FB & BB Ineptitude-Coincidence?

[Stallion]

ELEVEN Years and counting since the last NCAA Tounament Appearance in Basketball. NINETEEN years and counting since our last Football Bowl Game. Both representing the longest streaks of ineptitude in SMU history. What a coinky-dink! Both coincide with the implementation of an Athletic Model much more restrictive than all natural and traditional rivals-except Rice(which by the way has not gone to a bowl game in 44 years and if memory serves me right hasn't won a conference Basketball championship or gone to the NCAA Basketball Tournament since 1970-a mere 34 years. And all you Geniuses can do is sit around and talk about the 16th head coach in a row that needs to be FIRED so we can get a coach who can really discipline and motivate the boys! Makes me want to PUKE! Open up your little minds and realize this goes much deeper than just whose driving the Bus.

<small>[ 01-21-2004, 08:16 AM: Message edited by: Stallion ]</small>

[HighfalutinHorse]

So......after a 20 plus year athletic legacy of pay-offs, paybacks, bribes, scandals, academic fraud, what have I left out (call that big dude from UNLV)? We where / are suppossed to turn over the "keys to the bus" to who..?? YOU?? Clements? Sherwood? Dave Bliss? Who..?? "Hey Charles Manson, the wife and I want to see a movie, could you watch the kids..." I have often wondered what good winning a slew of football games did for us. A few loudmouthed Texas braggarts got to whoop and holler about how their boys could whip up on those Aggies and Owls and Horny Frogs in the SWC, etc. So..we get the death penalty, try and change our HORRIBLE "management history", and we ALL wonder why we still suck..what do you expect? JUCOville? Come on...Lowered admin...please...we be a small little private, who got their [deleted] slapped, and the bus done left the station 10 - 15 years ago fellas, we are what we are, we are where we are, and a bunch of "upper level" changes, and NEW AD ain't going to change that, it's toooooooooo late, done deal....you want to be like UNLV? I don't...Mizzou? Not me....Texas...cough, cough..how?? Got to go, we got La Tech comin' up.....rah rah, go...

[Hoop Fan]

I do agree that firing the coach has become a copout at SMU. The trend is unmistakable and the blame game is sickening. Even so, very few coaches stay anyplace more than 7 or 8 years. Things get stale and a change is often what is needed to reenergize a program and fan base. Thats where we are now in my view. Dement doesn't have to be cast as the evil empire here. The guy would probably like to see what he could do someplace without all the strings. And maybe, a new coach at SMU could use the negotiation and honeymoon period to extract some changes from the admin (such as renovation of Moody) that Dement hasn't been able to because he didn't have leverage.

[Water Pony]

So, do we nuke adminstration and the athletic department? Not sure what specific steps you think we should take. Where I struggle is with the Hire & Fire Model? Making demands is OK but I'm not sure any move would guarantee success or even ensure a much better outcome.

Our situation includes at the moment our the history with the DP, student apathy, competition for fans in Dallas market, non-BCS status, recruits with lots of options (FB & BB), etc.

To me, the shortest course is for Phil to be successful. New stadium, conference, assistant coaches, etc. are a few key ingredients, so the rest is up to them And changing ADs doesn't get me excited or give us a quick fix. I am open to ideas, but lamenting past decisions seems a waste of time and energy.

[HighfalutinHorse]

What do Ryan Hopkins and Stallion have in common? :hmm:

[Sam I Am]

The flaw in the level playing field arguement is that Dement has brought a few top caliber players to SMU proving that the admissions are not a total barrier to good recruting. Futhermore, the team graduation rate is terrific, demonstrating that you can have true student athletes in big time BB. The coaching in this case has not been up to the same level as the talent. A change is indicated. This like playing duplicate bridge - how many points can you get out of the hand you are dealt compared to other people who play the same cards. Maybe we are now permanently consigned to being only a mid-level conference program. If so, then so be it. I will always miss our salad days of the Walker era and the pony express era.

SMU did unnecessarily limit itself after the DP. We did not have an academic scandal at SMU like occurred in the PAC 10 in the 80's and in some other schools too like Texas Tech BB. Consequenly we did not have to make admissions harder than they had been. What had to do was scruptiously ban anyone who would or could corrupt the athletic programs through illegal payments. Those changes were necessary but none other. And frankly, I think we ought to be able to pay athletes. The NCAA rules on amateurism ought to be junked just like the Olympics had to do. The difference between a pro athlete and a college athlete ought to be about academics not their bank accounts. Sorry about the extended diatribe. The length of my discourse is in proportion to the seriousness of our situation at SMU. :unsure:

[Hoop Fan]

Sam, you make some truly good points.

[Cheesesteak]

Posted by Sam I Am:

"The flaw in the level playing field arguement is that Dement has brought a few top caliber players to SMU proving that the admissions are not a total barrier to good recruting. Futhermore, the team graduation rate is terrific, demonstrating that you can have true student athletes in big time BB."

Good points.

"student-athlete" doesn't have to be synonymous with oxymoron.

[angryfan04]

so stallion, Rice has talent that is worth 40 more points than SMU? Dement's teams are fundamentally flawed on the defensive end. He puts no priority on playing tough defense, when have you heard him talk about playing defense? Sasser could have been one of the best defenders ever; instead he was one of the worst - that part of his game never improved. That is the one glaring flaw that all Mike Dement teams have - the kids don't improve on the defense

[EastStang]

While I am probably the least favorite fan of Dement right now, and I agree our zone defense tends to be a bit soft, we usually do keep our opponants scoring down compared with their averages. Sure, if a team has a hot outside shooter, we get torched. But given our lack of team quickness and size, a zone is probably what we need to play. Do you think a new coach is going to make this team of players play a pressing man to man defense? Perhaps it will be a 2 -1- 2 perhaps or a 1-2-2. But it will be a zone. Our problem is not the defense that is drawn up or the offense that is drawn up, its the intangibles. Players who disappear when they miss a shot or two. Players who don't block out when they move to a wider zone. These are the coaching errors that I see, not the style of defense chosen. OSU was averaging something like 25% from the 3 line going into our game and shot something like 60% against us. A zone was the proper plan, and if you remember, OSU still got a ton of offensive rebounds a big no no in a zone.

[OldPony]

First- We don't play big time basketball so the graduation rate dossn't confirm that you can have student athletes at SMU who do. Maybe- maybe not but your argument is specious.
Second- Sasser could't be bothered to play defense. He couldn't score on D. He couldn't learn in the pro's either.
Third- Dement's trapping zone produces a lot of TO's. It also gives up a lot of open 3's. If we had better athletes running it, we would get more TO and give less open 3's.
Fourth- Dement may have to go. It has nothing to do with anything other than these players have quit on him. A new coach might have better luck or they might all quit on him too. I certainly don't see many with enough pride to play hard when they are getting beaten.
Fifth- If we cling to the idea that we can be competitve without top facilities and fan support, we will only fail. Fan support might come back with a few wins but we have to remember that we never had very good fan support. Even in our hey days we either had to givce away tickets or depend on playing UT, TT Ark, A$M to have large crowds. They for the most part don't play us anymore because we bring nothing to the table for them.
I had hoped that this year the basketball team could get somewhere. For what ever reason, the team quit. New blood might help but likely once a quitter always a quitter.
Dement is not a bad coach. He has proven that other places. We might get lucky and find a better one but it won't cure anything. At best it will give us a short jump start which can't be maintained by recruiting to the same standards as we have over the past 12 years even with some improvement over the past 2.
The question is "Do we want to compete?" We know what it takes.

[angryfan04]

Dement's trapping zone causes a lot of TOs??? What games have you been watching??? Our defense is sorry

[OldPony]

No- Our defense has had a few sorry games when the players quit but we do not play sorry defense. We don't usually give up a lot of points and when the team is hustling we come up with quite a few TO's. We do not have the talent to play defense on the perimeter and inside at the same time. There are a lot of teams who have to make the same choice. See Nebraska for instance. The 3 has also become the great neutralizer. See Richmond beating KU for instnace. We have to make a choice of what to defend. We have chosen to defend the inside. If the other team hits their 3's we lose. If not, we win. All of you who think Mike Dement is the problem are in for a surprise. I agree that he has to go but simply because he has lost this group of quitters. Maybe a new coach can inspire them but I have serious doubts. Once you quit is becomes easier to do the next time. We won't be able to attract a new coach with any more proven skills than Dement. Many of you who have read my posts re Jimmy Tubbs will probably be surprised at this but I think he is the best that we will be able to get. Tubbs will not be successful, however, because he will have to deal with the same problems that Dement has. He will be fresh to the problems so that might help for a very short period of a season or so. I really doubt even that though. If we have so much talent, are all of you ready to fire the next cxoach if he doesn't get SMU to the tourney next year? After all, that will be Dement's best team of talent since he got here and will have the best depth. We also have a top recruit who is lighting up the HS's with his shooting coming in. Should we fire the next coach if he doesn't get us to the NCAA's next year? Recruiting to the CUSA vs the WAC will also be easier so the new coach will have no excuses. Right?