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Jank should be fired but won't

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Re: Jank should be fired but won't

Postby mustangxc » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:51 am

Even at full strength this was always a rebuilding year so inconsistency was going to be a part of this season regardless of injuries. At full strength we may have still lost the Tulsa game and possibly the Houston game, but that was probably a win. I also think we would have stepped up our game and beaten Cincinnati at home. At full strength we probably win all our remaining games and that resume would be good enough to make the NCAA tournament. An NCAA tournament bid in a rebuilding year is a pretty good season for any program let alone SMU. I have no doubt life will be much easier with a full roster. I have my concerns whether or not we can attract the type of players we did under Larry Brown but I think Jankovich deserves the benefit of the doubt and time to show what he can do without the sanctions and with his own players.
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Re: Jank should be fired but won't

Postby Pony_Law » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:08 pm

USC was a bad match up for us last year in the Tournament. They were a team full of confidence (on a nice run into the tournament and had beaten us before). USC also had the length to bother Semi inside and our guards on the perimeter (which was pretty clearly they type of teams that team had issues with). That said that game came down to a couple of plays that went against us (BM missed free throws, SB turnover standing on the out of bounds line, Jerrey's dunk when he was fouled not dropping, shake missing that floater ect). Disappointing result but crazy stuff happens in the NCAA tournament.

The team this year, at full strength, I think is a pretty high quality team. They have had some inconsistencies, but you would expect that given how young/inexperienced we were coming into the season. Normally you would expect those inconsistencies to diminish through the year but they haven't this year. The million dollar question is have they not gotten rid of those inconsistencies because of coaching or because of the injuries. The injuries are so severe that it makes me lean that way. But it is a question that Jank will have to answer over the next couple of years.
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Re: Jank should be fired but won't

Postby hoopmanx » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:19 pm

Let me be clear. Jank's who we thought he was. This isn't about a few losses, a couple of badly coached games, or a couple of strategies that were great/ Its about the subtle erosion of the Brown culture that IS happening., and I for one, am not sure its for the best. Hiring Brown was always about who was next.

We chose Jank over a list of equally qualified coaches, and I never felt he was the brightest mind or best option. I felt that way based on his results at 2 other head coaching stops, plus feedback from around the MVC about his in game coaching and locker room culture. Jank is loose, a players coach, but often to his detriment. Last year was the exception.He was surrounded by 4 yr Brown kids who were dialed in and thrived under a looser environment. Jank deserves credit there. To be fair, Brown wouldn't have gotten that level of dominance out of that crew.

People can make excuses all day and base them on injuries and sanctions, but few point to the 16 and 17 classes having yielded one true contributor, who would be 4th big as a frosh on a good team. That dry spell of legitass high school talent is on Jank. His insistence on recruiting DFW, after Brown effectively said eff this place, was dumb and really hurt '19, so far. Hiring a DFW 'sniper' in Forrest was dumb. Hiring Maxey's Dad was brilliance if it works. If not, national laughingstock.

Shooting more 3s than 2s, no matter the personnel is anti-Brown. Why play slow if you're just gonna chuck ill-advised junk? Speed it up. Why play zone when the best mid range shooting big in the league gets open touches, every single possession at like 12 feet. That's just grievances from yesterday. Everything else is his history vs what we're seeing in Crum and on the court.

He shouldnt be fired or anything, but he needs to be made accountable moving forward. No more blaming injuries b/c HIS next man up isn't close to good enough. Get better back-ups. No more sanction cry-babying, cause teams play 7 or 8 and only go 10 deep on rare occasion. If 6-10 didnt stink right now, not having 13 wouldn't be the issue he wants to make it out to be.

As the great Gary Williams used to say, its not about who you miss on the trail, its who you get who can't play.
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Re: Jank should be fired but won't

Postby SMU_Alum11 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:32 pm

PlanoStang wrote:Head coach Tim Jankovich is 54 - 14 at SMU, and now 38 - 2 at Moody.

Spoiled BRAT millenials including the mediocre SMU Alumni 11 guy should be forced to pass a
test on SMU athletic history before being allowed to post on here :!:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


You need to get an average IQ test score before you are allowed to post on any platform. :lol:
#MoodySadness #SaveMoody #FireJank
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Re: Jank should be fired but won't

Postby ponyboy » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:00 pm

This whole topic is beyond stupid, but whatever.
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Re: Jank should be fired but won't

Postby skyscraper » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:03 pm

It's intentionally over the top.
Hoop nails it. What made SMU SMU the past few years is disappearing, but people are missing that because of all the injuries. There are warning signs the foundation is cracking, but people either don't see it or don't want to.
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Re: Jank should be fired but won't

Postby PonyTime » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:16 pm

If LB were the HC on Sunday night we would have lost by same margin.

It's not like Larry's teams were so deep (before sanctions) that we would have put our second stringers on the court and beaten the #6 team in the country.

It's not like LB could have rolled Jean-Michel Mudiay out there to beat Cincy. That is what is being asked of Jank.

And I don't think that we beat Wichita State on road if LB had coached that game. He would have pulled any shooter who dared to take consecutive 3 pointers.
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Re: Jank should be fired but won't

Postby GoMustAAngs2007 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:20 pm

hoopmanx wrote:People can make excuses all day and base them on injuries and sanctions, but few point to the 16 and 17 classes having yielded one true contributor, who would be 4th big as a frosh on a good team. That dry spell of legitass high school talent is on Jank. His insistence on recruiting DFW, after Brown effectively said eff this place, was dumb and really hurt '19, so far. Hiring a DFW 'sniper' in Forrest was dumb. Hiring Maxey's Dad was brilliance if it works. If not, national laughingstock.


Hoop, great stuff as always. You are absolutely right regarding the past few recruiting classes and transfers.

2015 - Shake and Jarrey (hit), Barefield (miss)
2016 - Froling, Wilson, McDowell (all misses and cost us badly last year. Imagine if just one of those three had been a meaningful contributor on last year's team???)
2017 - Chargois (looks promising), Douglas (high ceiling if he develops), Landrum (TBD), Ray (TBD)
2018 and 2019...

The big question, which may be the less "extreme" reaction to the original post, is how long to we give Jank to right the ship? IMO he has to get this team back to the tournament in 2019 or 2020 and WIN A GAME. Just one. This fan base isn't delusional, we don't have Final Four/National Championship level expectations - I just want a program that competes for a conference championship every year and makes the tourney more often than not.

Given the investment in the program and the fact that we now have fan support - sustainable if a bit fragile right now - this team has to come back with a vengeance next year. Another middle of the pack conference finish and underwhelming recruiting will make the seat warm.

All in all, I'm just happy we have this critical mass of people who care. This program has smashed every stereotype of SMU athletics i.e. fans don't care, support isn't there to win, etc. LB, for all his flaws, made it happen and I am forever grateful for that.
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Re: Jank should be fired but won't

Postby hoopmanx » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:26 pm

PonyTime wrote:If LB were the HC on Sunday night we would have lost by same margin.

It's not like Larry's teams were so deep (before sanctions) that we would have put our second stringers on the court and beaten the #6 team in the country.

It's not like LB could have rolled Jean-Michel Mudiay out there to beat Cincy. That is what is being asked of Jank.

And I don't think that we beat Wichita State on road if LB had coached that game. He would have pulled any shooter who dared to take consecutive 3 pointers.


Larry also never would have lost to a crappy NIU team and Western Kentucky in Atlantis or Tulane/Temple this year.
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Re: Jank should be fired but won't

Postby skyscraper » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:28 pm

People thinking this topic is about yesterday's game are missing the point.
There have been issues making themselves apparent for more than a month now.
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Re: Jank should be fired but won't

Postby gostangs » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:37 pm

First of all it is a great thing our fan base has high expectations. Hopefully the GM (Miller) does as well.

And this is more than the last month - this goes back to last year. We had 4, if not five NBA level players most of last year and didn't do squat that anyone will remember with them. That is an issue.
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Re: Jank should be fired but won't

Postby mustangxc » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:26 pm

I agree that getting bounced in the first round of the NCAA tournament was very disappointing. We should have been in the Final Four instead of South Carolina, we had the talent to get there. However, everything else Jankovich has done on the court has been at or above expectations. Jankovich led us to that 9-0 start (wins over Stanford, TCU, Michigan) in 2015-16 and Larry ended up going 16-5, granted the 5 losses were in conference play. Jankovich also led us last season to a conference championship and conference tournament championship and exceeded the Larry Brown's best season at SMU. The sanctions are 100% on Larry Brown and have limited our ability to recruit even more transfers, which has been our primary method for acquiring top talent including Nic Moore, Markus Kennedy, Semi Ojeleye, Jimmy Whitt, Jahmal McMurray, etc. I don't include graduate transfers like Jordan Tolbert because they are immediately eligible and we should grab those now. The Froling, Wilson, McDowell class was under Larry too. This year's freshmen and the 2018 class are the first groups we can begin to look at. I think Chargois and Douglas will be excellent players and Landrum will be a solid role player. I think we probably missed with Ray. I am excited about Hunt, but would like to see us add another top player. I really see our current team's situation as a result of the precarious situation Larry left us with. If Larry hadn't landed us with sanctions we would have more scholarships to give and increase the odds of hitting on another player vs the misses we have had. I also see that Larry missed on the 17 class and that left us with an inexperienced team this season. If Larry hada managed to leave us with a solid class the freshmen would hardly play and no one would be talking about their meager output. Seeing the way our team played in Houston I am optimistic that we have a very talented roster that simply needs to grow up, gain confidence and learn how to win. I hope we land another impact player in the 18 class and get an early commitment from Maxey for the 19 class so he can attract other talented players with him.
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Re: Jank should be fired but won't

Postby Terry Webster » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:34 pm

This thread reminds me of the 'fire Cronin' hysteria that comes out of Cincinnati just about every year.
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Re: Jank should be fired but won't

Postby PonyLawExpress » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:40 pm

I don't think Jank deserves a pass at all on the recruiting front. Him and Brown are both at fault for the trash 2016 class. The 2017 class to me looks like a 2 out of 4 (but this season only 1 out of 4). Transfer wise Whitt was a good grab. McMurray questionable at this point, but productive. And I.Mike should be a real good grab.

There are concerns I have and Hoop's concerns aren't completely unfounded or wrong, but its way too early to know if any of it is viable or just product of poor circumstances this season. This team at full strength was a likely tourney team (even with all issues, early season questionable losses, and being in a rebuild year with a brand new team).

I do think the next 13 months will be a telling time for Jank and afterwards will be the proper time to judge. Mainly focusing on: 1) How he addresses/adds to the roster in the offseason; 2) the 2019 class (Can he get Maxey and/or a legit top 25-30 haul); 3) how next season goes.

Anyone deserves somewhat of a pass for the injures this season, aside from mentioning the sanctions. Should we have a better 6-10, yes. Our 8-10 is particularly weak. But pick a team as deep and good as Cincy and tell me they would be rolling along in first place if they lost Jacob Evans for the season, Gary Clark for 4-6 games, Kyle Washington for 3-4 games along with having one of their backup bigs recovering from an injury and Cane Broome only playing half the season. Would they do better than us? Yes. They have a deep team and a good 6-10. Would they lose on the road to UH, WSU, and probably 2-4 others in the the conference... probably. And that taking the best/deepest and very experienced team in our conference. Our injures have been too much to take much stock of what has happenend post-Shake and blaming a coach for it.

Lets postpone our leaky foundation comments one year and just keep an eye on it until we have more to base it on.
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Re: Jank should be fired but won't

Postby PonyTime » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:04 pm

hoopmanx wrote:
PonyTime wrote:If LB were the HC on Sunday night we would have lost by same margin.

It's not like Larry's teams were so deep (before sanctions) that we would have put our second stringers on the court and beaten the #6 team in the country.

It's not like LB could have rolled Jean-Michel Mudiay out there to beat Cincy. That is what is being asked of Jank.

And I don't think that we beat Wichita State on road if LB had coached that game. He would have pulled any shooter who dared to take consecutive 3 pointers.


Larry also never would have lost to a crappy NIU team and Western Kentucky in Atlantis or Tulane/Temple this year.


No - Larry chose to lose to a crappy USF team (12-20 record), the worst Temple team (9-22 final record) in decades, along with laying an egg against an average (17-16) Houston team in the first round of the conference tournament.

That cost two future NBA players and Nic Moore the chance at the NCAA tournament.

WKU, Tulane and Temple are legit post season possibilities in NIT at least - if not NCAA bubble teams. All three of those teams have a better shot than us at this point.
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