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HART: Who REPLACES Jank? What about Steve Alford?

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Re: HART: Who REPLACES Jank? What about Steve Alford?

Postby JasonB » Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:18 am

SoCal_Pony wrote:
JasonB wrote:Chargios should be viewed as a DITR. In college, anyone who isn't a 4 star or a 3 star with multiple high tier offers is a DITR. Chargois may have been a solid 3 star. but he doesn't fit the upper level recruit category. That is why he falls in that DITR bucket.


IMO, any player from the state of Oklahoma with both OU and OK St offers is not a DITR.

Now a 5’7” PG from the same state without either an OU or Ok St offer, now THAT is your DITR player.


Are you sure that Chargois had offers from OU and OK State? I don't think that was the case. I think there were some suggestions those offers were coming, but I don't think they ever did. His offer list was pretty small... if you think he is at the same level as a recruit as a Ben Moore, then that is even more incriminating against the coaching. rather than the recruiting class.

LA, losing some scholarships didn't hamper the ability to land players, but the OTHER limitations on the program certainly did. It doesn't completely excuse the misses on Froling and Douglas, but there are some impacts there.

All of this said, if we add a stud guard to the current recruiting class, then it is in really good shape. Otherwise, the recruiting class is going to be really sub-par. It really is an either-or condition.
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Re: HART: Who REPLACES Jank? What about Steve Alford?

Postby JasonB » Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:22 am

SoCal_Pony wrote:
skyscraper wrote:Anyone still defending Jank and the way he has run this program is an idiot and willfully uninformed.


Now wwwwaaaaaaiiiiiittttttt a second.

What exactly are you saying about Wild Bill and Ponyboy, or even Jason for that matter.


I fail to see how my posts are defending Jank. I'm just pointing out that what you should be complaining about are the coaching mistakes, the record, the misses on higher end recruits, the missing stud guard in the current class, and the lack of ability to drum up interest in the program. Rather than worrying about DITR recruits that will fill in the back of the bench or transfers that aren't game changing and would most likely just provide depth behind existing starters. There are a lot of reasons to be critical and definitely there is a tree to bark up, you are just barking up the wrong one.
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Re: HART: Who REPLACES Jank? What about Steve Alford?

Postby RI Stang » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:00 am

JasonB wrote:All of this said, if we add a stud guard to the current recruiting class, then it is in really good shape. Otherwise, the recruiting class is going to be really sub-par. It really is an either-or condition.


Are you kidding? How would it be in really good shape? We add one "stud" guard (which of course we know is highly unlikely to happen) to a bunch of guys with hardly any other offers and the class is in "really good shape"?
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Re: HART: Who REPLACES Jank? What about Steve Alford?

Postby SoCal_Pony » Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:19 pm

RI Stang wrote:
JasonB wrote:All of this said, if we add a stud guard to the current recruiting class, then it is in really good shape. Otherwise, the recruiting class is going to be really sub-par. It really is an either-or condition.


Are you kidding? How would it be in really good shape? We add one "stud" guard (which of course we know is highly unlikely to happen) to a bunch of guys with hardly any other offers and the class is in "really good shape"?


We just played an Houston team that is good, but hardly elite compared to prior top AAC teams. The way Memphis and CT are trending, Cincy teams are always tough (this is an off-year for them),Wichita St and hopefully us will get better, I just don't see this Coog team as anything that special.

But they are still the best opponent we have played all season, and they somewhat dominated us at Moody. Dixon White and Douglas played 42 minutes. They shot 0-4 from the field, 5 reb, 5 pf, 1 assist and 2 TOs. In other words, non-factors.

Jason, less than 10 days ago, you said "Young and White are proving to be nice development pieces". Against McNeese or Cornell or Western Carolina, maybe. Against quality opponents, I personally don't see it.

RI is correct. We have terrible depth. This is not a 1 player fix.
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Re: HART: Who REPLACES Jank? What about Steve Alford?

Postby RI Stang » Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:46 pm

Next year we will have at least 5 or 6 guys that will not be able to contribute in any meaningful way. Yet no room for Archie or Liddell because they would have to sit out (until December)?
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Re: HART: Who REPLACES Jank? What about Steve Alford?

Postby PonyLawExpress » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:03 pm

JasonB wrote:
SoCal_Pony wrote:
JasonB wrote:Chargios should be viewed as a DITR. In college, anyone who isn't a 4 star or a 3 star with multiple high tier offers is a DITR. Chargois may have been a solid 3 star. but he doesn't fit the upper level recruit category. That is why he falls in that DITR bucket.


IMO, any player from the state of Oklahoma with both OU and OK St offers is not a DITR.

Now a 5’7” PG from the same state without either an OU or Ok St offer, now THAT is your DITR player.


Are you sure that Chargois had offers from OU and OK State? I don't think that was the case. I think there were some suggestions those offers were coming, but I don't think they ever did. His offer list was pretty small... if you think he is at the same level as a recruit as a Ben Moore, then that is even more incriminating against the coaching. rather than the recruiting class.

LA, losing some scholarships didn't hamper the ability to land players, but the OTHER limitations on the program certainly did. It doesn't completely excuse the misses on Froling and Douglas, but there are some impacts there.

All of this said, if we add a stud guard to the current recruiting class, then it is in really good shape. Otherwise, the recruiting class is going to be really sub-par. It really is an either-or condition.


Chargois I believe had offers from OU and Okie State, but at the time of making a decision I do not believe they were commitable, I think they were older offers. I think his committable offers and top 4 were SMU, UH, CU, and K-State. Not a bad top 4.

Missing on high-end 3-star recruits like Douglas and Froling really hurts. You can only miss on so many guys you land and expect to still have a solid rotation.

I have no idea why we didn't/wouldn't take Archie or Liddell... it makes no sense. If we were able to add a stud guard and ship off Douglas and add another piece then this class might be salvageable, but that isn't where you want to be at this stage of recruiting for the 2019 class... you want to have a solid class and core and be looking to add that one extra guy in the Spring to make the class go from good to really good not from poor to average, which is where we are at.
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Re: HART: Who REPLACES Jank? What about Steve Alford?

Postby JasonB » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:49 pm

RI Stang wrote:
JasonB wrote:All of this said, if we add a stud guard to the current recruiting class, then it is in really good shape. Otherwise, the recruiting class is going to be really sub-par. It really is an either-or condition.


Are you kidding? How would it be in really good shape? We add one "stud" guard (which of course we know is highly unlikely to happen) to a bunch of guys with hardly any other offers and the class is in "really good shape"?


When I say stud guard, I mean someone who would be considered a solid 4 star. A .9 on the 247 rating scale. That is what is necessary. If you look at this recruiting class coming in, you have the JUCO guard who fills a position of need and will be able to contribute immediately. Stud guard would be in line for a starting spot or a significant contributor behind the JUCO. Need need two good recruits in each class, and there are your two. You add to that two DITR recruits for the backend of the bench as development pieces. We haven't recruited for a fill 13 player roster in a long, long time. Pre-LB. You fill those spots with as solid players as you can find. It isn't like McBride and Cook are unknowns. They can play. They are very solid developmental players. And then the A&M transfer to add depth to the frontline, and potentially battle for a starting spot.

That is a good recruiting class that fills positions of need. Now, if you add a solid 3 star guard instead of the stud recruit, I don't think we are where we want to be. And if you add a DITR to go with it, then that isn't nearly enough, it is horrible. If you miss ont he stud and bring in a GT, I think that also isn't going to be enough.

As far as the other potential transfers are concerned... of course we want as many high quality players as possible! No question about it! I'm just saying that I doubt we are able to grab them because we are young at that position with players who now have a decent history. We can't promise starting spots to anyone (except at guard). Please name me a highly rated transfer or high school player who came to SMU even though we had underclassmen starting at that position and doing well (or with Hunt as a true frosh showing well off the bench)? All of larry's players came in when we were recruiting for starting spots. We never got to the point, for a variety of reasons, where we were recruiting depth. So, I just don't buy the narrative that we are not allowing these higher ranked players to transfer in. It is much more plausible that we are not offering them a guaranteed starting spot, and they are hesitant to come on board.

The more glaring issue is why we don't have PG and SG transfers banging down our door. Because those are the positions that can come in and contribute immediately.

As to the comments about White and Young - those are DITR recruits, and they already passed Douglas in the pecking order. That is why I think they are solid developmental recruits. White can handle and can shoot. He is lost on the defensive end, but I think he has the length and athleticism to grow there. Young has length for days. Those are players who will contribute nicely off the bench their junior and senior years. They aren't the problem with this roster.

Don't let the coaching issue drop in this. Whitt/McMurray/Foster/Mike/Chargois should be able to compete. There is talent there. Hunt + Dixon are really nice off the bench. Not a lot of depth there, and losing Foster really hurts. But even without Foster, a good coach should be above .500 with that group in conference.
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Re: HART: Who REPLACES Jank? What about Steve Alford?

Postby friarwolf » Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:03 pm

We’ve got sh$t. A 4 star point guard would give us our first good player. Wake up and smell the coffee. Trying to talk yourself into thinking these players the idiot has signed can be good is useless. Just like the players he signed last year. We are screwed until we shove the POS out the door and bring in a real coach with real assistants......
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Re: HART: Who REPLACES Jank? What about Steve Alford?

Postby Rebel10 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:47 pm

From what I am seeing we need more than a point guard for next year. That is unless you are playing in the Sunbelt conference. But I see the one player away narrative JasonB is trying to advance. Similar to Wild Mustang. Basketball version of the June Jone defense.
Last edited by Rebel10 on Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HART: Who REPLACES Jank? What about Steve Alford?

Postby SoCal_Pony » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:24 pm

friarwolf wrote:We’ve got sh$t. A 4 star point guard would give us our first good player. Wake up and smell the coffee. Trying to talk yourself into thinking these players the idiot has signed can be good is useless. Just like the players he signed last year. We are screwed until we shove the POS out the door and bring in a real coach with real assistants......


Yep. Jason has repeatedly said a rotation of Charg, Mike, Hunt and Whitt (and maybe McMurray if we are lucky) would be a solid rotation next season. Well guess what, that 'solid' rotation just got their [deleted] whipped by a Memphis team that is most likely just an NIT team this season, but will be CONSIDERABLY better next year and the years to come.

He does that in FB as well. IMO not critical enough.
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Re: HART: Who REPLACES Jank? What about Steve Alford?

Postby JasonB » Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:05 pm

SoCal_Pony wrote:
friarwolf wrote:We’ve got sh$t. A 4 star point guard would give us our first good player. Wake up and smell the coffee. Trying to talk yourself into thinking these players the idiot has signed can be good is useless. Just like the players he signed last year. We are screwed until we shove the POS out the door and bring in a real coach with real assistants......


Yep. Jason has repeatedly said a rotation of Charg, Mike, Hunt and Whitt (and maybe McMurray if we are lucky) would be a solid rotation next season. Well guess what, that 'solid' rotation just got their [deleted] whipped by a Memphis team that is most likely just an NIT team this season, but will be CONSIDERABLY better next year and the years to come.

He does that in FB as well. IMO not critical enough.


Please, let me state this very clearly.

Yes, I believe that Ethan, Mike, Hunt, Whitt and a TOP tier guard are good enough players to compete next season. And that White, Young, even Ray could become decent role players off the bench.

Yes, I believe that a top tier guard is the most important need next season, and that none of the current recruits are enough to fill that hole. The staff has to be held accountable for that.

Yes, I have always been critical of McMurray because he is streaky and not a very good defender. And he doesn't represent the culture that LB had established.

Yes, I also believe that the team isn't very well coached on the offensive or defensive end, and that we aren't getting the most out of what we have. The skill level of this team is not a 18-12 or worse team. Whitt, Hunt, and the top tier guards are high end recruits, Ethan is a solid recruit who has performed well at a new position at a young age, and Mike had success in the A10 as a true frosh.
That should be good enough to compete. The staff should be held accountable for that.

Yes, I think we missed on some of our bigger recruits - Froling and Douglas - and that the coaching staff has to be held accountable for that.

Yes, I think we haven't seen a progression in development in our players, and the coaching staff has to be held accountable for that.

Yes, I think that we have seen an uptick in injuries and at the same time we have transitioned from people who are thick and built (Sterling, Ben, Semi) to string beans who aren't filling out, and the staff has to be held accountable for that.

So please don't paint this picture that I am pro-Jank just because I'm trying to redirect people from focusing on the Archie BS into focusing on these types of things.
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Re: HART: Who REPLACES Jank? What about Steve Alford?

Postby JasonB » Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:16 pm

Almost forgot... you also hold the coach accountable when he spends the entire summer promoting that Whitt had fixed his outside shot, and then he comes back with the same issue from deep and the same hitch. And you hold him accountable when other players like Douglas aren't progressing like we all thought they would. Ethan has a new technique but the same holes in his game. Player development is a critical responsibility.
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Re: HART: Who REPLACES Jank? What about Steve Alford?

Postby Rebel10 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:23 pm

Compete is a really general term. When someone says compete does that mean compete for one of the top 2 spots in the conference or middle of the pack mediocrity?
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Re: HART: Who REPLACES Jank? What about Steve Alford?

Postby friarwolf » Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:26 am

We competed with RoboDo until 10 minutes left in most games and then got steamrolled. I don’t want to be competitive, I want to step on throats like we did for those few glorious years........
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Re: HART: Who REPLACES Jank? What about Steve Alford?

Postby mtrout » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:11 am

SMU athletic dept prime directive is to "compete" for championships. But by default, isn't that what every sport does when they roll into their conference tournament?
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