Maybe Roy Williams will stay at KU after all

[EastStang]

Sort of like the Iraqui information minister saying, the Americans will never take Baghdad.

[OldPony]

Al Bohl has threatened KU with his version of a "Scorched earth" policy. He is going to say that Roy fired him so he can try to embarrass Roy and KU's president. He is also trying to get Mangino to help him but Magino doesn'tlike him either even though Al hired him. Poor Al has no friends. And he seemed like such an upstanding guy when at Fresno, long noted for their adherence to the rules.

[The CPC]

All a moot point now. Carolina's got a brand new coach. It'll be interesting to see who Kansas goes after now. after they hire a new AD.....

[BigEasyPony]

Early favorite is Bill Self, who was an assistant under Larry Brown at KU. If Self doesn't take it and my bet is that he will, they'll look to Tom Crean (Marquette), Mark Few (Gonzaga) or Mike Brey (Notre Dame). If Self takes the KU job, Crean is expected to go to Illinois and the UWM coach will go to Marquette.

Roy Williams just made things very interesting and he made Tarheel fans very happy. This should pump some life into the Duke-UNC rivalry.

[OldPony]

Roy always said he wasn't the smartest guy in the world. Now he proved it. He must like being Dean's assistant. I guess when he turned down UNC 3 years ago that he meant he would stay at KU because he had 4 eventual first round NBA draft choices on his team and EVEN he might win a Nat'l Championship with that talent. Poor KU hasn't won the national championship since the year Before Roy wnet to KU.
KU seems to like Self and, I hear, that Self has an exclusion in his Illinois contract should KU make him an offer. The question for KU is how to keep Roy from stealing their recruits. Do they wait and do a national search for an AD or do they allow the interim AD to try to find a coach and then hire the new AD? Not a good situation for them right now but KU was outstanding before Roy, during Roy and will be after Roy.
I wish we could go after people like Bill Self, Mark Few etc. If we could sell out Moody every game, a lot more people would view SMU as a good job.

[Dement-ed]

Hope Roy Williams enjoys being a caddy for Coach K and Gary Williams.

[BigEasyPony]

OP,

Seems you're tougher on Roy Williams than you are on Dement. Your points are good, but Williams is a Carolina guy and that ultimately is what won out on this one. He was at KU for 15 years so he certainly has demonstrated his loyalty to that program. I think he regretted not taking the UNC job last time and probably swore to himself that he wouldn't turn them down again.

You can bet KU will hire their ball coach before an AD. The reason is simple: What is the more important job at KU?

I too wish that SMU can fill up Moody, but I disagree on that it prevents us from hiring a good coach. The only way we can fill Moody on a consistent basis is if we have a consistent winning basketball program. If we were to have a great year that would help, but we must sustain that success. I think that the athletic administration needs to show some vision and commitment and go out and pay top dollar to get a really good basketball coach. That will help show area alumni that SMU basketball is committed to winning basketball. Until that happens we'll continue to draw lackluster crowds to Moody.

GO SMU!!

[OldPony]

BigEasy- My point is that SMU can not hire a top basketball coach. If all it took were money, we could. We have old facilities, recruiting problems with our current major degree offerings, no tradition and an alumni base which doesn't care. We make excuses as to why people don't go to games. It is our conference, its because we only win 15-18 games a year, its becuase the marketing department is lousy, and a million other excuses.
The truth is that neither SMU students nor alumni care in any number. What proven coach would take that job?
We all love SMU but if we are honest with ourselves, this is not an attractive basketball coaching job from any viewpoint. I wish it were different but this is what we are dealing with. We aren't attractive to top program assistants or small school winners. If we change coaches, we will be taking a gamble that we can get someone better than Dement. If we are wrong, the progress made over the last 8 years could go down the drain. Dement has done a good job of reestablishing Dallas recruiting connections. A new coach is likely to lose that momentum unless it is Jimmy Tubbs. Jimmy is an unproven coach without nearly the suceess that Dement had when he came to SMU. All that said, if Dement doesn't show some real gain next year, then it is time to change and take the best gamble we can.

[OldPony]

BTW- Big Easy- Roy is a Carolina guy but KU took a gamble on him when no other name basketball school would have. He was not the top assistant at UNC when he got the KU job and KU had won the national championship the year before he came. He owes KU big time. He stayed for 15 years because there are no better jobs. His heart finally won out to go back to UNC but it is interesting that when he was loaded with Hinrich, Collison, Gooden and Boshee, he turned down UNC. Now that his big guns are gone, UNC looks better. He talks about the UNC family but didn't Daddy Dean just fire one of his and Roy's sons ie Doherty?

[Stallion]

SMU had the right Coach for the job-Dave Bliss-who once he saw the Model he was expected to produce under got the hell out of Dodge before the start of the next season. Many of the obstacles still remain and are in direct conflict with the manner in which Bliss has built his programs at all locations he has been.

[BigEasyPony]

There is no question that KU is one of the premier programs in America, certainly a top five (5) program with Duke, Kentucky, UNC and a few others among them Indiana and UCLA.

You're also correct that he had some great ballplayers three (3) years ago, but it's not like he's leaving the cupboard bare. Granted Hinrich and Collison are graduating, but Keith Langford, Aaron Miles, Wayne Simien, and Jeff Graves will have KU back in the hunt again. Additionally, he signed a top 5 class for next year including David Padgett, JR Giddens and Omar Wilkes. Those guys are serious ballplayers that will compete immediately for playing time b/c they are so talented.

Losing a coach sucks especially to a program with the stature of KU b/c it makes you feel like the guy treated you like a doormat, but the bottom line is that people ultimately are free to choose where they go. KU knew that Roy Williams would one day be presented with the opportunity to be the HC at UNC and he got that chance twice. His heart was with UNC and that leaves a void at KU.

I don't feel bad for KU or other programs with that statuture; however, b/c they at least have the ability to go get a great coach like Bill Self or Tom Crean. I feel bad for the SMU's of the world who when they hire a coach and he is successful and leaves we have to start over by taking a chance on some new guy.

Also, loyalty is a funny thing nowadays do you think if Mike Dement won 25 games next year and were offered the job at a name school he would stay b/c SMU was loyal to him? Depends on the school, but probably not. That my friend sucks!!!

BTW you're right Stallion, Dave Bliss was the right coach, but he took that New Mexico job b/c they pack the Pit with 10,000 fans. Well, he got tired of them and they got tired of him and he wound up at Baylor.

[This message has been edited by BigEasyPony (edited 04-15-2003).]

[OldPony]

You are right that KU is a premier program and no one should feel sorry for them. Most coaches would kill for that job. My point was that Williams turned down UNC when he was loaded at KU. The cupboard is far from bare but there is not the talent there that exisited when williams turned down the UC job. Williams may have followed his heart but his heart was with KU when KU was loaded. Williams has lied to KU, is now trying to get his top recruits to go to UNC and lost any respect at KU that he had.
That said, I wish we had KU's basketball problems. The Smu job is not as attractive as when Bliss took it. Dement would surely take a high profile job if offered. He hasn't said that he would retire at SMU, that SMU family is the most important thing to him and that he owes his loyaties to the kids he recruited above all else. These are all sttements by Willims.
KU will turn out to be the winner if they get Self and their program can certainly be as successful as it was under Williams. It was more successful under Brown.
SMU must do something to get its alums and/or the city of Dallas involved in attendance before this program can be thought of as a good job and be attractive to any proven coach. We get what we deserve when we don't support sports with our attendance.

[Stallion]

Dave Bliss left because of Ken Pye PERIOD. If you have ever heard him talk about where he almost took the SMU program until Pye came to town you would know that he felt he could have created a nationally prominent program at SMU. The moral of this story is don't count on landing or retaining quality coaches until you have put a Model in place which would allow them to compete on an even level with their competitors.

[This message has been edited by Stallion (edited 04-16-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Stallion (edited 04-16-2003).]

[NCPony]

Old Pony-
Roy was highly recommended to KU in '89 by Dean Smith to the then AD (Hendricks?) to replace Larry Brown- yet another UNC guy. Roy may have not been the #2 coach on the UNC staff at that time, but everyone knew Bill Gutheridge wasn't leaving Dean's side. Roy did coach the UNC JV team at the time and you can bet that's where Dean saw he would be a great coach. Roy and the old KU AD became great friends and I believe that their sons both went to UNC together. The KU-UNC family tree doesn't seem to fork too much.
As for firing one of their beloved sons, Doherty brought that on himself. Although I believe that a coach should choose his own coaching staff, Doh should have kept Phil Ford to keep the elders happy. Doherty hurt himself with how he treated his players and how he spoke to them. Dean and Gutheridge both took Doh aside to let him know he was going overboard and he never really seemed to heed their warnings. Also, was UNC really going to keep Doh and watch 2-3 players transfer out? [deleted] Baddour wasn't about to bet his job on that and Dean wasn't going to let that happen to the family.

[OldPony]

Dean- a KU grad is personna non grata at KU now. Yes he recommended Roy. Yes, the "family" fired their son Matt. Yes- Roy is taking his assistants to UNC just as Matt did. Yes- Roy is again an assistant to Dean.
Newest t-shirt to spring up in Lawrence- "I love my Self".
Stallion- I agree that is why Bliss left. However, SMU was a more attractive job when Bliss took it. Even if the model were chsnged, SMU is not as attractive as it was when Bliss took the job. Differences-SWC vs. WAC and Regional competitors who helped fill Moody. The model needs change but so do a lot of other things right now.