Keith Frazier

[Hoop Fan]

I actually think its naïve to believe that Larry DID know the details all along. How stupid would that have been? Surely, surely he is not that dumb and I know he is not that arrogant, you can tell by his demeanor that he is not. Maligi was a foot soldier on the trail and must have rationalized and thought 'that's the ways its done' out here. Who knows, but isn't it irrelevant because Larry IS being punished as if he knew, ie the 9 games which we are not appealing I doubt. The key is the post season ban and to me the question there should be institutional control. SMU didn't lack institutional control which is the key point to all of this in terms of severity.

I think the charge was lack of coaching control not institutional control.

Precisely, that's the point. Lack of institutional control (ie UNC right now) is far worse and more specific of a charge. Lack of coaching control is a new umbrella subjective thing.

[Stallion]

the only thing mentioned in the report about Kimball was in Footnote 8 which states:

""The Dallas Independent School District (Texas) conducted an investigation into a grade change on behalf of the student athlete while he was in high school. While the former assistant men's coach recruited the student-athlete when he attended high school, he was not implicated in the school district's investigation"

Otherwise, there is no indication that the NCAA itself investigated what went on at Kimball

[smusportspage]

Really?
You are not going to sell that to a jury
I've known that Keith Frazier wasn't likely to qualify since he was a Sophomore in High School

Everybody but Texas Tech backs off

You're telling me Larry isn't getting weekly updates on getting the kid over the hump?
You're telling me that Larry Brown doesn't know that a major way to get over the hump is fixing his grades in last semester at Kimball, raising his SAT or taking a +1 Correspondence Course which I've discussed many times on this board. I bet there was at least a 3 pronged strategy to get him eligible. Grades, SAT and +1 Summer Class

Then you got the situation at Kimball-he had to know grades were changed at Kimball because SMU rejected that first transcript. Red flags all over the place.

What you are really saying is that Larry knew all these things -with a wink and a nod-but had others do the dirty work. If that's what you are saying he's lucky his punishment isn't much higher. The NCAA imposed the higher standards to deal exactly with that type of Head Coach

Larry said that he was getting weekly maybe more than that updates on each and every kid in the program once they were in school. Kimball is not brought up in the report is it? The only thing that I have read about Kimball (not in NCAA report)is that maybe a grade was changed and then changed back. Bottom line, the Provost of this University decided that Keith was to be admitted. This point is documented. This university has done everything in its power to adhere to NCAA guidelines and when it found that is had not done so on one isolated event, it self reported it. What red flags? The only thing the report seems to hang on Larry is that he took 1 month to report the violation. All I can say to that is well, 1 month sure beats nine years or twenty years. Bottom line is the sanctions were draconian and were out of the guidelines of common sense for the level of violations. The Committee abused it's discretion. Put me on the jury....please.

[Hoop Fan]

You're telling me Larry isn't getting weekly updates on getting the kid over the hump? You're telling me that Larry Brown doesn't know that a major way to get over the hump is fixing his grades in last semester at Kimball, raising his SAT or taking a +1 Correspondence Course which I've discussed many times on this board. I bet there was at least a 3 pronged strategy to get him eligible. Grades, SAT and +1 Summer Class

Don't feel like arguing about it, but not seeing what your point is. Of course everybody knew Keith was a risk and had to have some things go right to get admitted. All of the things you cite above were obvious, yes (assuming you mean by fixing his Kimball grade, that means appealing for it to be properly weighted, not fixing in the dirty sense). What about Larry knowing all those factors and being updated by people daily, weekly or hourly on status at all indicates, much less proves, that he had direct knowledge specifically that Maligi or someone did something very wildly stupid by getting the assistant to help with the correspondence class? How do you make that leap legally? I don't even see the circumstantial evidence that he necessarily knew, much less the evidence. Is it in the report? You really think LB was the one going through hoops with admissions on Keith and directing all the tasks? No, Larry no doubt approved the strategy of waiting on Keith and holding a scholly for Keith, and was counting on his soldiers to shepherd the process and was probably receiving reports from everybody on this issue. I don't know why you find it implausible that he wasn't in the gory details other then knowing some things had to go right. If he did know or direct the action, that was beyond stupid, and if it was in testimony, or email or some other provable form, he should have and would have been fired months ago! So what are we speculating about?

[smusportspage]

I think maybe Stallion is simply playing devil's advocate and pointing out some of the hurdles that might be thrown out there on an Appeal. Otherwise, you are correct, it is pure speculation.

[Mustangsabu]

It's not complicated. Rick Hart is charged with running the department that has now become a national scandal. He should be fired. The incompetence shown in how the school dealt with this is sufficient alone. With all that's at stake and with all under his control he could not get a player, admin or head coach to get their story straight before meeting the NCAA.

And as for June, my opinion of him has changed but I would take the position that Rick wet the bed with that too.


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[couch 'em]

The most concerning thing is how incompetent we are. Nobody made sure KF knew what class was being taken for him? That is basic.

[Stallion]

Its was not all under Hart's control. Keith Frazier was given immunity by the NCAA. That hasn't been emphasized enough. All university employees and scholarship players are under a duty to cooperate with NCAA officials or lose their jobs and/or scholarships. Notice those that didn't or cut off their interview are no longer employed by SMU. This crap about stone walling the NCAA is ridiculous. Those days are over. Larry Brown was stonewalling the NCAA and it didn't work out well. Keith talked with immunity and told them about his discussions and actions of Maligi and administrative assistant -Larry Brown got caught up with failing to disclose what Frazier had already revealed to the NCAA. I don't know how you blame Hart or compliance for any of this. I think the responsibility lies pretty tightly on Larry Brown and the administrative assistant he hired and was supposed to monitor with regard to a recruit that everybody knew was a huge academic questionmark. This was not lack of institutional control based upon what I've seen

[Dutch]

First you wanted us to hold onto June Jones forever and now you want us to fire Rick Hart? WTF? Your logic has escaped me forever on this board.

there's your problem. logic and ponyfans have zero place in the same sentence. it's worth paying for a message board to not deal with the insanity here.

[PerunasHoof]

First you wanted us to hold onto June Jones forever and now you want us to fire Rick Hart? WTF? Your logic has escaped me forever on this board.

there's your problem. logic and ponyfans have zero place in the same sentence. it's worth paying for a message board to not deal with the insanity here.

No kidding. And then to blame Rick for the June situation is beyond idiotic.

[JasonB]

It's not complicated. Rick Hart is charged with running the department that has now become a national scandal. He should be fired. The incompetence shown in how the school dealt with this is sufficient alone. With all that's at stake and with all under his control he could not get a player, admin or head coach to get their story straight before meeting the NCAA.

And as for June, my opinion of him has changed but I would take the position that Rick wet the bed with that too.


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I think the school has handled it well. Did honest investigations, cooperated with the NCAA, has a very strong compliance program in place. If we tried to manipulate the player, admin, or head coach to get a story straight, that would be a very shady move on our part. We played by the rules and allowed the NCAA to investigate.

[sadderbudweiser]

The most concerning thing is how incompetent we are. Nobody made sure KF knew what class was being taken for him? That is basic.

Yeah. We really suck at cheating.

[SMUstangs22]

The most concerning thing is how incompetent we are. Nobody made sure KF knew what class was being taken for him? That is basic.

Yeah. We really suck at cheating.

The class was on towel waiving. We thought he had it down

[Mustangsabu]

How much do you think we paid the admin assistant to stop talking?


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[RGV Pony]

Hopefully enough