BHop

[mulletmike]

Guess Bhop doesn't respect ol'Mike very much, either. Ever notice that our big time recruits get away w/murder? Its b/c in order to ink them, Dement sells the farm, all control and any accountability.

He can't right this ship b/c he's not the captain of it.

[Stallion]

...wasn't he benched before the Nevada game-what do you want him to do?

[Stallion]

Hey WAZ-just about every outstanding recruit at SMU under Dement has been an ALL-Conference caliber player. It ain't the Top Recruits that aren't performing-its the guys especially on the inside who were not top recruits who have failed to develop. The top National Top 100 recruits Sasser, Davis, Hancock, Ross, now Simpson and BHop have all not coincidentally been the Top Players. When SMU is able to recruit TOP 100 national recruits like that at all positions including PF and Center then we might be Tournament worthy-funny how that works.

[PX]

What Top-100 list was Quinton Ross ever on?

[Stallion]

He was one of 5 best players in Texas as a senior and led his team to 5A championship-didn't they lose on long shot with :01 on the clock? Can't remember. He was a BIG TIME recruit-easily Top 100-but no I don't have access to those lists anymore. BTW Hancock was listed on several Top 50 Lists too.

[mulletmike]

Stallion, thats the point. He can't gain the players respect by benching them. That ship has sailed.

Dement prior to SMU had no history of evaluating or recruiting Top 100 type players. In order to get Sasser and co, he promised huge minutes, the green light and anything else he could think of to get them to attend(see Ryan Hopkins). In short, he undermined his own authority and a pretty decent system that he used fairly effectively in year 1.

The inmates have long since run this asylum and thats fact. As for your Top 100s, several of those kids weren't Top 100 anywhere(Willie Davis, Q Ross) and Sasser/Pat Simpson/Damon Hancock were 85-100 on a couple of analysts lists. Some have performed fairly well, but given a structure around them, they might have seen the post-season.

The marginal players in the middle have been horrendous, as you stated, but they don't have to be dominant, just salvageable. You place too much emphasis on recruiting lists and not enough on how the program is micro-managed and what systems/philosophies are implemented.

Gonzaga has rarely been chock full of talent. Same w/the Creightons, Valpos etc. They play w/discipline and make up for their athletic inadequacies schematically. Its called coaching and we don't really have one.

Whats really sad is that Dement, after giving the players everything they wanted(glorified street ball and unlimited looks), still couldn't land a big guy. In essence, he handed the keys over to the inmates and then still couldn't put enough talent on the floor to compensate the utter lack of discipline.

[mulletmike]

Stallion, you are very wrong about Q and Damon. Q was one of Kunstadts Top 5 at years end, but not early. He started at #19 or something. We got him early b/c many backed off b/c of his injury.

He wasn't close to Top 100 nationally. Damon was on a few lists in the 80-100 range. Much like Sas and Simpson. None were anywhere near the Top 50 excepting bhop.

[Stallion]

Ross was the No. 5 rated recruit according to Texas Hoops, he led his team to 5A state championship( I was wrong above they did win it), he was First Team All-State, and was All-Tourney at the Nike Peach Jam. What injury he was just about the Player of the Year in 5A his senior year. He was a top 100 recruit. Sasser was ranked as the No. 2 player in Texas as I remember according to Texas Hoops. A definite Top 100 Player. The only player on my list who might not have been was the one who accomplished the least-Willie Davis-but he was definitely a Top Texas recruit-without question Top 10 in Texas according to Texas Hoops. The rest were all Top 100 recruits by at least one major service.

[This message has been edited by Stallion (edited 02-15-2003).]

[Stallion]

Mullet Mike I bet I follow this stuff just a little bit more than you. Hancock definitely was a preseason Top 50 recruit according to at least one major service. He was a consensus Top 100 recruit.

[PX]

Actually, thats not quite true. When we signed him he was rated 25th in the state, and he had a back injury that many schools thought made him a question mark. Some considered it a questionable signing. By the end of his senior year he was ranked 7th in the state, and did lead Kimball to the state title game (I have it on tape) but he wasnt on anyones national top-100 list, ever. Q is an example of a guy who really rose after he was signed. Charlie Davis, originally from Grand Prairie now a starter at Tulsa, was another sleeper that same year. When he signed with Tulsa our coaches had never heard of him, he wasnt on anyones list.

[mulletmike]

Why do you even look at kunstadts ratings and try to gauge where they would pan out nationally? Just b/c they were rated highly in texas, until about 3 years ago, didn't mean a thing nationally. Texas is a johnny come lately to the world of major D1 monsters in hoops.

Q being rated #5 or Sas #2 doesn't equate to Top 100. That said, a few services had Sas and Hancock in the Top 100. Only one that I know of had Simpson. Q just wasn't top 100 nor was Willie or Elsey.

In fact, both Voc and Kris Lowe had better national rankings in a cross section of services than Q.

[Stallion]

WHO IN THE HELL CARES WHERE HE WAS RATED WHEN HE SIGNED before the season. I said he was TOP 100 recruit-which he was after a fabulous senior season.

[mulletmike]

Stallion, I used to be Ponybacker when Mustang Maniacs was legit a few years back and you've got nothing on me in hoops recruiting, I guarantee you. You are a reader of the services and thats great. That said, I've coached against most of these guys in AAU and know most of the guys personally whose services you are quoting.

[Stallion]

Really Top 5 doesn't equate to National Top 100? That's funny because this year's Rivals Top 100 List has 6 Texas players. I hate to tell you but things have changed-Texas now produces the 2nd highest number of Division 1 scholarships in the United States.

[mulletmike]

You are correct, sir. I've already stated that much on this thread. Until 3 or so years ago, Texas wasn't a major producer of the highest caliber d1 players. The kidsin question were recruited prior to texas reaching the big time. Don't need to defend the state of todays HS ballers in Texas to me. Last years class was phenomenal etc.. Everyone will admit the steps Texas has made, Stallion. No need to get all "don't Mess w/Texas' on me.

Still, your lists be damned, I'll take 5 ballers from the Dc/Charm city corridor and bury the state of Texas 8 out of 10 times.