Copeland needs to leave

[Diehard Pony]

I too wish to be part of the Fire Big Jim Copeland Committee. I do not want him selecting a replacement for Mike Dement or anybody else for that matter. I,for one, plan on e-mailing Dr. Turner.

<small>[ 01-22-2004, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: Diehard Pony ]</small>

[abezontar]

DP how well do you know Charlie Waters? Is it at all possible that he someone figured out that you were an SMU fan, and told you what he thought you wanted to hear? It's part of salesmanship, if you can get someone to like you, they are probably going to buy your wares, in this case, the book he was promoting at the event. I'm not trying to disparage you, but unless you are a close friend I would be a little leary of comments like that.

[Diehard Pony]

Originally posted by abezontar:
DP how well do you know Charlie Waters? Is it at all possible that he someone figured out that you were an SMU fan, and told you what he thought you wanted to hear? It's part of salesmanship, if you can get someone to like you, they are probably going to buy your wares, in this case, the book he was promoting at the event. I'm not trying to disparage you, but unless you are a close friend I would be a little leary of comments like that.

The first time I met him was in a business environment about 8 years ago. The second at an SMU football game, and the third at this function. I went to the function because I knew he was going to be there. I sat next to him (and his still hot wife Rosie) at the dinner table (smallesh group of about 30).

<small>[ 01-22-2004, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: Diehard Pony ]</small>

[Stallion]

I seriously doubt that Charlie Waters would be interested in the AD job-for one thing he doesn't have any experience with the day-to-day grunt work involved. After all he just a former NFL player(hmm isn't that on Copeland's resume) BUT as far as the ambassadorship functions of the job there would not be a single better candidate in this City. Don't give me Forrest Gregg, Raymond Berry and a lot of big names in comparison-they were never the fair-haired boys of the Dallas media in the first place nor is Mike Garrett analogous either. Charlie Waters gets more air-time in Dallas WITHOUT A JOB than Phil Bennett gets in Dallas with a job. You can't tell me his profile wouldn't open some corporate and media doors to this program. Charlie Waters could probably raise more outside corporate money for SMU than Copeland has in a year with a one trip around the suite level of Texas Stadium. Copeland (as well as any other likely candidate) could work a lifetime in Dallas and not have 1/5th the contacts Waters has in Dallas.

<small>[ 01-22-2004, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: Stallion ]</small>

[red&blue]

This is funny! I was just waiting to see how long it would take to bring up Charlie Waters!

Come to think of it..... could Charlie have possibly done WORSE that Bennet this year?? I don't think so.

Copeland, either get us a decent bball coach whose kids will listen to him, respect him, play their hearts out for him, and utilize their talents...... or go away. This is way beyond ridiculous now. It doesn't have to be this way and alums need to get good and mad about it.

[Dooby]

Will someone refressh my memory? Did Turner hire Copeland? I seem to recall that Copeland hired shortly before Turner, but that seems odd. Both came here in 1995; I just don't remember who was first.

[Pony4Life]

Originally posted by Stallion:
.... You can't tell me his profile wouldn't open some corporate and media doors to this program. Charlie Waters could probably raise more outside corporate money for SMU than Copeland has in a year with a one trip around the suite level of Texas Stadium. Copeland (as well as any other likely candidate) could work a lifetime in Dallas and not have 1/5th the contacts Waters has in Dallas.

Actually, folks can tell you that -- it's called an opinion, and everyone has one, and nobody's opinion carries more weight than anyone else's. I'm not telling you he would or wouldn't be able to raise funds, because I don't know one way or the other, and neither does anyone else until he gets out and does it. To speculate about this lies somewhere between inane and insane.

<small>[ 01-22-2004, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: Pony4Life ]</small>

[Diehard Pony]

I didn't mean to open the Charlie Waters issue again, but since it is I firmly believe he would have taken the job for a minimal salary...he wanted it that bad, and publically campaigned for it.

Like Stallion, I would still like to have him involved with the program without undermining Coach Bennett, but I don't know how that is possible.

If, and I emphasize IF, we ever have another opening at Head Coach (hopefully because Coach Bennett has done so well that he has moved on to another level), I hope that Charlie becomes the next head coach.

Until and if that day occurs, my support lies entirely with Coach Bennett.

[EastStang]

First an athletic director is not just some gladhander. He or she is an administrator of the functional equivalent of a pretty large and diverse business operation. At Maryland the AD for example is a woman, Debbie Yow. If you want a successful coach to be the AD what about Rhonda Rhompola. There are a number of former Assistant GM's from the NBA, NFL, MLB, who might have these types of qualifications. There are also some former AD's, conference Commissioners, etc. who might be excellent choices. Fact is that Copeland prior to coming to SMU did great work at N.D. and U.Va. He is universally regarded as a great A.D. by those who know that sort of thing. The problems he inherited, and he has slowly worked to change are (1) funding problems, and (2) academic handcuffs. Universities move glacierly. They have to think about things get consensus from every source. There are those in academia at SMU who would love to see us de-emphasize athletics and become like Oberlin and other schools like that. Where they can think great thoughts without having some "dumb" (their words, not mine) athlete taking up space in their classes. Others understand that athletic excellence translates into donor dollars to the University and translates into larger application pools which create stronger students. Those are the battles that are being fought. I think Turner and Copeland are working toward that.

[BUS]

I have to chime in on this....

Look at what HAS happened at SMU while Jim Copeland has been on the job.

Great New Stadium,
Cavan going away and replacing with Bennett. Using that period to get more academic concessions from school. ( More level playing field) No not enough but progress.
I do not dis-like Mr. Dement but it is time to move along. I think Copeland will do that.
We have plans to re-model Moody. Who has the money--- Not me but it will come.
How about C-USA. I like that.

Things need to get better and they have. Do I want more-Faster. Hell Yes.

Fire Mr. Copeland - Hell No

[Stallion]

Interesting-giving credit to an AD for firing a coach he himself hired.

[BUS]

we all make mistakes. the last perfect person was over 2000 years ago.

[Stallion]

yeah I guess your right the guy he picked as the acclaimed Saviour of SMU FB from the evil Mike Cavan made at least 12 of them last year.

[Ikus]

So in your world, it would have been better to stick with Cavan just so Copeland wouldn't have to admit his hire wasn't working out? Brilliant. I applaud Copeland for that. He hired Cavan, and gave him a shot. He also had the backbone to realize when his coach wasn't the right man for the job, and he made the move to correct the decision. Bennett endured a rough season this year -- we all know that. But all indications are that he is managing the program well, stockpiling young athletes who will grow and improve together, while balancing the number of scholarships available in future seasons. As we've all said, Rome wasn't built in a day. What Bennett is doing is laying the foundation for extended future success, not trying to slap together a quick fix with the coaching version of duct tape and band-aids. Copeland realized the past coaching staff wasn't working and had the intelligence and stomach to correct the situation. And, as BUS pointed out, he arranged the funding and construction of the new stadium, the move to a better conference, etc. He, like Bennett, faces a step-by-step process, and it takes time. While we haven't won enough in football or basketball for anyone's taste, he has made the athletic department much better than it was before he got here, and will continue to do so.

[Stallion]

you got your own little double standard working for ya -don't you? For Copeland its a step-by-step process. For Rossley, Shumate, Cavan and now Dement-the coaches who actually had to deal with the mess created by Kenneth Pye- they are considered failures. Perfect example of the scapegoating going on around here.