College athletics out of control?

[Charleston Pony]

this Baylor story is getting really ugly. Meanwhile, you have to wonder what the real truth is at Alabama, Tennessee and a lot of other "big time" programs that have been getting negative press of late. When millions of dollars are at stake, I guess nothing should really surprise me, but it still does.

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[No Cal Pony]

CP, read the story and the thread you posted. Can't agree more with you. It is amazing to think that the bigger programs are so clean. Look at was come out about michigan. Look at what goes on at alabama. You are right about tenn. Even while living in the Sacramento area did rumors come flying about as a top player for the area went there. No one will probably ever know all that happens around there. Same with most of the sec schools I feel. You should hear some stories my wife has about florida, where she went. I was in Los Angeles late 1980s. My step brother was at a big LA city program, but faced a kid who went on big time. He landed at lsu, where he got the best deal. Including the fact that suddenly his mom could by a big new house.

The old SWC was no walk in the park either. We all know that, and the cover-ups that continue today at ut and a$m are pathetic. Sad state of affairs indeed.

In the meantime, here is to SMU.

Go Ponies!

[SoCal_Pony]

People who believe college athletics can be run ‘cleanly’ are either living in fantasyland or worse, perpetrating their deception on naïve others for personal gain.

I view it much like prostitution. Big business in which the pimps, i.e. large schools and networks, rake in billions while expecting the prostitute/athlete, at great risk to their own bodies, to be given crumbs. Add to it emotionally charged alumni who chat about it year-round and are willing to travel half way across the country to see it, and you have a recipe for disaster.

A can’t-miss prospect like Eric Dickerson, in a free-market, could easily command over $2M. Instead he is expected to play for free. That is simply too great a disparity in our free society.

Unless the rules are radically altered, college ‘cheating’ will continue as long as prostitution.

[KnuckleStang]

Dickerson was not expected to play for "free," and niether is any college athlete on a scholarship. They get access to a tuition-free college education, certainly no small chunk of change in this day and age. Many young people would kill for this. But of course, they don't play football. If the athletes choose not to apply themselves and earn their degree, well, that's their problem.

The "pimps and hoes" analogy is valid to a degree. With the amount of money being made in college sports, many of the NCAA rules are ridiculously strict. But how much does it cost to go to college? The value of a free college degree is getting lost on all of this. Nobody's asking scholarship athletes to play for free.

[This message has been edited by KnuckleStang (edited 08-16-2003).]

[No Cal Pony]

While I generally agree with you KnuckleStang, the reality is that the vast majority of the kids playing D1 football and basketball don't care about the degree. They are their to develop their forture and fame. They want and expect more. Thaat is both fiancial and otherwise.

Go Ponies!

[Charleston Pony]

Have to disagree with you there, No Cal. The vast majority of Division I student athletes are appreciative of getting an all expense paid education. The truth is that very few who play Division I football really aspire to play professionally, but a lot of those who do are the real problem. I'd venture a guess that the majority of those guys who have NFL aspirations are not as serious about their educational opportunity and given an option to sign a pro contract coming right out of high school, would not even be playing college ball. The problem is that it is easy to recognize those guys coming out of high school, so whether they are college material or not, some Division I coach is going to try to get him into school and some college president is going to allow his admission...to help Football Factory U win more games.

[GoRedGoBlue]

PIMP AND HO: You forget that the educational institutions spent the money to have 100MM dollars stadiums and alumni networks necessary to stage events called football games.

This argument is like Tiger demanding more money when he wins than the prize money for each particular tournament. I'd like to see him go and play himself at Dallas Country Club and see how many people come out and watch...don't forget he will have to coordinate the 1000 person volunteer staff and also pay a few hundred people to work the tournament.

This is totally rediculous. The schools don't 'make' money off of the football athletes, they just get revenue for that sport that subsidizes the rest of the athletic department deficits. If you were to 'pay' the football player, you'd be mandated to 'pay' the women's field hockey team just the same (remember TITLE IX??). Then how much 'money' would the athletic departments make??

[gostangs]

Couldn't aa major part of the problem be fixed by letting the ones that are obvious pro athlete talent declare early - like basketball - if they can compete, they can skip college completely - both the athletes and the universities would be better off -

[SoCal_Pony]

CBS and the NCAA currently have a 6-year $11 Billion dollar deal to broadcast the NCAA March Madness basketball tournament. ABC has a $525 million, 7-year agreement to show the four Bowl Championship Series games.

This discussion is not about field hockey or other non-revenue sports, but FB and BB only (that is precisely why these other sports don’t have the scandals that FB and BB do).

If you don’t believe these superstar kids are worth more than their education that so many don’t even vigilantly pursue, explain Chris Bosh. One day, GA Tech willing to pay his education, next day, Toronto Raptors willing to pay him millions.

Gostangs, I personally don’t think the NCAA wants these money-making kids to leave early, look at Maurice Clarett, however to do believe that is the trend because these star kids understand their true value.

Finally, GRG, with your assessment that “The schools don't 'make' money off of the football athletes, they just get revenue for that sport that subsidizes the rest of the athletic department deficits”……I would advise you not to pursue a career in corporate finance, government finance, maybe, but not corporate.

[OldPony]

Actually I get tired of the cr$p about poor football players earning their schools so much money and not getting any of it. Back when college athletes were really a part of the school in most places, the crowds still came. I believe schollies should include some living money but athletes are compensated now with an education, room and board. It is also the only place they get to audition for the pros. It would be fine with me if the ones who think they are ready for pro to go straight in and bypass college. A lot of them don't belong on campuses anyway.

[SoCal_Pony]

OP,

Besides the leather helmets, the difference between today and when you attended school is this unbelievable amount of money being tossed about.

I agree that it is a real problem, and I certainly don’t advocate paying these kids anything near fair-market value. Your proposal seems more reasoned.

My point is that given the growing disparity between what schools rake-in versus how the student-athlete is compensated, expect more scandals or greater cover-ups.

[OldPony]

My point is that it is college football that is the draw, not necessarily the talent on the field. Competitiveness is what it is all about and the TV money would remain the same. College Presidents need to get some cojones along with the NCAA and start requiring athletes to be students. There are many deserving good athletes that, however, can't really go to school and enjoy the college experience unless they cheat. In terms of today's money, about $300/mo spending money as part of a scholarship would allow these people to really attend a school and feel a part of things other than athletics. Colleges must get a grip on who they are inviting on campus through football and basketball programs though. If they don't, Baylor type incidents will become more commonplace. The number of assaults, rapes in recent years and now a murder should be a wake up call.
BTW- Can't you still put your helmets in your back pocket when you have finished playing and you are walking to the malt shop holding hands with your girlfriend? Next you'll probably tell me that these sissys' want face masks.

[Stallion]

the fact is that the NCAA doesn't limit a kid from going to the pros-the NFL does until his sophmore year-the NBA doesn't. Let the money hungry kids go pro-it will save all of us a lot of problems with kids that don't belong in college.

[OldPony]

Actually I believe the NFL has an age requirement. There have been players who didn't attend college. With so many parents now holding their kids back a year or two, there may be more 19-20 year old high school graduates in years to come. I think what Stallion means is that the NFL has decided not to allow players to enter the draft IF they are in college before their sophomore year. The point remains though. The College Presidents and the NCAA have to strengthen requirements of eligibility for athletes to be able to get scholarships. SMU seems to have a fairly balanced standard. Unfortunately, others don't so we suffer when it comes to competition on the field. KU, for instance, should show marked improvement this year. They took 13 (?) JC transfers. This was unheard of there until they tired of losing and hired Mangino a couple of years ago. That's why the Presidents and NCAA must be the leaders in this area.

[EastStang]

The academics argument doesn't completely hold water. If it did, then why would any kid pick A&M over Rice. NC State over Duke. They are at those programs for exposure, money, and thirdly for an education. What is interesting is that playing for Big time school doesn't get you into the NFL or NBA. How many draft choices in the NFL come from 1-AA or mid-major schools? The reason that Big time programs pay is because their competitors on the field pay. If the NCAA had the stones to crack down, you would see this payments disappear in a fraction of a second. The fact is that they whack an SMU or a Baylor to draw attention away from an A&M or a UT.