Beg to Differ w/ PonyDoh...SMU BBall has Been

[ontheedgeofmyseat]

relevant and there is a STRONG history...no need to laugh at those who know this and acknowledge this ...in fact, one could make a strong case that throughout SMU athletic histroy, we have had more success in hoops v. football. Just a couple of reminders for those who think SMU BBall rose and set with lord J.
*14 Conf. Championships (from 16-17 - 92-93)
*10 NCAA Tournaments (Final 4 in '56)
*2 NIT's
*66% home winning %
*All Americans in 56-57 & 84-85
*Countless 1st Team SWC & WAC performers
*All Time Winning Records vs. Baylor, Rice, A&M, tcu plus Tulane, Wichita St., Indiana, Minnesota, Ole [deleted], OU and Auburn.
*Marquee W's over Kansas, Duke, North Carolina, Mizzou, UNLV, Vandy and Wisconsin.

I will be the first to admit we are in a funk and or "death spiral" (there ya go, I feel like a true PFer now..), but to assert we have no real history or relevancy is absurd. I want a "reuturn to greatness" as much as the next guy...it will happen..I am confident of that. Go Stangs!

[ponyscott]

relevant and there is a STRONG history...no need to laugh at those who know this and acknowledge this ...in fact, one could make a strong case that throughout SMU athletic histroy, we have had more success in hoops v. football. Just a couple of reminders for those who think SMU BBall rose and set with lord J.
*14 Conf. Championships (from 16-17 - 92-93)
*10 NCAA Tournaments (Final 4 in '56)
*2 NIT's
*66% home winning %
*All Americans in 56-57 & 84-85
*Countless 1st Team SWC & WAC performers
*All Time Winning Records vs. Baylor, Rice, A&M, tcu plus Tulane, Wichita St., Indiana, Minnesota, Ole [deleted], OU and Auburn.
*Marquee W's over Kansas, Duke, North Carolina, Mizzou, UNLV, Vandy and Wisconsin.

I will be the first to admit we are in a funk and or "death spiral" (there ya go, I feel like a true PFer now..), but to assert we have no real history or relevancy is absurd. I want a "reuturn to greatness" as much as the next guy...it will happen..I am confident of that. Go Stangs!

Good post...as we can't forget the good things this BBall program has produced and it can happen again.

[PonyDoh]

10 NCAAs in 100 years in not relevant. Will San Francisco hoops rise again? At one time, Army and Navy were the best football teams in the land. We are recruiting kids born in '92 and '93 and you're preaching history where the players wore Chuck Taylor's and segregation was the norm.

I'm not trying to poop on the old timers and their fond memories, but let's be real here. Even when we're good, the fan support is poor. We throw money at problems, not actual solutions.

I'm the first to believe we can be a truly elite private program, but let's call it like it is. Even when we were great by our standards, it barely rippled nationally

[RGV Pony]

this reminds me. For about 8 years I've been trying to find someone with the Louisville vs SMU game at Moody on DVD. I think it was on ABC. That's what SMU hoops should be like.

Anyone?

and before you guys roll with the obvious, last I checked Heritage Hall didnt have it.

[ponyscott]

10 NCAAs in 100 years in not relevant. Will San Francisco hoops rise again? At one time, Army and Navy were the best football teams in the land. We are recruiting kids born in '92 and '93 and you're preaching history where the players wore Chuck Taylor's and segregation was the norm.

I'm not trying to poop on the old timers and their fond memories, but let's be real here. Even when we're good, the fan support is poor. We throw money at problems, not actual solutions.

I'm the first to believe we can be a truly elite private program, but let's call it like it is. Even when we were great by our standards, it barely rippled nationally

Sorry Doh you are sounding like several posters like Stallion was early last year about JJ and the Football program. And yes you still have to sell the past because it IS relevant too as Football did have the same problems selling old tired programs and history that is supposedly irrelevant to young recruits born after thoise days. The regime in place has changed the face of our athletic programs for the forseable future and it will happen with Basketball just as it has in Football.
We have never been elite nor great in Basketball but we can create a successful mid-major program here and it WILL happen. It may not happen with Doh but the building blocks are there and if Doh doesn't do it some one else will. We could have been an elite program and changed the face of SMU Basketball IF we had of allowed Larry Johnson to matriculate after taking his SAT's twice, and hell we may still have had a Southwest Conference if he was allowed to play here. That's another thread entirely, but it just takes the right coach with the right tactic in recruiting and one or two difference maker players to totally turn around this program around. Then all those barber shop folks that say 'we killed Jimmy Tubbs' will stop talking bad about SMU and maybe they will even come to our games.
No we won't pack the house every night here but we will get respectable crowds and we will be relevant sooner than later.
All this current Bball bashing is somewhat productive as it WILL force change because we that follow SMU demand it, and fortunatly we have benefactors that write checks to back up our pride.
What other private universities have raised the kind of crazy money we have in the last 10 years to improve our campus with hundreds of millions in improvements ( Not a U of San Francisco thats for sure)with even more hundreds of millions to come, which WILL include money for the right coach and improvements to Moody just as they have for the rest of the campus.
Sorry Doh you know alot about Basketball through your shoe contacts and I respect what you say normally but I still think you are too close and are too influenced by what is said out there.
Those mind sets will change when the program improves, and it will. Damn it has to.....

[ontheedgeofmyseat]

PonyDoh, you are sort of shifting the point here....

Here is what I am resonding to as it relates to SMU Bball and your comments..

"always been completely irrelevant"...no it hasn't, not by a long shot.

"Laugh at those recalling the glory years, as if there were any"...TONS of glory years, simply sorry you were not around to see / experience.


Go Mustangs!!

[RGV Pony]

"always been completely irrelevant"...

sounds like someone else I've heard of

[George S. Patton]

I am disgusted and frustrated over a program that apparently has no vision and can't get it's act together. I was so fired up when I was a freshman in 1987-88. I loved that team that won the SWC, the tournament and then went to NCAA.

Kato Armstrong
Carlton McKinney
Eric Longino
Glenn Puddy
Reginald Muhammed
Todd Alexander
Vernon Perdue (Remember when he reduced Dwayne Schnizius at Reunion?)

Man, that was a fun team. And that's why when I graduated, I specifically directed my donations to the basketball program.

I have made it clear that when it comes to my loyalty to this school, I'm harder on SMU than anybody else because I can't stand the way this program is floundering. It kills me to see it become more and more an afterthought.

[ontheedgeofmyseat]

I hear ya GSP,I was at Reunion for that UF game as well....but how can you say SMU BBall is an after thought? Have you seen Crum? Ever gazed at the flags flying from the rafters in Moody? Walked around the hallways to see the various display cases? Even the hire of Doherty, who is a name, NCoY and has a pedigree, screams of relevance and commitment, even though he is currently under performing...let this thing unfold, I think Orsini knows what he is doing.

[George S. Patton]

I donated to Crum and was there when the ribbon was cut when it opened. Now, my donation was modest but that's how much I wanted Crum to be a part of this.

It's become an afterthought these days because success is lacking, attendance is low and the game presentation is there.

I'm trusting Orsini will evaluate this and make the move because there are too many negatives that are pulling this in the wrong direction. There's no way to know if a new coach will change the fortunes.

But when you're current head coach is 38-67 in 3 1/2 seasons here it should tell you that enough is enough.

Update: Under Orsini at UCF, the men's basketball program did have success when it was a member of what I believe was the Big South with Samford and those folks.

Orsini was at UCF from 2002-2006. So I looked at the 02-03, 03-04, 04-05 and 05-06 seasons. In the Big South for the first three years, the Knights were 21-11, 25-6 and 24-9, won the conference tournaments in 04 and 05 and lost in the first round of the NCAA to Pitt and UConn. In their first year in CUSA in 05-06, they were 14-15. Now, I think UCF's coach has been there for a long time, so maybe Orsini didn't do much.

He went for the home run with Doherty and it didn't work. That's OK. Just do your due diligence to find the right replacement who can get this thing going.

[ponyscott]

I donated to Crum and was there when the ribbon was cut when it opened. Now, my donation was modest but that's how much I wanted Crum to be a part of this.

It's become an afterthought these days because success is lacking, attendance is low and the game presentation is there.

I'm trusting Orsini will evaluate this and make the move because there are too many negatives that are pulling this in the wrong direction. There's no way to know if a new coach will change the fortunes.

But when you're current head coach is 38-67 in 3 1/2 seasons here it should tell you that enough is enough.

Update: Under Orsini at UCF, the men's basketball program did have success when it was a member of what I believe was the Big South with Samford and those folks.

Orsini was at UCF from 2002-2006. So I looked at the 02-03, 03-04, 04-05 and 05-06 seasons. In the Big South for the first three years, the Knights were 21-11, 25-6 and 24-9, won the conference tournaments in 04 and 05 and lost in the first round of the NCAA to Pitt and UConn. In their first year in CUSA in 05-06, they were 14-15. Now, I think UCF's coach has been there for a long time, so maybe Orsini didn't do much.

He went for the home run with Doherty and it didn't work. That's OK. Just do your due diligence to find the right replacement who can get this thing going.

Good post and constructive this time.....

[PonyDoh]

PonyDoh, you are sort of shifting the point here....

Here is what I am resonding to as it relates to SMU Bball and your comments..

"always been completely irrelevant"...no it hasn't, not by a long shot.

"Laugh at those recalling the glory years, as if there were any"...TONS of glory years, simply sorry you were not around to see / experience.


Go Mustangs!!

On a national level, we've always been irrelevant. Your historical breakdown proves that. We've never had top 15 teams w/any consistency. We've never had runs in the tourney that are relevant. We've never had legit pro's that promote the program to help make us relevant. SWC titles don't make you relevant, b/c it wasn't a nationally respected league for most of those years, short of '93. Take a macro perspective and look at what you're saying. Seriously, 10 tourneys in 100 years is nothing short of pathetic. Our attendance has always been atrocious. It's been 17 years since an NCAA birth. We haven't won an NIT game in that time either.

We have very different definitions of relevant, and if you took this argument to a national board or impartial board, you'd see how our history is viewed. Mostly, I don't want this to be a [deleted] contest, b/c I'm thankful for those that worked hard to accomplish some of accomplishments you listed, but believe me when I say, that none of this is even worth mentioning to a recruit. To them, we've been worthless forever

[PonyDoh]

I hear ya GSP,I was at Reunion for that UF game as well....but how can you say SMU BBall is an after thought? Have you seen Crum? Ever gazed at the flags flying from the rafters in Moody? Walked around the hallways to see the various display cases? Even the hire of Doherty, who is a name, NCoY and has a pedigree, screams of relevance and commitment, even though he is currently under performing...let this thing unfold, I think Orsini knows what he is doing.

nobody in the hoops industry thinks so, let's hope they are wrong. Most blame him for our woes as much as Doh

[PonyDoh]

10 NCAAs in 100 years in not relevant. Will San Francisco hoops rise again? At one time, Army and Navy were the best football teams in the land. We are recruiting kids born in '92 and '93 and you're preaching history where the players wore Chuck Taylor's and segregation was the norm.

I'm not trying to poop on the old timers and their fond memories, but let's be real here. Even when we're good, the fan support is poor. We throw money at problems, not actual solutions.

I'm the first to believe we can be a truly elite private program, but let's call it like it is. Even when we were great by our standards, it barely rippled nationally

Sorry Doh you are sounding like several posters like Stallion was early last year about JJ and the Football program. And yes you still have to sell the past because it IS relevant too as Football did have the same problems selling old tired programs and history that is supposedly irrelevant to young recruits born after thoise days. The regime in place has changed the face of our athletic programs for the forseable future and it will happen with Basketball just as it has in Football.
We have never been elite nor great in Basketball but we can create a successful mid-major program here and it WILL happen. It may not happen with Doh but the building blocks are there and if Doh doesn't do it some one else will. We could have been an elite program and changed the face of SMU Basketball IF we had of allowed Larry Johnson to matriculate after taking his SAT's twice, and hell we may still have had a Southwest Conference if he was allowed to play here. That's another thread entirely, but it just takes the right coach with the right tactic in recruiting and one or two difference maker players to totally turn around this program around. Then all those barber shop folks that say 'we killed Jimmy Tubbs' will stop talking bad about SMU and maybe they will even come to our games.
No we won't pack the house every night here but we will get respectable crowds and we will be relevant sooner than later.
All this current Bball bashing is somewhat productive as it WILL force change because we that follow SMU demand it, and fortunatly we have benefactors that write checks to back up our pride.
What other private universities have raised the kind of crazy money we have in the last 10 years to improve our campus with hundreds of millions in improvements ( Not a U of San Francisco thats for sure)with even more hundreds of millions to come, which WILL include money for the right coach and improvements to Moody just as they have for the rest of the campus.
Sorry Doh you know alot about Basketball through your shoe contacts and I respect what you say normally but I still think you are too close and are too influenced by what is said out there.
Those mind sets will change when the program improves, and it will. Damn it has to.....

First off, there is no such thing as being too close to real information. No offense, but this isn't a guessing game for me. I know how all these players (Doh, Orsini etc) are perceived in the marketplace, by professionals.

We've never had a shortage of money, but commitment requires understanding of our issues, or that money will be misplaced. Crum is wonderful, but it doesn't address program problems, it's just another show of wealth. Having the proper model matters, and we don't seem to have it, nor am I convinced that Orsini understands how to properly address this matter.

Again, I'm the first that thinks we can be elite, but I'm certainly not leaning on sub-par tradition or gaudy displays of wealth for hope. Hope comes from tackling problems head on, admitting what we are and aren't as a university and program, develop the model accordingly, and hiring to the model w/an eye on grassroots infrastructure.

[RGV Pony]

maybe it's me, but something I think is par for the course was when we got our beautiful new floor, someone must've sent in the wrong measurements, because after dropping it on top of the old floor, the seats no longer pull out like they should. What other arena in America has the sections behind both benches non-functional?