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TCU Basketball reportedly identified in FBI probe

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Re: TCU Basketball reportedly identified in FBI probe

Postby PonyTime » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:07 pm

JasonB wrote:This is an interesting reflection of how our society is evolving.

In both sports and politics, it seems as though you have a subset of the population who believes that you should always try and play by the rules - winning is important, but so is how you play the game.

We have another subset who believes that everyone else is cheating, and comes to the conclusion that not only are you justified in cheating, but if you aren't cheating then you aren't really trying to win.

The way I was raised makes it impossible for me to join the latter camp. But I think that sticks me into the minority of today's society. I'm not sure what the end result of that is.


I like what you are saying here, but I will add in the following comment that is fairly important:

Some of us think that the governing body and enforcement agency (the NCAA) is corrupt and is allowing the "cheating" in certain circumstances and with certain schools via selective enforcement (It's all about the money in the end). And if that is the case - is it really cheating? Are there really two sets of rules out there? Is there a 2 tier system in place for the haves and have nots. To be in the "have not" group and to bury your head in the sand and pretend like there is a fair playing field is the formula that most SMU alums think we have been following for the better part of the last 30 years.

And you are absolutely correct - there are a lot of similarities here between the two organizations that are mentioned here: the NCAA and the FBI.
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Re: TCU Basketball reportedly identified in FBI probe

Postby malonish » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:46 pm

Apparently one of the guys taking tests was Mark Riddell

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a ... xam-taker/

I heard the name before seeing the spelling and thought it makes sense, mrydel was around for most events in history and would remember them for the history exams.
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Re: TCU Basketball reportedly identified in FBI probe

Postby mrydel » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:51 pm

Well if I can pass for 36 years old I can certainly pass an SAT
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Re: TCU Basketball reportedly identified in FBI probe

Postby JasonB » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:40 pm

mustangxc wrote:I think there is still a gray area where we can win enough to qualify for the NCAA tournament and NIT regularly without cheating. Every now and then, we should have enough upperclassmen to make a deep run in the NCAA tournament. That is what I expect.


I agree with that. I think we can fill the roster to 150-250 types without cheating, and every once in a while one of those guys turns into a stud and carries us further.
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Re: TCU Basketball reportedly identified in FBI probe

Postby PonyTime » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:00 am

JasonB wrote:
mustangxc wrote:I think there is still a gray area where we can win enough to qualify for the NCAA tournament and NIT regularly without cheating. Every now and then, we should have enough upperclassmen to make a deep run in the NCAA tournament. That is what I expect.


I agree with that. I think we can fill the roster to 150-250 types without cheating, and every once in a while one of those guys turns into a stud and carries us further.


Isn't that exactly what Doh and Dement did all those years?

15 years and no tournament appearances - I could probably count on one hand the # of "marquee" wins in that time period. And that included multiple NBA players (including a 1st round pick).
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Re: TCU Basketball reportedly identified in FBI probe

Postby mustangxc » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:47 am

Dement was not dealing with a full deck of cards. Doherty is a great recruiter and figurehead but not a good bench coach. Mix in a top 150 transfer here and there and we should be able to compete with the marquee teams every now and then.
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Re: TCU Basketball reportedly identified in FBI probe

Postby PonyTime » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:39 am

mustangxc wrote:Dement was not dealing with a full deck of cards. Doherty is a great recruiter and figurehead but not a good bench coach. Mix in a top 150 transfer here and there and we should be able to compete with the marquee teams every now and then.


Dement was coaching in a conference where UTEP, Tulsa, and Fresno State were the marquee opponents - not exactly UConn, Memphis, and Cincy.
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Re: TCU Basketball reportedly identified in FBI probe

Postby JasonB » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:53 pm

PonyTime wrote:
JasonB wrote:This is an interesting reflection of how our society is evolving.

In both sports and politics, it seems as though you have a subset of the population who believes that you should always try and play by the rules - winning is important, but so is how you play the game.

We have another subset who believes that everyone else is cheating, and comes to the conclusion that not only are you justified in cheating, but if you aren't cheating then you aren't really trying to win.

The way I was raised makes it impossible for me to join the latter camp. But I think that sticks me into the minority of today's society. I'm not sure what the end result of that is.


I like what you are saying here, but I will add in the following comment that is fairly important:

Some of us think that the governing body and enforcement agency (the NCAA) is corrupt and is allowing the "cheating" in certain circumstances and with certain schools via selective enforcement (It's all about the money in the end). And if that is the case - is it really cheating? Are there really two sets of rules out there? Is there a 2 tier system in place for the haves and have nots. To be in the "have not" group and to bury your head in the sand and pretend like there is a fair playing field is the formula that most SMU alums think we have been following for the better part of the last 30 years.

And you are absolutely correct - there are a lot of similarities here between the two organizations that are mentioned here: the NCAA and the FBI.


I guess I am just the type that follows the rules. It sucks if the rules are being enforced improperly, or not against certain groups. But at the end of the day, if you don't follow the rules, it is your problem if you get busted. Nobody seems to want to hold anyone accountable for that anymore. Hell, when playing sports, we were all taught that the person who retaliates gets caught. It's true in real life as well. If you know someone broke the rules, go ahead and break them at your own risk. Because once it becomes clear someone got away with something, they are going to look extra hard for the next one who breaks the rules.

And about your other statements above... I would strongly disagree. Our 30 years of athletic ineptitude wasn't because we followed rules. It was because we had horrible facilities, we had recruiting restrictions imposed by our own university, impossibly high academic standards, made poor choices for coaches, and we didn't have the facilities on campus to help athletes get through their academic work.
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Re: TCU Basketball reportedly identified in FBI probe

Postby JasonB » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:59 pm

PonyTime wrote:
JasonB wrote:
mustangxc wrote:I think there is still a gray area where we can win enough to qualify for the NCAA tournament and NIT regularly without cheating. Every now and then, we should have enough upperclassmen to make a deep run in the NCAA tournament. That is what I expect.


I agree with that. I think we can fill the roster to 150-250 types without cheating, and every once in a while one of those guys turns into a stud and carries us further.


Isn't that exactly what Doh and Dement did all those years?

15 years and no tournament appearances - I could probably count on one hand the # of "marquee" wins in that time period. And that included multiple NBA players (including a 1st round pick).


No way. Doh was an awful coach, but you guys are way, way, way overrating his recruiting ability.

2012 - one player who barely snuck into the top 250. Other 3 outside
2011 - one guy top 150, other 3 outside of top 250
2010 - not even close
2009 - Nope
2008 - McCoy at around 150, the others not close
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Re: TCU Basketball reportedly identified in FBI probe

Postby 78pony » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:23 pm

JasonB wrote:
PonyTime wrote:
JasonB wrote:This is an interesting reflection of how our society is evolving.

In both sports and politics, it seems as though you have a subset of the population who believes that you should always try and play by the rules - winning is important, but so is how you play the game.

We have another subset who believes that everyone else is cheating, and comes to the conclusion that not only are you justified in cheating, but if you aren't cheating then you aren't really trying to win.

The way I was raised makes it impossible for me to join the latter camp. But I think that sticks me into the minority of today's society. I'm not sure what the end result of that is.


I like what you are saying here, but I will add in the following comment that is fairly important:

Some of us think that the governing body and enforcement agency (the NCAA) is corrupt and is allowing the "cheating" in certain circumstances and with certain schools via selective enforcement (It's all about the money in the end). And if that is the case - is it really cheating? Are there really two sets of rules out there? Is there a 2 tier system in place for the haves and have nots. To be in the "have not" group and to bury your head in the sand and pretend like there is a fair playing field is the formula that most SMU alums think we have been following for the better part of the last 30 years.

And you are absolutely correct - there are a lot of similarities here between the two organizations that are mentioned here: the NCAA and the FBI.


I guess I am just the type that follows the rules. It sucks if the rules are being enforced improperly, or not against certain groups. But at the end of the day, if you don't follow the rules, it is your problem if you get busted. Nobody seems to want to hold anyone accountable for that anymore. Hell, when playing sports, we were all taught that the person who retaliates gets caught. It's true in real life as well. If you know someone broke the rules, go ahead and break them at your own risk. Because once it becomes clear someone got away with something, they are going to look extra hard for the next one who breaks the rules.

And about your other statements above... I would strongly disagree. Our 30 years of athletic ineptitude wasn't because we followed rules. It was because we had horrible facilities, we had recruiting restrictions imposed by our own university, impossibly high academic standards, made poor choices for coaches, and we didn't have the facilities on campus to help athletes get through their academic work.


So, if I were a complete outsider reading this I would say you could have a significant leadership problem?
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Re: TCU Basketball reportedly identified in FBI probe

Postby PonyTime » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:16 am

What leadership?

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Re: TCU Basketball reportedly identified in FBI probe

Postby mustangxc » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:24 am

PonyTime wrote:
mustangxc wrote:Dement was not dealing with a full deck of cards. Doherty is a great recruiter and figurehead but not a good bench coach. Mix in a top 150 transfer here and there and we should be able to compete with the marquee teams every now and then.


Dement was coaching in a conference where UTEP, Tulsa, and Fresno State were the marquee opponents - not exactly UConn, Memphis, and Cincy.

That made recruiting that much harder. It’s easier to recruit to the American.
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