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DFW/Texas Recruits

Postby deucetz » Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:35 pm

Does anyone know how recruiting works? Hoops may be the best person to answer.

I want to know how can SMU get more elite prospects? Recruiting is the life line of basketball and I really like the recruits we are getting, but many have not panned out. I understand the challenges of this year due to the sanctions and Larry leaving, but I'm not seeing too many elite recruits--especially in DFW/Texas--that we are heavily recruiting for 2018 and 2019. SMU has been ranked for the last 4 years, and I'm not sure how much buzz is surrounding the program. I hope that this march will be positive buzz if SMU does well in the tournament.

I like how we are building the team, with great transfers but we have whiffed on a lot of recruits the last few years. I believe most of it was done by Larry, but now that our staff is built for recruiting, how long do these type of things take? I'm not trying to compete with the bluebloods but, instead, the type of recruits you see in the Big East.

In addition, what type of guys will Jank be looking for? My guess is high IQ and athletic.
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Re: DFW/Texas Recruits

Postby Smulaw90 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:06 pm

I am not a recruiter or former coach. But I did sleep at a Holiday Inn last week. Also, I'm a lawyer and therefore, a self professed, and impressed, know it all.

I wonder the same thing. It seems when LB was here we had interests from Frazier, Mudiay and other Top 50 recruits. But watching Villanova last year has changed my perspective on what is sustainable. Also, watching the maturity of last year's team and this year's team has given me the feeling that I would rather we have 4 year players with skill and IQ than a superstar Top 25 recruit that wants to come here and own the team. See, Phi Slamma Jamma 30 for 30 and Rob Williams. When you dance with that devil, you have to endure the whole party they bring.

I would note that between Semi, Ben M, Ben E, Shake, Jarray, and Sterling we've had almost zero drama or concerns. I love watching them on the court and how they "coach one another." No throat slashes, vein injections, self promotions. Zero. Semi occasionally flexes, but he has to do that to stretch his Man arms.

I watch some of these Top 50 guys and think, "most are not worth the headaches that come with them." And the best ones, we can't get right now. Nothing wrong with being Gonzaga, Butler, Villanova, or the like.

IMO, winning will take care of itself in many ways. While we've won a lot in the last four years, two of those years went relatively unnoticed outside basketball diehards. One we get in the big Dance and take down Baylor or Duke, we will be fully recognized.
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Re: DFW/Texas Recruits

Postby deucetz » Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:12 pm

I definitely agree 3 and 4 year guys are essential to build the program but sprinkling in a high 4 and 5 star recruit cannot hurt. I think the key is getting those highly rated players that will listen and follow instructions.

Duke is yearly able to get those recruits coachable highly rated player but they also are Duke and have won a lot. In addition, to having a coach K with such a long tenure and influence on the game.

I hope Jank can be like that for SMU. I hope we are loyal and give him everything he needs to be successful. If we are strapped for cash take it from football :P
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Re: DFW/Texas Recruits

Postby PonyTime » Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:42 pm

Probably should take a look at how Butler, Gonzaga, Wichita State manage to recruit. For that matter, throw in Marquette, Xavier, Villanova and other non Power 5 teams.
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Re: DFW/Texas Recruits

Postby BUS » Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:00 pm

Please lets not get into the local AAU game and/or how it is played. Two examples are the Dead Eye shooter from Rockwall and our very own Keith F.

When people fill you up with SKY dreams all your life, its hard to be normal. That is what a ton of kids get in theses elite training programs.

Let SMU look for the guy that wants an education, a good guy and a over the top talented guy. I like the no drama, i'm hanging here, making connections, having fun and after school have a home to feel good about guy.

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Re: DFW/Texas Recruits

Postby Pony_Law » Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:10 pm

You want to get solid top 200 guys that you coach up and guys the coaches are high on regardless of recruiting ranking service. If you do that you will have consistent success (conference championships, NCAA tournament fields, top 25 ranks)that turns special every now and then when you can grab an elite player via transfer or whatever else.

We are never going to recruit like a blue blood because we aren't Duke or Kansas, and we don't cheat like UNC and Kentucky. We can recruit like Butler, BE teams ect and do just fine because we are well coached.
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Re: DFW/Texas Recruits

Postby BUS » Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:45 pm

right
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Re: DFW/Texas Recruits

Postby CalallenStang » Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:28 pm

From years of observation...Hoopmanx can tell you where I'm wrong.

College basketball recruiting for ELITE recruits is all about a relationship between a college program and AAU teams/Big Shoe and in many cases, handlers.

The top-tier guys (can't miss NBA guys like Kevin Durant) are often placed at a program that's more about building the personal brand. Big Shoe is seriously involved here, and parents/handlers a bit in the background. Outside of extreme one-off cases like Mudiay, SMU's not a serious player here and won't be until we are a P5 program on ESPN for our small games and ABC/CBS for the big games. We simply don't do enough for the player's brand.

The next tier is an occasional place for us to play. They are guys that, in high school, look like they need a couple years to be in the NBA, but they'll get there. Parents and/or handlers play a larger role than Big Shoe here. From this group, we need more Shake Miltons and fewer Keith Fraziers (although I really wanted Keith to succeed here).

The tier after that are the lower-four stars and higher-three stars. Think Sterling, Ben, Jarrey. In my mind, this is where the bulk of our effort should be if we want to build a sustainable program. Recruiting here is more about a relationship between the kid, the kid's family, and the staff. Think football recruiting, but add some influence from AAU coaches here.
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Re: DFW/Texas Recruits

Postby 78pony » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:14 am

Good post, Calallen.
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Re: DFW/Texas Recruits

Postby sadderbudweiser » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:35 am

Good thoughts...

Of our six right now: two seniors, two juniors and two sophs...how many did the "experts" predict should have a pro career?

Answer: One...Semi.

Shake had "pro tools."

Sterling had family ties.

Ben? Ben E? Jarrey?

All six are solid citizens.


Now look at the guys who "could" still be on our roster today. five guys....one a can't miss.

Bernardi, Frazier, Barefield and the Aussies.


Bernardi's transfer was for family reasons. No harm no foul.

Frazier was a can't miss. He missed.

Barefield went immediately to LB's doghouse and got out. No harm, no foul.

The aussies were both certain they would be going pro ( :roll: )

Sed and the doughboy both have domineering parents.


You go after the best possible, most level headed, most stable family, coachable types you can regardless of the number of "stars" after their name. You win some, you lose some.


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Re: DFW/Texas Recruits

Postby hoopmanx » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:08 am

I think this discussion starts w some basics, baselines. It's not how many kids we're mentioned with. Who we went to see on a one -off, or who any number of us retweet or tweet about kids we're mentioned with. It's about real targets, official visits. Over the Brown/Jank era, kids who visit tend to commit. There are exceptions, but only a handful that mattered.

Also, big boards get built in a variety of ways. Make up of the staff, who their natural 'ins' are with, and who is in that pipeline. Where are we leveraged? Needs? Who can read? Culture fits. Maturity, Stability, Ceiling, play now or later etc. Spend time and energy on those that fall through the strainer, get them to visit, close.
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Re: DFW/Texas Recruits

Postby hoopmanx » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:37 am

Specifically, as it relates to our staff. I'm more than ok w/how we recruit right now. The way Jank put this staff together was exactly, to the move, what you do for culture continuity , building from within, reassigning roles and adding specialists. Sustainable.

Questions arise. This program was built on profile transfers like Whitt, can Jank and crew get one of those? What will their first class look like?. See MacMurray and the '17 class, not to mention Whitt, who I've been told in an all league type kid as junior/senior. Landrum is all athlete, high ceiling, needs to learn game/patience etc, probably more a soph-senior contributor. Douglas can be special, high character kid, gets grades. Chargois is high IQ, high skill level, that needs body work, but has a good frame. Ray will be a junkyard dog. We have other bigs targeted for last ship this cycle. Transfer.

Don't get caught up in rankings, 50-200 are a toss up depending on system, style, opportunity. Evaluation matters. This staff is good for the foreseeable future on the trail. I'm sure eventually, after no fall off, we can get back in on Top 50 kids. When we get off ship sanction and have 13 to give, will be fun
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Re: DFW/Texas Recruits

Postby deucetz » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:37 am

Thanks for everyone's insight.
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Re: DFW/Texas Recruits

Postby hoopmanx » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:53 am

Some of the PGs we were in on, late Spring last year had huge years. The kids we've wanted and missed on over the years, all produce for the most part. Some dynamically. Right now, as a program, we're humming along. Top 25 yearly, no perceivable drop off in sight. NBA style kids in program, family environment. Mostly, beyond all the minutia, we're a program others hate to play. For years now, we're athletic and disciplined. All that's left is March runs, which is going to happen at some point, based on last 5 year window.

BTW, if Morris got 7, Jank should get more than 4. I'm not about putting the cart before horse, but there is some thought that fball spending, hurt our basketball contracts and perks post Brown.
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Re: DFW/Texas Recruits

Postby SMUstangs22 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:07 am

hoopmanx wrote:Some of the PGs we were in on, late Spring last year had huge years. The kids we've wanted and missed on over the years, all produce for the most part. Some dynamically. Right now, as a program, we're humming along. Top 25 yearly, no perceivable drop off in sight. NBA style kids in program, family environment. Mostly, beyond all the minutia, we're a program others hate to play. For years now, we're athletic and disciplined. All that's left is March runs, which is going to happen at some point, based on last 5 year window.

BTW, if Morris got 7, Jank should get more than 4. I'm not about putting the cart before horse, but there is some thought that fball spending, hurt our basketball contracts and perks post Brown.


I slightly disagree. Keyword: slightly. Yes we are humming along but a drop off could be sooner if (big if) we are wrong about multiple kids in this class. This class to me seems crucial for transitioning to the post Semi/Shake era whenever that may be. It is this class that we need to be spot on to get us to post scholarship reductions still humming.

I have no reason to be nervous other than I think there is a lot at stake and we need some of these incoming players to be major success. After all we have been spoiled to have players that impact the game to the level of Nic Moore and Semi for 3 years and counting. Players that impact the game that much are few and far between.

Hope this class is a great success. I understand you know much more about the inner workings.
Last edited by SMUstangs22 on Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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