RICK HART: Where in the HELL are our FANS --- STUDENTS????

[RGV Pony]

Thumbnail sketch:

*Larry rocks, obviously ran a loose ship.

*We get in trouble.

*Discussing new deal, SMU wants protection, Larry balks, leaves like he has for every. single. job. he. has. ever. had. and. where. we. all. knew. he. would. leave. from. here.

*Jank takes over. People expect him to do certain things well, screw up other things.

*To everyone's surprise, Jank screws up things we thought he'd do well.

*SMU adjusts pricing for revenue sport for the first time in 30 years. What it does is reasonable. What it does is in line with other schools. What it does is not objectionable.

*SMU screws up communications re. aforementioned price adjustment. Rick not good at interpersonal skills. SMU fans upset.

*Jank, realizing he can't recruit, and that he hasn't learned enough about coaching from LB, schedules an OOC so insanely, outrageously bad in an effort to pad his win total and get an extension.

*Team sucks against ridiculously bad competition. Bad D, no real offense, loses 3 inexcusable games.

*Hideously, laughably bad home schedule + bad play on the court + anger stemming from price adjustment (followed by gaarbage schedule) + talent filtering out of program + the fact that Jank induces excitement like a soggy piece of wonderbread with a Just For Men endorsement deal = fans not showing up.

I wonder under different circumstances if an AD would have protected LB more and ‘just let him coach’. My gut tells me yes. Mex says we self-reported and did our own forensic investigation of the school's servers to discover the source of the high school work. I wonder how many other schools would be so forthright. UNC, apparently not.

LB does always leave, but this situation was a little different. He had kids here and he’s getting up in years.

That of course is now water under the bridge. My concern is going forward.

Pony Kai, what do you think it will take to get Jank fired?

I'm reasonably sure we self-reported so as to stay one step ahead of the posse. Self-report and take what's coming as a result of the class he didnt need & staffer's help as pointed out by us, or not self report and take what wouldve come beyond the tip of that iceberg.

[Rebel10]

The lottery type re seat was more than a price adjustment because moved people from their old seats to worse seats. And they had gone up on the prices the previous year so it was not the first time in 30 years they had gone up in seat prices.

And it left a bad taste in loyal seat holders mouths.

[PonyKai]

Thumbnail sketch:

*Larry rocks, obviously ran a loose ship.

*We get in trouble.

*Discussing new deal, SMU wants protection, Larry balks, leaves like he has for every. single. job. he. has. ever. had. and. where. we. all. knew. he. would. leave. from. here.

*Jank takes over. People expect him to do certain things well, screw up other things.

*To everyone's surprise, Jank screws up things we thought he'd do well.

*SMU adjusts pricing for revenue sport for the first time in 30 years. What it does is reasonable. What it does is in line with other schools. What it does is not objectionable.

*SMU screws up communications re. aforementioned price adjustment. Rick not good at interpersonal skills. SMU fans upset.

*Jank, realizing he can't recruit, and that he hasn't learned enough about coaching from LB, schedules an OOC so insanely, outrageously bad in an effort to pad his win total and get an extension.

*Team sucks against ridiculously bad competition. Bad D, no real offense, loses 3 inexcusable games.

*Hideously, laughably bad home schedule + bad play on the court + anger stemming from price adjustment (followed by gaarbage schedule) + talent filtering out of program + the fact that Jank induces excitement like a soggy piece of wonderbread with a Just For Men endorsement deal = fans not showing up.

I wonder under different circumstances if an AD would have protected LB more and ‘just let him coach’. My gut tells me yes. Mex says we self-reported and did our own forensic investigation of the school's servers to discover the source of the high school work. I wonder how many other schools would be so forthright. UNC, apparently not.

LB does always leave, but this situation was a little different. He had kids here and he’s getting up in years.

That of course is now water under the bridge. My concern is going forward.

Pony Kai, what do you think it will take to get Jank fired?

I'm reasonably sure we self-reported so as to stay one step ahead of the posse. Self-report and take what's coming as a result of the class he didnt need & staffer's help as pointed out by us, or not self report and take what wouldve come beyond the tip of that iceberg.

To piggy-back off this and respond to a couple of So Cal's points:

1.) Nothing I say should be taken as gospel. I'm nothing more than a raving lunatic among the crowd, more often than not to be dismissed as simply blowing off steam. I have no insider information or special insight into Jank's status here. I do know that, as with any change in revenue leadership, a number of factors would be considered nothing would ever happen until people who fund these things are tired enough to spend their own money. Turner, Hart, and Deputy ADs could be finished with Jank by Thursday morning (probably unlikely), but unless someone's there to say "here's the buyout, and here's a sack full of money for the next guy," we're resigned to hoping the school signs an endorsement deal with Just For Men. Pretty sure you know all this, so I don't want to come off as if I'm speaking down to you.

Having said that, I am not of the belief that you judge a coach based on his ability/inability to win certain games. See it a lot in CFB. "If Coach X wins his next two games, he'll likely stay. If not, he's gone." He's either your guy, or he's not. Jank's not the guy. Doesn't matter if he beats TCU. Doesn't matter if he beats Georgetown. Because of this, I want him gone by this evening. More realistically, I want him gone after this season. Because any more time, Moody's going to get emptier, talent will continue to filter out of the program, and fan interest will get further depressed.

2.) Speaking off of RGV's points--I think that needs to be viewed in hindsight. Knowing what we knew then, self-reporting was a defensible strategic position to take. No one, even the most cynical outsiders, could have foreseen that the NCAA would napalm a program over a single event where the school was self-reporting. What we should learn from that is from now, until the end of time, lawyer up, tell the NCAA to eat sh*t, and never, ever give an inch on anything. Anything other than that behavior, and I'll join the mob with a pitchfork and torch.

3.) As to Larry leaving, sure, you can make arguments this time was different (and perhaps it was), but I'm not really persuaded by that simply because Larry just aint a normal guy and never has been. And when he chose to leave kind of drops the curtain on whether he viewed this as "different." He walked, suddenly, right before the most important eval period of the year, and did it 12 hours after the horrific police shootings in Dallas. To say he treated this situation different from, say, quitting Davidson because he didn't like the carpet seems less persuasive considering those things.

4.) Speaking back to the idea (not yours) that this is some sort of bizarre conspiracy, or that Turner has some secret plot to destroy athletics, or Rick is incapable of firing a coach or hiring one, is simply laughable. Everyone put away your tin foil hats. SMU--like a huge number of schools (and other entities)--is simply more reactionary, less creative, less aggressive, and doesn't have any trail-blazing superstars ready to roll the dice on everything. It's probably populated by a bunch of reasonably smart, reactionary, risk-minimizing guys and gals that have to answer to a lot of money and a number of powerful people. They probably either lack vision or, more likely, don't have the capacity to connect all the dots from here, to the end goal, of putting SMU in the SEC--which is hard. That's why for every Del Conte there's a hundred athletic administrators no one has ever heard of. We make some good decisions (Morris, Dykes, Brown, selling booze in Moody), we make some bad decisions (baby race at half time, letting June dictate IPF location, not firing June after ASU, etc).

[SoCal_Pony]

I'm reasonably sure we self-reported so as to stay one step ahead of the posse. Self-report and take what's coming as a result of the class he didnt need & staffer's help as pointed out by us, or not self report and take what wouldve come beyond the tip of that iceberg.

RGV, I’ve heard that argument before.

It implies that what we were doing was so egregious compared to other top programs that we were wise to self-report.

Maybe that was indeed the case, but I am highly skeptical. HIGHLY skeptical.

[ObeyMyDog]

I wonder under different circumstances if an AD would have protected LB more and ‘just let him coach’. My gut tells me yes. Mex says we self-reported and did our own forensic investigation of the school's servers to discover the source of the high school work. I wonder how many other schools would be so forthright. UNC, apparently not.

LB does always leave, but this situation was a little different. He had kids here and he’s getting up in years.

That of course is now water under the bridge. My concern is going forward.

Pony Kai, what do you think it will take to get Jank fired?

Oh yeah, the one thing Mex did say that is close to accurate I guess is Rick Hart is a moron who let Keith go in to a simple NCAA interview without a lawyer or any prep - and that interview led to the first NCAA problems which ultimately led to the sanctions etc... If Rick isn't a total moron, he sends Keith in to that room with a serious attorney (like any other school that plays for keeps would) and the NCAA never gets anywhere. And, yeah - we then proceeded to narc on our self because we are Turner/Hart led SMU.

[RGV Pony]

I'm reasonably sure we self-reported so as to stay one step ahead of the posse. Self-report and take what's coming as a result of the class he didnt need & staffer's help as pointed out by us, or not self report and take what wouldve come beyond the tip of that iceberg.

RGV, I’ve heard that argument before.

It implies that what we were doing was so egregious compared to other top programs that we were wise to self-report.

Maybe that was indeed the case, but I am highly skeptical. HIGHLY skeptical.

I think the error there is thinking SMU operates in a vacuum and that the NCAA would say well to be fair, UNC did much much worse over a longer period of time and so did Syracuse.

Plus we aren't weren't a top program. On our way, but not there. We were and are what we are, and had LB at the forefront.

[ObeyMyDog]

I'm reasonably sure we self-reported so as to stay one step ahead of the posse. Self-report and take what's coming as a result of the class he didnt need & staffer's help as pointed out by us, or not self report and take what wouldve come beyond the tip of that iceberg.

Should have included this as well to the above - this is correct if you look at it from the fact we only had to do this because Hart sends Keith in to his NCAA interview without an attorney and completely unprepared for what to say. From what I remember hearing from people who had knowledge of how it went down, Keith did not have to lie at that point because the NCAA never asked the proper questions/Keith didn't fully understand how his class thing was set up.

[SoCal_Pony]

Having said that, I am not of the belief that you judge a coach based on his ability/inability to win certain games. See it a lot in CFB. "If Coach X wins his next two games, he'll likely stay. If not, he's gone." He's either your guy, or he's not. Jank's not the guy. Doesn't matter if he beats TCU. Doesn't matter if he beats Georgetown. Because of this, I want him gone by this evening. More realistically, I want him gone after this season. Because any more time, Moody's going to get emptier, talent will continue to filter out of the program, and fan interest will get further depressed.

2.) Speaking off of RGV's points--I think that needs to be viewed in hindsight. Knowing what we knew then, self-reporting was a defensible strategic position to take. No one, even the most cynical outsiders, could have foreseen that the NCAA would napalm a program over a single event where the school was self-reporting. What we should learn from that is from now, until the end of time, lawyer up, tell the NCAA to eat sh*t, and never, ever give an inch on anything. Anything other than that behavior, and I'll join the mob with a pitchfork and torch.

Solid Post, thanks for responding.

1) completely agree with you on this point. Don’t know if RGT or Hart do, ergo my comments on such. I just want Jank gone and I simply don’t want any doubt as to why.

2) we must have had different life experiences. I would have strongly advised SMU to lawyer up. ‘94 even implied they hired the wrong firm to represent them. Go figure.

[SoCal_Pony]

I'm reasonably sure we self-reported so as to stay one step ahead of the posse. Self-report and take what's coming as a result of the class he didnt need & staffer's help as pointed out by us, or not self report and take what wouldve come beyond the tip of that iceberg.

Should have included this as well to the above - this is correct if you look at it from the fact we only had to do this because Hart sends Keith in to his NCAA interview without an attorney and completely unprepared for what to say. From what I remember hearing from people who had knowledge of how it went down, Keith did not have to lie at that point because the NCAA never asked the proper questions/Keith didn't fully understand how his class thing was set up.

Wow, if true this was completely avoidable.

[SoCal_Pony]

I'm reasonably sure we self-reported so as to stay one step ahead of the posse. Self-report and take what's coming as a result of the class he didnt need & staffer's help as pointed out by us, or not self report and take what wouldve come beyond the tip of that iceberg.

RGV, I’ve heard that argument before.

It implies that what we were doing was so egregious compared to other top programs that we were wise to self-report.

Maybe that was indeed the case, but I am highly skeptical. HIGHLY skeptical.

I think the error there is thinking SMU operates in a vacuum and that the NCAA would say well to be fair, UNC did much much worse over a longer period of time and so did Syracuse.

Plus we aren't weren't a top program. On our way, but not there. We were and are what we are, and had LB at the forefront.

I have two words for you RGV.

Death Penalty

[PonyKai]

Having said that, I am not of the belief that you judge a coach based on his ability/inability to win certain games. See it a lot in CFB. "If Coach X wins his next two games, he'll likely stay. If not, he's gone." He's either your guy, or he's not. Jank's not the guy. Doesn't matter if he beats TCU. Doesn't matter if he beats Georgetown. Because of this, I want him gone by this evening. More realistically, I want him gone after this season. Because any more time, Moody's going to get emptier, talent will continue to filter out of the program, and fan interest will get further depressed.

2.) Speaking off of RGV's points--I think that needs to be viewed in hindsight. Knowing what we knew then, self-reporting was a defensible strategic position to take. No one, even the most cynical outsiders, could have foreseen that the NCAA would napalm a program over a single event where the school was self-reporting. What we should learn from that is from now, until the end of time, lawyer up, tell the NCAA to eat sh*t, and never, ever give an inch on anything. Anything other than that behavior, and I'll join the mob with a pitchfork and torch.

Solid Post, thanks for responding.

1) completely agree with you on this point. Don’t know if RGT or Hart do, ergo my comments on such. I just want Jank gone and I simply don’t want any doubt as to why.

2) we must have had different life experiences. I would have strongly advised SMU to lawyer up. ‘94 even implied they hired the wrong firm to represent them. Go figure.

As to Number 2, I don't think we're really that far off. (1) Always, always, always lawyer up; (2) Schools typically hire cheap, garbage firms to save money on these things and it bites them in the rear end; (3) I would still counsel, on the whole, that disclosure and cooperation would be the most appropriate response. But if some of the micro issues discussed above are indeed true, those would be simply unacceptable.

[Mustangsabu]

The lottery type re seat was more than a price adjustment because moved people from their old seats to worse seats. And they had gone up on the prices the previous year so it was not the first time in 30 years they had gone up in seat prices.

And it left a bad taste in loyal seat holders mouths.

There were a couple of prior price adjustments. When they hired LB in 2012 I had seats in 103 and the price of my seats went up to $450 a pop (from $360), and then in the 2013 season they added $2,500 donation to that amount. In 2014 the seat price went to $1,000 (with the $2,500 donation on top). Then in 2015 they wanted $2,500 donation per seat in addition to $1,000 per seat and I moved above the rail to sit with the great unwashed

And then they did the reseat....

[One Trick Pony]

$4,500 to $12,000 on 2 of the 4 = Bye!
I never shaved any points making a fool of my self on free throws anyways.

[redpony]

IMO our pricing should have reflected our total performance. How did these prices compare to our AAC competitors? Some of them have natl. titles and we struggle to get an invite. Our AD apparently does not believe in paying for performance. Obviously if that were the case he would be taking a big pay cut.

It is going to be very very interesting when SD is no longer being paid by ca. Especially if he starts putting together winning seasons. Will the admin. pay him and crap on the assistants or will he be gone and we start the process over again?

[tristatecoog]

With Mike Boone as head of the BoT, I'd imagine the School would have excellent legal representation.