2004-5 and beyond

[Pony_Fan]

The only thing Neimi, Forinash, and Smith did was take up space in the middle. Which was somewhat useful to give fouls and disrupt the other center but nothing of significance or value. Floyd was decent at times at center with blocked shots. Really haven't had a true center since Koncack?

[OldPony]

These guys were big centers (Smith and Forinash). They were probably rated about with Bamba. Maybe Bamba will come on to be really good. We all hope so. You mean that we have'nt had a really top notch center since Koncak although I liked Poerner a lot. We don't play a lot of teams with dominating centers. It seems to me that only the top 10 programs do get these guys on a regular basis. Let's hope this team can do what we all expect and then we'll have a better chance of getting a good one every now and then and we'll look better to Dallas top guys. Crowds can make a huge difference in recruiting. There are enough students to make a good crowd if they will get involved instead of just crying when we lose. It is much in the hands of the student body. Are they up to the challenge?

[Ponymon]

A lot of Forinash's and Nigel Smith's problems can be attributed to Coach Dement and his reported attitude about big men. According to Forinash's Dad, coming out of highschool Jon was offered by 50 school's including Arizona. He chose to stay close to home where the family could see him play. Jon went to a big man's camp in Hawaii the summer prior to his sophmore year, at a sigificant cost to his family, to better learn the position. However, Jon hurt his foot that year. Dement promised Forinash that he would redshirt him that year, but inexplicably, and without notifying Jon, decided to play him albeight only sparingly near the end of that year. Jon could have used that time off to let the foot heal and improve his game, but Dement decided that 2 minute appearances at the end of the game was better experience for him. Dement, reportedly, treated both Forinash and Smith in practice poorly often embarrassing them in front of the other players. As a result, they just lost interest! Jon's interest switched to computers and he could have cared less about basketball after that. Yes, he was a stiff, but when he wanted to play he provided a presence in the middle that was fun to watch. The refs loved to call fouls on him, but he did force the other team to adjust their shots when he was in there. It would have been interesting to see him play one more year, because, I believe, he was starting to show what he was capable of at the end of his final year. Dement, however, rarely played the big guys, as you recall, and it is questionable whether or not he would have given him any more playing time that last year.

[Pony_Fan]

Well, that must have been frustrating for John. Especially to go to a Big Man camp and have that be wasted. I never understood Dement's sub patterns EVER.

[LA_Mustang]

PF, that is no joke. Coach Dement’s substitution patterns were absurd and drove me crazy. There was never any consistency or rhythm. As much as it puzzled us, imagine what the players thought??

[Pony Up]

.... plus I've been assured that the Rack was one of the Top 15 Centers in America ....

Assured by who? A coach? A recruiting service guy? An "in-the-know" fan?

Rack was rated relatively high, but even then was labeled as a big guy who could play on the perimeter and shoot a little bit. Some report I saw even called him a poor man's Dirk Nowitzki. Nigel Smith and John Forinash were true centers, moreso than Rack, although he's worked hard to get better. Bamba Fall is a true center. Hopefully he'll work hard and get stronger and be the best we've had in ages.

[Stallion]

it was the object of much criticism on this board several years ago-somebody-I think it was the late GoRedGoBlue (who must have passed away or at least changed aliases once again) found some list showing the Rack as one of the top 15 Centers in America-and it did say that-but I joked about it at the time because his reported offers from more established recruiting services showed pretty clearly that he was not what you would call "Hotly Recruited". He had some offers but definitetly not the type you would expect from a dominant big man.

[Corso]

.... Yes, he was a stiff, but when he wanted to play he provided a presence in the middle that was fun to watch ....

I don't think Jon was a stiff at all. Yes, he's huge, but there were a handful of games in which he was very effective. Why we only saw that some of the time is up for debate, I guess: health, interest, relationships with players/coaches - who knows. That's in the past, and I don't think it's fair to Jon to dwell on that. But he's a really good kid who had real ability in there. Personally, I'd love to see what he could do (especially after attending the Pete Newell camp) under a coach who knows how to use a center. I liked Dement in many ways, but his refusal to develop an inside guy always bugged me.

[EastStang]

Back during the debates on who to hire as basketball coach, everyone was trumpeting what a great recruiting market for basketball Dallas is. It only has 7 national calibre players.? DC for example has about 30. Philly a like amount. And then you go to NY which has about 100. Even a state like Indiana probably has more players. So, we only have seven players that are being recruited by every great program in the Country as our primary targets. And if we don't land one a recruiting year is a failure? I think Tubbs is the right man, and will land some top prospects. But I have long doubted the all the eggs in one basket theory.

[Stallion]

DFW has about 7 superstar recruits-they probably have about 30 Division 1A recruits although I've never counted. Go to Texas Hoops.com for lists.

[LA_Mustang]

East,
I’m not sure where you get your information about recruiting but you numbers seem a little off. According to Rivals here's how the top 150 national players (generally 3 stars or higher) breakout by metro area:

LA – 9
D/FW – 8
Chicago – 6
NYC – 5
Jersey - 5
Miami – 5
Atlanta – 5
Houston – 5
Detroit – 4
Philly – 4
Seattle – 4
DC – 2
The whole state of Indiana – 2

DC and Philly may have 30 recruits each but they must be lower level D-I, D-II, or JUCO players. And Dallas has the same amount, if not more, of those caliber players. Ask anyone in the know about college basketball recruiting and they will tell you that Dallas and Houston are in the same league with LA, NYC and Chicago.

[EastStang]

Duke, Md., Virginia, UNC, Wake, VT, Georgetown, Syracuse, Villanova, Temple, St. Joe's, all sign top players from the No.Va, DC, Md. area every year. These teams tend to go to NCAA tournaments regularly. We haven't.

[jtstang]

Duke, Md., Virginia, UNC, Wake, VT, Georgetown, Syracuse, Villanova, Temple, St. Joe's, all sign top players from the No.Va, DC, Md. area every year. These teams tend to go to NCAA tournaments regularly. We haven't.

Try not to confuse the issue with facts. After all, rivals says so.

[LA_Mustang]

East,
I’m not sure what point your trying to make. You said that Dallas ONLY has 7 national recruits while DC and Philly have around 30, with NYC having 100. Once again, where are you getting these numbers? Just because Georgetown, UNC, Syracuse, UV, Temple, and other East and NE powers recruit DC, Philly, NYC heavily doesn’t necessarily mean there is more talent in those areas. I think it has a lot to do with proximity and the style of basketball played out there. If there were basketball powers in and around Texas like there are by you, those schools would be competing for a national championship every year.....UT is getting close to that point. If any another school in Texas got serious about basketball (money and facilities) the possibilities are endless, because the talent is here.

BTW, I consider a national recruit to be in the top 150-200 players in the country. Based any of the recruiting services (Rivals, Insiders, HoopScoop) DFW has more top recruits than the areas you mentioned. Dallas and Houston have an additional large number of second tier D-I prospects as well, probably 25-30 (The Derrick Roberts, Damon Hancock, Q type players). One thing for sure is these kids are committing a lot earlier than in the past. My hope is that Gary Flowers is the final piece to our class.