How fast to burn it down?

[skyscraper]

There are two separate but equally frustrating issues.
1. Re-seat: Jank had nothing to do with it, but it murdered the atmosphere like we thought it would. Blame on the AD
2. Recruting/playing: Jank has everything to do with this and it's murdering any chance at success the team has. No blame on the AD, yet. But will be up to him in March to make changes.

[MV pony]

I thought the match was struck the minute LB left the building. In light of Nic, however, I hoped Jank could recognize and pull in talent and he would carry on LB's philosophy. Nope on both. I agree we should bring back LB in some capacity and his name is the only name that belongs on the court!

[MV pony]

I voted no because I don't think Jank burned anything down (and it is too early to tell - the end of the season will tell the tale). The administration is the culprit in any case. From failure to manage the LB tenure to utter disregard for the supporters the situation in which we find ourselves is entirely down to administrative shortcomings. This program was NEVER going to sustain the heights that LB obtained. He alone brought national prominence to our program. And that's ok. It was fun. But real leadership would have set us up for the long haul. In this they have failed miserably. They have alienated many of their most loyal supporters and ensured that the program will be in a worse position when it finally settles at its appropriate level (periodic if infrequent NCAA tourneys and occasional conference success). I am not sure that this season won't be successful by the end of it, but if it isn't it is going to be fascinating when they go to renew STHs for next year.

Look at Jank's Illinois State record in the MVC, assume he learned at least something from Larry and I think you probably have a pretty good fit for SMU. We play in a much tougher conference and there will be up years and down years. Frustration is all premised on where we were for a few years there with LB and immediately after. That's not where SMU is going to end up. Expectations need to be adjusted.




2007–08 Illinois State 25–10 13–5 2nd NIT Second Round
2008–09 Illinois State 24–10 11–7 3rd NIT First Round
2009–10 Illinois State 22–11 11–7 3rd NIT First Round
2010–11 Illinois State 12–19 4–14 T–9th
2011–12 Illinois State 21–14 9–9 T–3rd NIT Second Round
Illinois State: 104–64 (.619) 48–42 (.533)

NIT? BFD. Blue blood b-ball schools don't adjust their expectations and I hope SMU wants to become a blue blood program.

[Mustangsabu]

I voted no because I don't think Jank burned anything down (and it is too early to tell - the end of the season will tell the tale). The administration is the culprit in any case. From failure to manage the LB tenure to utter disregard for the supporters the situation in which we find ourselves is entirely down to administrative shortcomings. This program was NEVER going to sustain the heights that LB obtained. He alone brought national prominence to our program. And that's ok. It was fun. But real leadership would have set us up for the long haul. In this they have failed miserably. They have alienated many of their most loyal supporters and ensured that the program will be in a worse position when it finally settles at its appropriate level (periodic if infrequent NCAA tourneys and occasional conference success). I am not sure that this season won't be successful by the end of it, but if it isn't it is going to be fascinating when they go to renew STHs for next year.

Look at Jank's Illinois State record in the MVC, assume he learned at least something from Larry and I think you probably have a pretty good fit for SMU. We play in a much tougher conference and there will be up years and down years. Frustration is all premised on where we were for a few years there with LB and immediately after. That's not where SMU is going to end up. Expectations need to be adjusted.




2007–08 Illinois State 25–10 13–5 2nd NIT Second Round
2008–09 Illinois State 24–10 11–7 3rd NIT First Round
2009–10 Illinois State 22–11 11–7 3rd NIT First Round
2010–11 Illinois State 12–19 4–14 T–9th
2011–12 Illinois State 21–14 9–9 T–3rd NIT Second Round
Illinois State: 104–64 (.619) 48–42 (.533)

NIT? BFD. Blue blood b-ball schools don't adjust their expectations and I hope SMU wants to become a blue blood program.

If you are a blue blood bball school you don't need to adjust your expectations, I would agree with that. We aren't such a school. This administration has no earthly clue how you build a blue blood program and I don't think they are trying to. People need to accept we are SMU.

[blackoutpony]

I voted no because I don't think Jank burned anything down (and it is too early to tell - the end of the season will tell the tale). The administration is the culprit in any case. From failure to manage the LB tenure to utter disregard for the supporters the situation in which we find ourselves is entirely down to administrative shortcomings. This program was NEVER going to sustain the heights that LB obtained. He alone brought national prominence to our program. And that's ok. It was fun. But real leadership would have set us up for the long haul. In this they have failed miserably. They have alienated many of their most loyal supporters and ensured that the program will be in a worse position when it finally settles at its appropriate level (periodic if infrequent NCAA tourneys and occasional conference success). I am not sure that this season won't be successful by the end of it, but if it isn't it is going to be fascinating when they go to renew STHs for next year.

Look at Jank's Illinois State record in the MVC, assume he learned at least something from Larry and I think you probably have a pretty good fit for SMU. We play in a much tougher conference and there will be up years and down years. Frustration is all premised on where we were for a few years there with LB and immediately after. That's not where SMU is going to end up. Expectations need to be adjusted.




2007–08 Illinois State 25–10 13–5 2nd NIT Second Round
2008–09 Illinois State 24–10 11–7 3rd NIT First Round
2009–10 Illinois State 22–11 11–7 3rd NIT First Round
2010–11 Illinois State 12–19 4–14 T–9th
2011–12 Illinois State 21–14 9–9 T–3rd NIT Second Round
Illinois State: 104–64 (.619) 48–42 (.533)

NIT? BFD. Blue blood b-ball schools don't adjust their expectations and I hope SMU wants to become a blue blood program.

Abu, it's completely and pathetically laughable that you're sighting getting to the 2nd round of the NIT as something good and that Jank might be able to coach. He's literally accomplished absolutely nothing as a coach with his own players. He won the AAC with a roster with 5 NBA players curated by a Hall of Fame coach. They could've put me on the bench and just let me yell loudly and drink beers the whole game and that team would've won 25 games.

I voted yes, because I actually looked at his track record at Illinois State when he was hired, and hoped he would move on before he actually got to be our HC. He was never the right hire from the start and anyone with a brain could see that from a mile away. Yes, I too hoped he would've learned something from Larry, but he clearly didn't and has destroyed all the momentum we built under LB.

[mrydel]

Does BB allow “consultants” like FB does? We could bring Brown back ( I bet he would come) as a consultant and let Jank know that Brown would be in charge of practice and that he (Jank) had one more chance to learn how it is done. No game coaching or recruiting for Brown to keep us safe, but recruits would still know he was there and maybe something could be salvaged. I truly miss seeing the way the Brown coached teams played.

You and I have a much different approach on how to deal with employees.

He was given a once-in-a-lifetime 3 year apprentice. He failed.

It’s like Sal, asking for a 2nd chance.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RIJIXMX2zw8

If you are comparing Sal to Jank, we somewhat agree. It is just that we could not bring LB back as head coach with his baggage. When LB was here before, Jank followed instructions. If you are comparing Sal to LB, I would disagree. My current employer courted me for several years and I said no. When I wanted a change I went to them and they said no. Then a time came where we both said yes. Just because LB did not want what we offered does not mean we do not even want him in our presence.

[Mustangsabu]

I voted no because I don't think Jank burned anything down (and it is too early to tell - the end of the season will tell the tale). The administration is the culprit in any case. From failure to manage the LB tenure to utter disregard for the supporters the situation in which we find ourselves is entirely down to administrative shortcomings. This program was NEVER going to sustain the heights that LB obtained. He alone brought national prominence to our program. And that's ok. It was fun. But real leadership would have set us up for the long haul. In this they have failed miserably. They have alienated many of their most loyal supporters and ensured that the program will be in a worse position when it finally settles at its appropriate level (periodic if infrequent NCAA tourneys and occasional conference success). I am not sure that this season won't be successful by the end of it, but if it isn't it is going to be fascinating when they go to renew STHs for next year.

Look at Jank's Illinois State record in the MVC, assume he learned at least something from Larry and I think you probably have a pretty good fit for SMU. We play in a much tougher conference and there will be up years and down years. Frustration is all premised on where we were for a few years there with LB and immediately after. That's not where SMU is going to end up. Expectations need to be adjusted.

We would have loved to make the second round of the NIT under Doh. No one would have found that laughable or pathetic. I think there is a good chance that's the kind of level SMU should be at. Occasional trips to the big dance and generally solid seasons. Is Jank the man, I don't know, I'm not arguing that, I'm saying that if he can get us to the mid-rounds of the NIT with regularity and occasionally get us further, I don't think that is bad for SMU. Of course it probably doesn't justify what we are paying him, or what we are paying to attend, but before LB SMU fans would have been happy with that.




2007–08 Illinois State 25–10 13–5 2nd NIT Second Round
2008–09 Illinois State 24–10 11–7 3rd NIT First Round
2009–10 Illinois State 22–11 11–7 3rd NIT First Round
2010–11 Illinois State 12–19 4–14 T–9th
2011–12 Illinois State 21–14 9–9 T–3rd NIT Second Round
Illinois State: 104–64 (.619) 48–42 (.533)

NIT? BFD. Blue blood b-ball schools don't adjust their expectations and I hope SMU wants to become a blue blood program.

Abu, it's completely and pathetically laughable that you're sighting getting to the 2nd round of the NIT as something good and that Jank might be able to coach. He's literally accomplished absolutely nothing as a coach with his own players. He won the AAC with a roster with 5 NBA players curated by a Hall of Fame coach. They could've put me on the bench and just let me yell loudly and drink beers the whole game and that team would've won 25 games.

I voted yes, because I actually looked at his track record at Illinois State when he was hired, and hoped he would move on before he actually got to be our HC. He was never the right hire from the start and anyone with a brain could see that from a mile away. Yes, I too hoped he would've learned something from Larry, but he clearly didn't and has destroyed all the momentum we built under LB.

[SoCal_Pony]

Does BB allow “consultants” like FB does? We could bring Brown back ( I bet he would come) as a consultant and let Jank know that Brown would be in charge of practice and that he (Jank) had one more chance to learn how it is done. No game coaching or recruiting for Brown to keep us safe, but recruits would still know he was there and maybe something could be salvaged. I truly miss seeing the way the Brown coached teams played.

You and I have a much different approach on how to deal with employees.

He was given a once-in-a-lifetime 3 year apprentice. He failed.

It’s like Sal, asking for a 2nd chance.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RIJIXMX2zw8

If you are comparing Sal to Jank, we somewhat agree. It is just that we could not bring LB back as head coach with his baggage. When LB was here before, Jank followed instructions. If you are comparing Sal to LB, I would disagree. My current employer courted me for several years and I said no. When I wanted a change I went to them and they said no. Then a time came where we both said yes. Just because LB did not want what we offered does not mean we do not even want him in our presence.

Mrydel, I am comparing Sal to Jank. I personally don't think he deserves a second chance.

As for your own personal story, it is understandable but I believe misses the 'mark' in this particular example.

Better analogy would be for you to be working directly under one of the best bankers in the history of Arkansas, banker Brown, being groomed as his successor. After working directly under Brown for 3 years, you are handed the keys to the bank and immediately run it into the ground. During a board meeting, a Director proposes they bring back Brown to help you.

I would emphatically vote NO.

IMO, you had your chance. You blew it so spectacularly that is time to move on.

[friarwolf]

Does BB allow “consultants” like FB does? We could bring Brown back ( I bet he would come) as a consultant and let Jank know that Brown would be in charge of practice and that he (Jank) had one more chance to learn how it is done. No game coaching or recruiting for Brown to keep us safe, but recruits would still know he was there and maybe something could be salvaged. I truly miss seeing the way the Brown coached teams played.

Tigers can't change their stripes so this would be a useless exercise. Jank got 4 years of training by LB and torched it with one comment when he got the job (We're gonna shoot a lot more 3's). The only player left is Jarrey and he's hurt. The other players would look at LB and roll their eyes.......

[mrydel]

[quote="mrydel"]Does BB allow “consultants” like FB does? We could bring Brown back ( I bet he would come) as a consultant and let Jank know that Brown would be in charge of practice and that he (Jank) had one more chance to learn how it is done. No game coaching or recruiting for Brown to keep us safe, but recruits would still know he was there and maybe something could be salvaged. I truly miss seeing the way the Brown coached teams played.

You and I have a much different approach on how to deal with employees.

He was given a once-in-a-lifetime 3 year apprentice. He failed.

It’s like Sal, asking for a 2nd chance.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RIJIXMX2zw8

If you are comparing Sal to Jank, we somewhat agree. It is just that we could not bring LB back as head coach with his baggage. When LB was here before, Jank followed instructions. If you are comparing Sal to LB, I would disagree. My current employer courted me for several years and I said no. When I wanted a change I went to them and they said no. Then a time came where we both said yes. Just because LB did not want what we offered does not mean we do not even want him in our presence.

Mrydel, I am comparing Sal to Jank. I personally don't think he deserves a second chance.

As for your own personal story, it is understandable but I believe misses the 'mark' in this particular example.

Better analogy would be for you to be working directly under one of the best bankers in the history of Arkansas, banker Brown, being groomed as his successor. After working directly under Brown for 3 years, you are handed the keys to the bank and immediately run it into the ground. During a board meeting, a Director proposes they bring back Brown to help you.

I would emphatically vote NO.

IMO, you had your chance. You blew it so spectacularly that is time to move on.[/quote]
That’s fine. I cannot disagree at all. I am just trying to get LB back and do not see that happening in conjunction with a new coach hire. If we can find the right replacement I am good, but just really miss LB.

[PonyPlayer4]

There are two separate but equally frustrating issues.
1. Re-seat: Jank had nothing to do with it, but it murdered the atmosphere like we thought it would. Blame on the AD
2. Recruting/playing: Jank has everything to do with this and it's murdering any chance at success the team has. No blame on the AD, yet. But will be up to him in March to make changes.

I do not think the re-seat murdered the atmosphere. Having a poor product on the court (Jank), horrible schedule (Jank), zero program momentum (Jank), and a coach that doesn't recruit (Jank) killed the atmosphere.

[ponydawg]

There are two separate but equally frustrating issues.
1. Re-seat: Jank had nothing to do with it, but it murdered the atmosphere like we thought it would. Blame on the AD
2. Recruting/playing: Jank has everything to do with this and it's murdering any chance at success the team has. No blame on the AD, yet. But will be up to him in March to make changes.

I do not think the re-seat murdered the atmosphere. Having a poor product on the court (Jank), horrible schedule (Jank), zero program momentum (Jank), and a coach that doesn't recruit (Jank) killed the atmosphere.

None of it helps the atmosphere, but the re-seat for sure plays a part.
- We sold less season tickets
- You bond with people around you each game. You cheer with them, high five, and second guess coaching with them. No-one in my "new" section interacts at all. I agree there has not been much to cheer about, but I know for a fact my old section would have been more lively.

[ponyboy]

The reseat was a mistake. Jank has had a very short bench. Jank hasn’t been able to close on some high profile recruits.

Only the latter is even partially his fault.

I still say let the season play out and have a strong plan if Jank doesn’t exceed expectations.

[max the wonder dog]

To add a little fuel to the fire, I just looked at the SMU recruiting prospects as identified 0n 247, Rivals, and Verbal Commits. I know it's only a partial picture of what's happening, but based on what I saw, the rest of the class will look like our two current verbal commits. Sad.

[originaloverthehilltop1]

has everyone forgotten that it was lb who got us the hammer for fast and furious recruiting practices, then lied under questioning, reversing the lie within 24hrs in front of the ncaa, thus guaranteeing nuclear enforcement? yeah we had a couple years of fun followed by atomic destruction and the current state is not janks fault. if he doesn't get it turned around soon, fine, fire him. but bringing back the force of nature idiot as a "consultant" would be stupid. too much baggage.