I hate Hawaii

[Eddie P]

One of those teams did make the NIT...

Yeah, this team SHOULD have made the NIT or NCAA'S???

Okay. It's funny what a suspended team and a few good breaks will do to people's expectations. If you thought this team was SUPPOSED to be in the post season I have some land to sell you in Sachse.

[OldPony]

BT & Big Easy- I think it is completely fair to criticize Dement for not getting to the dance with the Sasser class. I also think he sold his soul to get them and had little control over them. I believe this group today is the rebuilt team from that group but one year away. After the 1st 10 games this year, I was starting to call for his job but then something happened to this team. They started playing like a team and started looking like I had hoped for. I was really thinking that the best this team could do however was to get to the NIT. I am with you 100% if next year we don't get to the NCAA's. Not even a great recruit or promise of all being back for their senior year will change my mind. This team showed a lot of promise and if Dement can't motivate them to work hard to improve over the off season to the point that we are a dangerous team to anyone, it will be time for him to move on. My point about Doherty was that he looked pretty good at ND but when left with a dry cupboard, now he doesn't. He has had 2 years of very good recruiting but they are still too young to be a force. He may only get 1 more year. I also believe it is possible to rebuild in 3 -4 years at UNC with the fantastic support, TV time, facilities and tradition they have. We have none of that and it takes longer to do it. If we took JC's and had "jock" majors, it would have come quicker but we don't. We basically started from scratch. Had we been able to hire a name coach, it might have come quicker but no one really wanted the SMU job at the time we found Dement. I also think he has grown as a coach and may still be improving. I am solidly behind him for one more year. It is now time for him to produce or move on.

[BTPony]

Eddie P,
You're right - ONE team did make it to the NIT - you've so missed the point!

Hawaii and Nevada are in the NIT - why would SMU be any different had we won the WAC semi final game? I'm not saying we'd received an invitation but at least we'd have an arguement.

Finally, my expectations are NOT based on Fresno's suspension. My expectations are based on our performance throughout the year. We earned a #2 seed in our tournament and didn't make it to the finals. Correct me if I'm wrong, but seedings are based on wins/losses. If that's not a reason to raise my expectations, I don't know what is. Are only #1 seeds expected to reach the finals?

I have no idea what you mean by "a few good breaks". Please explain.

OldPony,
I certainly appreciate your patience. I hope you're right and Dement's able to continue the improvements. Next year!?!

[Eddie P]

You answered your own question. If you are basing your rationale on seeding (I'll get to that in a minute) then you see where my "lucky break" comment comes into play. If Fresno hadn't been suspended, we would not have been the #2 seed. We would not have been the #3 seed either. We would have played either Tulsa or Fresno in the semis and probably get our asses handed to us, assuming we made it out of the first round in the first place. So your basing your expectations on our seeding is flawed. If I'm missing something, tell me. In addition, we were underdogs to Nevada by way of Vegas. if you're ever in doubt about a game, check the line to see who is really favored.

That is my "lucky break" comment explained. So, if we were seeded #4 are you happy with how are team finished, since where we lost is where we were "supposed" to finish according to the almighty seeding.

Secondly, I'm pretty baffled by your whole assesment of things being based on seeding. You must hate Wimbledon.


[This message has been edited by Eddie P (edited 03-21-2003).]

[Eddie P]

Oh, real quick.

We were so far behind Nevada in RPI and Sagarin it's not even funny. There is NO guarantee we make the NIT if we beat Nevada and lose to Tulsa. What would have happened is that the NIT would have simply taken another team from another conference. You assume that with Nevada out, we simply slide into their position?? Nope. It's just one less WAC team in postseason play.

[cowboypony]

For what it's worth, I was in San Diego this week and the mighty SDSU played UC Santa Barbara in the NIT first round. The San Diego paper reported an "announced" crowd of 5,000 at the game. Not necessarily your marquee matchup in attendance or otherwise. Also, the big bad TT Red Raiders only drew 7,000+ at its game.

Clearly, this even makes us look worse b/c we can't even get ourselves on this level. I guess, however, the point is that if we can put a good team on the court our lack of fan suppport will not automatically keep us out of the NIT. If we put a really good product on the court, attendance isn't a factor for the NCAAs.

It's truly amazing what all could happen if we simply had GOOD teams.

[BTPony]

First, I agree, Fresno's suspension was a "lucky break" and you're right that both Tulsa and Fresno probably would've handed us our asses. However, given the circumstances as they were, we had the #2 seed and played the #3 seed and YES I expected to win.

Second, I NEVER based my opinion soley on our seedings. I've stated repeatedly we earned our seeding based on the regular season. We earned the #2 seed based on head-to-head play against other tournament teams. In case you forgot, we beat Tulsa, Nevada, Hawaii and San Diego (all post season teams)this year.

Finally, I simply believe we should've beaten any middle-of-the-pack teams in the tournament (specifically RICE, HAWAII or NEVADA) given our play this year. After all, we were 4-2 against them in the regular season.

PS: Screw Vegas. I have a vested interest in the team and don't depend on bookies to dictate my expectations. I think we should've won for the reasons described above.

Go ponies - kick some TX [deleted] tomorrow.

[BTPony]

One more thing.

Please check my earlier message. I said a win against Nevada wouldn't guarantee an invite to the NIT. I said it would give us a basis for consideration.

[Eddie P]

So glad you have a "vested interest" in the team, since nobody else on this board obviously does...of course I only say this since you felt the need to state that thought in the manner in which you did.

I guess this particular discussion is at an end since you really didn't even respond to anything I said. Conversation normally requires two persons and its obvious that you are simply picking phrases from my reply and responding to them at your leisure.

Later, Dude.

[Eddie P]

Oh, I can't help myself...

Genius...we did NOT get our #2 seed as simply as you put it...EVERYTHING had to do with our performance against the top teams in our conference. Stop babbling about head-to-records and nonsense like that. We SPLIT games against all the teams you so conveniently named, except SD, which why you bring up I have no idea. The ONLY reason we were #2 is because Fresno go bye bye. Actually, Nevada BEAT Fresno (something we didn't do) yet you continue to say we SHOULD have beaten Nevada because they were a #3 seed. At least get your facts in order...you point out "middle of the pack" teams in our conference. Genius...every one of those teams is ranked significantly higher than us in every conceivable ranking know to man which tries to measure hoops teams against each other...I just don't understand where you get your ideas from...

"middle of the pack"
"expect to beat"
"to hell with vegas"

you are good for a soundbyte, I'll admit:

"PS: Screw Vegas. I have a vested interest in the team and don't depend on bookies to dictate my expectations. I think we should've won for the reasons described above."

If you gave any valid reasons, perhaps us small minded folks could understand and celebrate your complex thought process.

P.S. Those people in "Vegas" know more about our own team at this moment than you ever will...judging from your comments on this board. Don't be upset...that's a billion dollar industry and they now what they're doing. I'll reiterate that perhaps you should check the line rather than your seedings before deciding who "should" or "should not" win a game.

Lastly, I'm dissapointed you didn't respond to the Wimbledon comment. I thought it was quite clever and appropriate. Of course, you've probably never been to Wimbledon...

[BTPony]

First, "picking phrases from my reply and responding" IS a conversation.

Second, I say we should've beaten Nevada because we proved we could in the regular season.

Third, I said my expectations aren't dictated by Vegas. Based on your logic, I shouldn't have gone to Tulsa since all we were going to do is lose. What a sorry outlook.

I guess we'll agree to disagree.

[Charleston Pony]

We clearly had an opportunity to win the WAC Tourney in Tulsa. We had beaten every team there, but it was going to take our guys playing their very best basketball for 3 consecutive days to make it happen.

When you say you expected to beat Nevada because we had beaten them before; yes. it's true we beat them in OT at Moody, but more recently they had thrashed us by 18 pts in Reno, so our guys could not have been confident going into that match-up.

I entered this thread by disageeing with a statement you made about our not making our shots because we took bad shots. My observation was that we started the Nevada game by getting plenty of good shots in the paint, but threw up brick after brick to fall behind early. Like it or not, we fielded a very young team this year and I felt like they played with "tight collars" against Nevada...it just might have been because they remembered getting crushed by that same group just a couple of weeks earlier.

The fact is that we were a very mediocre team this year. Our RPI places us at the top of the middle third of all Division I teams and that's about right. The good news is that we have 4 starters who will be with us 2 more years, so I do remain optimistic that we are in a position to show improvement year after year and will soon be a post season participant.

NOW...back to the title of this topic. Why the hate for Hawaii? I'd like to see them beat Minnesota and keep the WAC in the spotlight. Go Hawaii & Go Tulsa. Anything the conference accomplishes in the post season helps us as far as I'm concerned.

[EastStang]

I think Hopkins threw up some off balance stuff early, but I agree that on the rest of the early shots guys were squared up nicely and had time, but just bricked the shots and that happens with a young team. Look at UNCW last night some kid who almost never shoots goes 8 for 8 from the three point zone, and then Maryland wins on an off-balance prayer shot. I agree with you, I hope Hawaii wins and Tulsa wins. It makes our conference look better. As I said before the WAC tournament if we didn't get to the finals, no way we get invited to the NIT and even then it would be difficult.

[Eddie P]

BT Pony: "Third, I said my expectations aren't dictated by Vegas. Based on your logic, I shouldn't have gone to Tulsa since all we were going to do is lose. What a sorry outlook."

Yeah BT, that's my outlook exactly. When I actually pay for people's rooms just as an incentive to come up to Tulsa and support the team...yeah, that's my outlook exactly. You always end your posts with something incredibly stupid...

I guess we will agree to disagree... unfortunately you have nary a logical thought to be heard. Are you sure you want to be a nightclub comic?

[BTPony]

I wasn't challenging your support of SMU basketball, I was challenging your outlook. It's nice to hear you expected us to win. Obviously, your dedication to the team is first rate. We need more passionate fans like you.