Billy Tubbs Back Again

[Stallion]

Nobody has mentioned it-but Billy Tubbs who has been serving as AD at Lamar hired himself as Head Basketball Coach yesterday. I bet he has an NCAA tourney caliber team after 2 recruiting seasons filled with JC transfers.

[BigEasyPony]

And he'll have them on probation shortly thereafter. Billy Tubbs is an absolute sleazebag.

[Diehard Pony]

I agree he is a sleezebag, but our record against him is absolutely abysmal. He consistently outcoached Dement, even when he had inferior talent.

[Stallion]

I could be wrong but I don't think Tubbs has had a team on probation.

[PX]

No probation, just plenty of embarassments. TCU did make the NCAA tournament once during Tubbs 8 years as head coach, losing to Florida State in the first round, but the team and the school also eventually became the butt of constant jokes in the national media over the conduct of its players, and Tubbs permanently alienated local high school players and coaches by his treatment of Brian Brookehart. Is that what you want? Is that the trade you want to make? TCU gave Tubbs every financial resource it had, let him recruit absolutely anyone, and tried to ignore the embarassments for years. Out of that they got one first round NCAA tournament game. Is that the price you want to pay?

[Diehard Pony]

No, PX, it's not what I want. But I do want someone who can coach the players he recruits so that the Billy Tubbs of the world don't consistently come into Moody and win, regardless of their relative talent level. I'd also like to see the post-season again before I pass away.

[Stallion]

Chill out PX. All I did was mention that he is back in coaching. I have NEVER suggested we recruit a whole team of JC players like Tubbs-just that we be able to supplement a strong nucleus of high school players with 2-3 players to give the team the added maturity it needs to make it to the next level-YES THAT IS WHAT I WANT! I want to be able to compete on a relatively even basis as the rest of the schools in Texas. SHOCKING!!!!!!! I know the "loyal" SMU fan would rather [deleted] all day about firing every single coach unlucky enough to take an SMU job but my position is in the vast majority across the country. The rest of you are fooling yourself if you think the SMU program will reach anything approaching its traditional accomplishments without yes even further concessions.

[PX]

I dont need to chill anything, I'm fine. I am also in favor of supplementing our reccruiting occasionally with JC players. But, I'm going to repeat what I said a few months ago. I dont see a real institutional impediment to doing that. There were 4 Junior College players on the roster when Mike Dement became head coach. He's signed 2 since, and I know of a few others we've pursued but who chose to to sign elsewhere. There have been JC transfers in our other sports, as well, and a large number of current SMU students are from junior colleges. Its not as impossible as its being made out to be.

SMU doesnt accept everything for transfer that some schools do, but they accept enough. Our communications department seems to take pretty much anything. Particularly if you begin recruiting them early, even when they are in high school. Establish an early relationship, stay with them while they are in JC, and make some suggestions to them about what classes will transfer to SMU. If you are recruiting a JC player late in his freshman year and early sophomore, he would have plenty of time to take the classes that can get him into school. It takes some work but its not impossible.

Maybe you dont actually want this kind of compromise, but you have to realize that every time you drone on and on and Tubbs and JC players and non-qualifiers, etc., you make it sound like thats what you want. When you say that we cant be competitive with our conference mates because of the corners they cut, the impression you give the reader is that you want to be able to do the same thing. It may not be what you mean, but thats the perception that comes across.

What precisely are the extra concessions that you feel are needed?

[Stallion]

I've said it a million times-Minimum NCAA standards for freshman qualification. Of course, this may no longer be relevant in the future because of changes in those standards but I would have no problem signing a kid who was within range of getting his SAT if he intended to take it again even before August not just signing date. I would like for the football coaches to have the option of taking 3-4 JC players a year-therefore you might have up to 8 at any one time. I would like for the BB coaches to have the option of having 2-3 JC players at any one time. You know that this is well within a conservative admission policy among NCAA schools and in fact when you signed with SMU we had more. I point out the difference in admission policies at other schools to show how liberal their admission policies are in comparison to even what I'm proposing and because there is an incredible naivete on this board of the quality of the talent on our opposition. I am philosophically opposed to admitting non-qualifiers, partial qualifiers(except perhaps for the unusual kid with a documented learning disability but intellectual capacity-I really think the Big 12 policy on that is pretty fair and commendable) and hordes of JC/non/partial qualifiers like Fresno, Louisiana Tech, Hawaii, and San Jose. Anybody that follows the WAC Forum should know that as I've given the supporters of those schools unmitigated hell about having 25-45 JC players and up to 24 NON-Qualifiers and god knows how many partial qualifiers. This is not a revolutionary proposal. As for your comments about the lack of hindrance to JC transfers I'll just state once again that SMU hasn't shown up on a favorites list of even a single JC player according to Rivals or the Insiders in either FB or BB for several years. By and large the JC kids we have signed have been almost without exception the Billy Pharis, Pages and Josh Ihde who were in JC merely because they were Division 1 transfers or were not good enough to get a ship out of high school even though they were fully qualified.

[This message has been edited by Stallion (edited 03-22-2003).]

[PX]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Stallion:
<B> I've said it a million times-Minimum NCAA standards for freshman qualification. Of course, this may no longer be relevant in the future because of changes in those standards but I would have no problem signing a kid who was within range of getting his SAT if he intended to take it again even before August not just signing date.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know that we have already done this. We've already offered scholarships to and signed guys who did not have minimum qualifying scores, in the hopes that they would raise their score before September.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Stallion:
I would like for the football coaches to have the option of taking 3-4 JC players a year-therefore you might have up to 8 at any one time. I would like for the BB coaches to have the option of having 2-3 JC players at any one time.[/B]</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As I said, the mens basketball team had 4 JC transfers when Mike Dement became head coach in 1995, as well as one transfer from a 4 year school.

No one has told Mike Dement or Phil Bennett that they dont have the option of recruiting any number of JC players. Ask them. Either coach, ask them and see what they say.



<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Stallion:
As for your comments about the lack of hindrance to JC transfers I'll just state once again that SMU hasn't shown up on a favorites list of even a single JC player according to Rivals or the Insiders in either FB or BB for several years. By and large the JC kids we have signed have been almost without exception the Billy Pharis, Pages and Josh Ihde who were in JC merely because they were Division 1 transfers or were not good enough to get a ship out of high school even though they were fully qualified.

[This message has been edited by Stallion (edited 03-22-2003).][/B]</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Will Chavis, currently the starting PG at Texas Tech visited SMU, was admitted, and we were his first choice until Tech hired Bobby Knight. If Rivals chose not to list that, it doesnt change the fact that it happened. Their omission doesnt mean anything definitive about the recruit, it means their lists are incomplete. I believe Rivals also didnt have us listed as one of Richuel Masseys choices, either. Until the day after he committed to us.

If your real complaint is that the JC transfers the basketball team has brought in recently havent been particularly productive, I will conceded that point. I should point out though, that of the 5 transfers on the team in 1995, Rich, Tijanni, Bracey and Kwame Brown were all at least part time starters, and Rich was one of the teams best players at that time. The last one, Andy Bliss, never played because of a major knee injury he incurred before coming to SMU.

If you say that we need to recruit more and better JC players, I agree completely. I disagree that it is impossible to do.

[Stallion]

Phil Bennett after a career of going after JCs at every school he coached along with his 3 assistants from Kansas St (including 1 former JC Head Coach) with their 42 JC transfers didn't all of a sudden decide one day that they would handicap their ability to compete by refusing to even recruit a single JC transfer. Come on-you can't be that naive.

[This message has been edited by Stallion (edited 03-22-2003).]

[PX]

I dont think I am naive, and I am a bit surprised that the football coaches didnt sign any JC players this year. Bennett told me earlier that he was interested in recruiting JC players, and during the season we seemed to be pursuing some. Perhaps its time to ask Bennett again where he stands on this and what his plans are. Bennett, after all, is the only one who can give you a real answer in this regard. Thats part of why I suggested you ask the coaches above, they are the only ones who can give you a real answer to this. Bennett is usually very open and willing to talk to anyone. If you tried, I would be surprised if he wasnt willing to discuss this with you. Try after the spring game, or one of the scrimmages.

[Stallion]

why should I ask him-he's commented on it several times-and his answer is that the plan is to build through high school players-that's a politically correct answer because he can't come out and say the reaons he's not recruiting JC players. The only rumor about a JC of consequence that we were allededly recruiting was Paris Hamilton and each time he or his family was quoted they never once mentioned SMU. Remember SMU's staff has more JC contacts than just about any school in the country-ACTIONS speak louders than WORDS.

[PX]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Stallion:
<B> why should I ask him-he's commented on it several times-and his answer is that the plan is to build through high school players-that's a politically correct answer because he can't come out and say the reaons he's not recruiting JC players. The only rumor about a JC of consequence that we were allededly recruiting was Paris Hamilton and each time he or his family was quoted they never once mentioned SMU. Remember SMU's staff has more JC contacts than just about any school in the country-ACTIONS speak louders than WORDS.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You should ask him because I've found through personal experience that direct face-to-face communication is the best way to get direct answers that may be politically incorrect, or outside the party line. You should ask him becuase he's an information source, and you seem to crave as much information as possible, particularly about recruiting. None of the recruiting mags and databases can give you more or better information than he can. Establishing a relationship with someone can be beneficial to both parties. You should ask him, because it cant possibly hurt. Whats to lose by simply talking to the man and hearing what he says? If you disagree with his opinions, thats a decision you can make on your own afterward. Going straight to the source can bear fruits, and you wont know otherwise if you dont even try.

I dont understand why you would be so reluctant just to talk, but thats your decision.