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Re: Official: SMU @ Memphis

Postby PonyKai » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:30 am

friarwolf wrote:Ummh Kai, I am with you brutha but it already is a total rebuild......


I think at this point what's holding me back is for next year, your PG (Whitt) is much better than when Brown took over for RoboDoh (J-Frog). You've got Hunt (corner stone), Shaggy (good but huge holes in game), and I-Mike (solid contributor), and Phelps (projecting decent minutes from a TAMU big). And there are still immediate contributors available. Jank will either whiff or pass on them. But a well-selected replacement would at least have a shot.

Seems kind of parallel to Brown's first year. There was some talent, but no depth. So we looked good for decent clips, but would fade, etc., and were approx. 500.

Is that a total rebuild? I'm not gonna go to the mat on that either way. Brown isn't coming back and he's unique, but his general attributes provide a roadmap to what success looks like at SMU. Going to be expensive. Needs to have some swagger and showman in him. Don't let the inmates run the asylum. Pay for a good staff. Keep thriving on transfers. Go national. Engage the fan base, etc.
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Re: Official: SMU @ Memphis

Postby mtrout » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:40 am

Those that fund the program have the power howver it’s gotta get old that the solution is always MORE money. Even if you fire Jank you still have to pay him on top of whoever you hire as a replacement.
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Re: Official: SMU @ Memphis

Postby Treadway21 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:08 am

mtrout wrote:Those that fund the program have the power howver it’s gotta get old that the solution is always MORE money. Even if you fire Jank you still have to pay him on top of whoever you hire as a replacement.

The price gets steeper the longer you let it linger. The less attractive the job gets as the less fans you have in the stands and as the talent level drops off.

The further away SMU gets from the successful Larry Brown program the harder it will be to bring it back.
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Re: Official: SMU @ Memphis

Postby Rebel10 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:23 pm

PonyKai wrote:
friarwolf wrote:Ummh Kai, I am with you brutha but it already is a total rebuild......


I think at this point what's holding me back is for next year, your PG (Whitt) is much better than when Brown took over for RoboDoh (J-Frog). You've got Hunt (corner stone), Shaggy (good but huge holes in game), and I-Mike (solid contributor), and Phelps (projecting decent minutes from a TAMU big). And there are still immediate contributors available. Jank will either whiff or pass on them. But a well-selected replacement would at least have a shot.

Seems kind of parallel to Brown's first year. There was some talent, but no depth. So we looked good for decent clips, but would fade, etc., and were approx. 500.

Is that a total rebuild? I'm not gonna go to the mat on that either way. Brown isn't coming back and he's unique, but his general attributes provide a roadmap to what success looks like at SMU. Going to be expensive. Needs to have some swagger and showman in him. Don't let the inmates run the asylum. Pay for a good staff. Keep thriving on transfers. Go national. Engage the fan base, etc.


If you recruit well like Penny is doing then you won’t have to be highly reliant on transfers. I guess you are referring to the players as inmates and we have a few former players that post on this board that are outstanding people not inmates. And if SMU continues to lose it will be a total rebuild, now it might not be a total rebuild in the MVC or Sunbelt but it would be in the AAC.
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Re: Official: SMU @ Memphis

Postby friarwolf » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:44 pm

PonyKai wrote:
friarwolf wrote:Ummh Kai, I am with you brutha but it already is a total rebuild......


I think at this point what's holding me back is for next year, your PG (Whitt) is much better than when Brown took over for RoboDoh (J-Frog). You've got Hunt (corner stone), Shaggy (good but huge holes in game), and I-Mike (solid contributor), and Phelps (projecting decent minutes from a TAMU big). And there are still immediate contributors available. Jank will either whiff or pass on them. But a well-selected replacement would at least have a shot.

Seems kind of parallel to Brown's first year. There was some talent, but no depth. So we looked good for decent clips, but would fade, etc., and were approx. 500.

Is that a total rebuild? I'm not gonna go to the mat on that either way. Brown isn't coming back and he's unique, but his general attributes provide a roadmap to what success looks like at SMU. Going to be expensive. Needs to have some swagger and showman in him. Don't let the inmates run the asylum. Pay for a good staff. Keep thriving on transfers. Go national. Engage the fan base, etc.


Actually, I think Brown’s first squad would kill this squad. Shawn Williams, Cannen Cunningham, Jalen
Jones, Nick Russell, Ryan Manuel, with Sir Nic and Marcus sitting out.....Candidly, we’ve got a gamer with bad shot form in Whitt, a big man wimp in Shaggy, a freshman with some skills in Hunt, and a collection of castoffs, retreads and NAIA type talent with a shi$$ty coach. If Brown walked in today, my guess is he’d keep those 3 and run off the rest. Shaggy would probably quit.......
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Re: Official: SMU @ Memphis

Postby PonyKai » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:46 pm

Rebel10 wrote:
PonyKai wrote:
friarwolf wrote:Ummh Kai, I am with you brutha but it already is a total rebuild......


I think at this point what's holding me back is for next year, your PG (Whitt) is much better than when Brown took over for RoboDoh (J-Frog). You've got Hunt (corner stone), Shaggy (good but huge holes in game), and I-Mike (solid contributor), and Phelps (projecting decent minutes from a TAMU big). And there are still immediate contributors available. Jank will either whiff or pass on them. But a well-selected replacement would at least have a shot.

Seems kind of parallel to Brown's first year. There was some talent, but no depth. So we looked good for decent clips, but would fade, etc., and were approx. 500.

Is that a total rebuild? I'm not gonna go to the mat on that either way. Brown isn't coming back and he's unique, but his general attributes provide a roadmap to what success looks like at SMU. Going to be expensive. Needs to have some swagger and showman in him. Don't let the inmates run the asylum. Pay for a good staff. Keep thriving on transfers. Go national. Engage the fan base, etc.


If you recruit well like Penny is doing then you won’t have to be highly reliant on transfers. I guess you are referring to the players as inmates and we have a few former players that post on this board that are outstanding people not inmates. And if SMU continues to lose it will be a total rebuild, now it might not be a total rebuild in the MVC or Sunbelt but it would be in the AAC.


SMU has been extremely successful gradually rolling in transfers over the last 6 years. It should continue moving forward. It's not an either/or. Recruit even at 3/4 the level Penny does and bring in a transfer once a year or every two years. That's how SMU's going to be successful, because absent dropping enormous bags, we aren't going to bring in a Top 10-Top 20 class every year.

Also, thank you so much for explaining to me that former players might post on the board and that they're excellent people. It's absolutely clear my colloquial statement was intended to malign each and every one of them personally, and wasn't at all meant in the way the phrase has been used for 100 years as in letting those who aren't in charge run the show. Thank goodness you helped me clear that up.
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Re: Official: SMU @ Memphis

Postby Rebel10 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:44 pm

Your statement was thrive on transfers. I have no problem in bringing in a a transfer every year or so but recruiting solid freshman should be the prime objective. If our main goal is to make relying on transfers our prime objective then SMU will be like most other middle of the road mid majors. If SMU can go top 50 or so consistently in recruiting I think the team will be fine. Just need to get some more top 200 recruits like Hunt imo.
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Re: Official: SMU @ Memphis

Postby tristatecoog » Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:59 pm

I just heard from someone a few weeks ago that "our best player will be back this week" and that "well, Lipscomb also beat TCU." Sure enough, when Jarrey got solidly into the rotation, the team was playing much better. Then he goes out and the team loses by more than projected to UH and got stomped by Memphis.

When Larry was around, I marveled at how well SMU held things together when it only had a rotation of six people with a walk-on as the seventh player. Now there are nine contributors. Some have been run off. Why run people off if you're so depleted?

On a fun note, I saw the great Larry Brown at Cane's last week. "Order for Larry!" Loved how he brought doughnuts and coffee to the students waiting in line for tickets. Like Pat Knight after Bob, isn't it tough to cut appointed successors loose? You need to do it if it's clearly not working out.
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Re: Official: SMU @ Memphis

Postby DanFreibergerForHeisman » Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:25 pm

tristatecoog wrote:On a fun note, I saw the great Larry Brown at Cane's last week. "Order for Larry!" Loved how he brought doughnuts and coffee to the students waiting in line for tickets.

I loved the good old days
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Re: Official: SMU @ Memphis

Postby Charleston Pony » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:38 pm

Rebel10 wrote:If SMU beats Tulane you will have the Jank supporters jumping up and down proclaiming he should stay.


Did not watch the Memphis fiasco but after Houston, I did not expect this team to be competitive...especially without Jarrey. Just don't assume these guys will beat Tulane.
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Re: Official: SMU @ Memphis

Postby Charleston Pony » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:45 pm

tristatecoog wrote:Jank stays with an 8-8, and probably 7-9, conference record due to Foster’s absence.

How many sanctions are still left? Can’t the team field a 13 man roster?

Six played significant minutes and three played 4-9 minutes. Memphis had nine with 13 or more minutes.



Tough to go 8-8 when there is an 18 game conference schedule, but going 9-9 would be a heck of an accomplishment at this point. I don't see this team winning on the road and even home wins are going to be hard to come by. This team will finish with a losing record and Jank will argue that because of injuries and sanctions, he's down to only 9 scholarship players with 3 of them being frosh so therefore he has no chance of being competitive...even though at this point in the season most teams are playing 7-8 man rotations.
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Re: Official: SMU @ Memphis

Postby DanFreibergerForHeisman » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:53 pm

Charleston Pony wrote: I don't see this team winning on the road and even home wins are going to be hard to come by.

It is tough to win conference games on the road.
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Re: Official: SMU @ Memphis

Postby CenTXpony » Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:44 pm

DanFreibergerForHeisman wrote:
Charleston Pony wrote: I don't see this team winning on the road and even home wins are going to be hard to come by.

It is tough to win conference games on the road.


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Re: Official: SMU @ Memphis

Postby SMU_Alum11 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:46 pm

CenTXpony wrote:
DanFreibergerForHeisman wrote:
Charleston Pony wrote: I don't see this team winning on the road and even home wins are going to be hard to come by.

It is tough to win conference games on the road.


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Re: Official: SMU @ Memphis

Postby JasonB » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:34 am

Rebel10 wrote:Your statement was thrive on transfers. I have no problem in bringing in a a transfer every year or so but recruiting solid freshman should be the prime objective. If our main goal is to make relying on transfers our prime objective then SMU will be like most other middle of the road mid majors. If SMU can go top 50 or so consistently in recruiting I think the team will be fine. Just need to get some more top 200 recruits like Hunt imo.


Top 250 maybe (to include the Ben Moore level)?

But yeah, I think ideally we have three transfers on scholarship at all times - one is in their "sit" year, second is in year one of playing with SMU, and the third is in their second and last year with SMU.

Filling in the rest of the team, we want to have a 7 player rotation of good players, and room for a couple of "busts", which are bound to happen. With two transfers most likely starting, then you have 7 top 250 recruits on the team at all time. That is 10 scholarships. Then you have 3 DITR to make up the rest.

To everyone's point, we aren't at that balance right now. We have more transfers than we normally should and we have more DITR than we normally should.

With 10 non-transfer scholarships, that means you are recruiting 2.5 players every year. Because transfers out are bound to happen, you assume that we are recruiting on average three players every season - 2 top 250 and one DITR. That is probably the minimum level necessary to be competitive in the AAC and obtain NCAA bids.

Of course, that assumes high level transfers, like the Nic Moore, Semi, Whitt and Tolberts of the world. If you don't have that higher level of transfer, the level of the recruit out of HS needs to bump up. So, for example, Mike it looks like will perform around the same level of a 250 level recruit out of HS. If he isn't going to move the needle enough, we would need a top level recruit out of HS to add more athleticism to the team.

For this upcoming class, I think the JUCO would qualify as a top 250 level recruit. But to make up for the lack of quality recruits in past classes and high impact transfers, for the last scholarship spot we would need a top 100 recruit at the 1, 2, or 3 positions to make up the balance.
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