal of time to get the atmosphere tweaked like it is at Duke and similar schools...but that wasn't during the social media/instant gratification generation. Get there a few minutes earlier be in whatever shape you need to be to get loud, and bring the heat. And seriously, if you give that canned parking argument you should get punched in the face. Show up a little early or walk from wherever your humble abode/pre-party is and get there. Good god, it's like you have to teach some how to wipe their [deleted] so they don't smell like so much [deleted]!

Let's stop equating caring about securing tickets to caring and being loud at games, that is dumb also.

ObeyMyDog wrote:If you replaced the current students with any combination of the fraternities (which, apparently, don't care as much as the ones currently down there) - and I mean literally any house combination/proportion of each house you want - do you think it would be louder?

Yes, of course I do. But I think coddling/babysitting them to get them there is just stupid. I was in a fraternity at SMU and I know how much easier it is to mobilize an organization than a bunch of random individuals. If they don't want to be there, then I welcome the students that do. That's how you build a culture around the program; not by covering your lack of enthusiasm w/ a bunch of rowdy drunks that don't give a damn about the program. It will not be an immediate fix, but (in my opinion) it is more likely to pay dividends in the future than turning Moody into a glorified nursery for fraternity members that excludes the general student population.

ObeyMyDog wrote:Answering no to that question is dishonest and means you have some bias somewhere. I want the loudest crowd and I have no issues where it comes from - If it comes from the flag girls and male Meadows dancers then fantastic, stuff em down there.

We all have biases. Yours are made clear from this sentence and I won't hide from mine either. I think SMU should prioritize supporters of the athletic programs over Greek organizations every single time. Ideally those two groups will overlap significantly, so it won't be an issue. Short-term rowdiness < long-term support.

ObeyMyDog wrote:Let's stop equating caring about securing tickets to caring and being loud at games, that is dumb also.

If a student cares to see the game, they have a ticket. It's not exactly a tough system. I agree that securing a ticket has little to do with how loud you'll be once you get into the game.

ObeyMyDog wrote:Let's stop equating caring about securing tickets to caring and being loud at games, that is dumb also.

The bottom line is you cannot be loud at a game if you are not at a game. You cannot be at a game unless you secure a ticket to the game. If you want to be loud at a game you had better care enough to get a ticket to the game.


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It is logically wrong to assume that not participating in the current points system = not being a supporter or enthusiastic or whatever about SMU bball and wanting tickets and to be there.

You were in a fraternity, I assume you would know better than to throw out the tired and lazy line of rowdy fraternity drunks = not giving a damn about the program. As far as I can tell - the kids down there now hardly care about the actual game - they just seem to like the idea of being down there.

I strongly disagree with the "building a culture" or "building long term support" with this student section system. What does that mean? With literally zero tradition as a hostile environment, Moody was just that last year. It isn't this year. What's the difference? That's obvious. We were lucky enough to have that "culture" and "hostility" almost instantly last year, and we messed it up. Granted, I agreed with what we have in place now in theory at first, but it's so busted it isn't even funny.

People keep on saying we are building to be like Duke or whatever school. I want to be SMU, and SMU and Moody was so freakin awesome last year. It is not this year, and that sucks.

Grant Carter wrote:

ObeyMyDog wrote:Let's stop equating caring about securing tickets to caring and being loud at games, that is dumb also.

The bottom line is you cannot be loud at a game if you are not at a game. You cannot be at a game unless you secure a ticket to the game. If you want to be loud at a game you had better care enough to get a ticket to the game.

Isn't it ironic that, in fact, if you care enough to get a ticket to the game you more than likely aren't being loud at the game? Great in theory, bad in practice. Not exactly what I want.

ObeyMyDog wrote:It is logically wrong to assume that not participating in the current points system = not being a supporter or enthusiastic or whatever about SMU bball and wanting tickets and to be there.

You were in a fraternity, I assume you would know better than to throw out the tired and lazy line of rowdy fraternity drunks = not giving a damn about the program. As far as I can tell - the kids down there now hardly care about the actual game - they just seem to like the idea of being down there.

I strongly disagree with the "building a culture" or "building long term support" with this student section system. What does that mean? With literally zero tradition as a hostile environment, Moody was just that last year. It isn't this year. What's the difference? That's obvious. We were lucky enough to have that "culture" and "hostility" almost instantly last year, and we messed it up. Granted, I agreed with what we have in place now in theory at first, but it's so busted it isn't even funny.

People keep on saying we are building to be like Duke or whatever school. I want to be SMU, and SMU and Moody was so freakin awesome last year. It is not this year, and that sucks.

On a few of these items I'm just going to say we disagree and that's cool. I think my biggest disconnect with your train of thought is that I know personally, if I was excited about SMU basketball I would have tickets. I wouldn't wait for them to be handed out during the Monday chapter meeting. For me, excitement/caring about the program does equal getting tickets to the games. The point system is laughably simple, so I do not believe that is what is preventing students from getting tickets.

And no, I do not believe the "fraternity members are useless drunks" train of thought. In a way, that's kind of my point. Fraternity members are just as capable of receiving tickets under the current system as anyone else and apparently choose not to. I do not believe they should be given special treatment, because alienating the rest of campus will cause more damage in the long run.

I do 100% agree with your statement that we shouldn't try to be Duke (or any other program). We are SMU and should be proud of that fact, but along with that comes a recent history of apathetic fans/students. Last year was amazing, but it was also unique and hard to reproduce. You just can't improve the product on the floor to that extent every year. And frankly the "trendiness" of SMU basketball has clearly faded not only on campus but in the metroplex as a whole since last year. I think we all knew we couldn't ride that wave forever.

For those who didn't read the article that I posted (which is from last year), here's an excerpt

Both kept Cincinnati on its heels for 20 minutes, and also caused Cincinnati coach and man-elf Mick Cronin endless frustration that culminated first with a technical foul and then, as he walked off the court, some casual on-air cursing. Getting out-coached by Larry Brown is understandable. Having your bench located roughly two feet away from the SMU student section is unbearable. During the game a week earlier, that same student section might have actually caused Memphis coach Josh Pastner some decent mental trauma. Larry Brown had to send out a school-wide email after that game begging the SMU student section to be nicer. I’m not sure the student section listened.

We're clearly doing something wrong with the way we give out tickets. I miss this....