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Re: Looks like our fans are clamoring to fire the wrong coac

Postby East Coast Mustang » Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:18 pm

MustangJE wrote:
East Coast Mustang wrote:Mays should probably go at the of the season, but Sam is trash. He doesn’t even try to hide his hatred of SMU with his “reporting.” If you cant see that, congratulations—you’re the idiot!


If you need to hear it from someone else, I can help you out with that. Every word in that article was true.

I'm not Sam Blum. I used to post on this forum under a couple of different names, ProfX and Balatro Diabolus Ex, I stopped posting for a little while in 2018,and when I tried to come back my login stopped working. Half the people on this board know me personally in real life, and they know I have followed the womens basketball program closely for more than 30 years. Every word in that article was true. I either witnessed it personally, or heard about it immediately afterward from the players and their parents.

I'm not saying this out of some kind of antipathy toward SMU. I'm an SMU alum, I played football for the Mustangs, after I graduated I was an adjunct professor in the chemistry department. Part of the reason I came to SMU is that my father went here. I grew up a Mustang. Every word in that article was true.

There's actually more. The article hits the highlights, but there's a fair bit of small, petty stuff that isn't mentioned.

Mays wont be fired this year, he has another year on his contract, and they are not about to pay to buyout his contract early.

Opinions vary within the current team on Mays, the original divide he created was between the players he recruited and the ones he didn't, but it didn't stay that way. Devri Owens was one of his recruits. So were Tiara Davenport, Marie Olsen, the Ellis sisters, and Morgan Smith, all of whom are gone now. Savannah Ellis put links to Klara Bradshaw's blog posts in her twitter feed, and expressed her support. I can tell you stories later, but time is short right now, and I have to get to the game. Tipoff at 2, but I meet some friends beforehand.

Before I go I'm going to mention that the teams on-court performance has declined progressively, every year their RPI and Strength of schedule has dropped lower. 11 wins last year may be better than 10 the year before. and we might win 12 this year, but thats partly due to softer scheduling. I believe the current RPI is 212.

Every word in the article was true. I hope that helps you.

Yeah, none of this changes my position. What Mays said and did wasn’t great, but if you reprinted the worst things every college coach says to his/her players you’d have headlines for years. It was bad, but it doesn’t rise to level of deserving an in-season, for cause firing that would expose the university to a wrongful termination lawsuit. Again, Rick Hart is not stupid and has spent a lot of time around the WBB program in response to what these girls alleged — I don’t think he’d eff this up to preserve the job of a guy whose record is mediocre. I predict Mays is terminated at the end of this season.

I just find it funny that people would run with the word of the Frolings, who complain about everything and think they’re all Michael Jordan clones, and Sam Blum who is obviously an insecure diva that is looking to make a name for himself by crapping all over SMU.
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Re: Looks like our fans are clamoring to fire the wrong coac

Postby East Coast Mustang » Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:28 pm

SMU Pom Mom wrote:I cannot believe what I am reading here. Victim blaming, victim shaming, shooting the messenger, minimizing, excusing, justifying. It's appalling. You have to be a sociopath to be indifferent to what happened.

This is why sexual assault victims don't speak up.

This is completely different, but okay.
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Re: Looks like our fans are clamoring to fire the wrong coac

Postby JasonB » Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:52 am

East Coast Mustang wrote:
SMU Pom Mom wrote:I cannot believe what I am reading here. Victim blaming, victim shaming, shooting the messenger, minimizing, excusing, justifying. It's appalling. You have to be a sociopath to be indifferent to what happened.

This is why sexual assault victims don't speak up.

This is completely different, but okay.


ECM, I understand where you are going with these responses, and I agree in part with what you say. But abuse is abuse. That is the relationship here. It isn't completely different.

All coaches try to force players out. Morris did it. Dykes encouraged players to graduate early and leave. Larry did it with the short point guard. And Mays did it.

That said, there is a line that shouldn't be crossed with what coaches do to force kids to leave. That line was crossed over and over in the 70s, 80s, and 90s and people did nothing about it. Leach crossed a line in Lubbock, and there are a bunch of other examples.

Morally, do I think Mays should go? 100%, absolutely. In a perfect world he would be fired yesterday for treating players like that. He clearly crossed a line. On top of all that, he is a crappy coach. Perfect recipe.

That said, I don't think I'd throw Hart completely under the bus. Did he have alumni willing to write a check? By firing after doing nothing, does it expose SMU to lawsuits? What if other SMU coaches were taking similar actions at the same time and we didn't do anything about them?

There are a lot of financial implications at play, I am sure, which makes it not a black and white situation.

But as an SMU alumni, I sure do wish we had taken a stronger action.
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Re: Looks like our fans are clamoring to fire the wrong coac

Postby CA Mustang » Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:52 pm

MustangJE wrote:I'm not Sam Blum. I used to post on this forum under a couple of different names, ProfX and Balatro Diabolus Ex, I stopped posting for a little while in 2018,and when I tried to come back my login stopped working.

Welcome back. Glad to hear from you again.

JasonB wrote:Morally, do I think Mays should go? 100%, absolutely. In a perfect world he would be fired yesterday for treating players like that. He clearly crossed a line. On top of all that, he is a crappy coach. Perfect recipe. ...

There are a lot of financial implications at play, I am sure, which makes it not a black and white situation. But as an SMU alumni, I sure do wish we had taken a stronger action.

I agree, the best time to fire him would have been in 2018. But if you are saying we have to wait until after next season, then we are wasting another year for everyone involved.
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Re: Looks like our fans are clamoring to fire the wrong coac

Postby SoCal_Pony » Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:19 pm

CA Mustang wrote:
MustangJE wrote:I'm not Sam Blum. I used to post on this forum under a couple of different names, ProfX and Balatro Diabolus Ex, I stopped posting for a little while in 2018,and when I tried to come back my login stopped working.

Welcome back. Glad to hear from you again.

JasonB wrote:Morally, do I think Mays should go? 100%, absolutely. In a perfect world he would be fired yesterday for treating players like that. He clearly crossed a line. On top of all that, he is a crappy coach. Perfect recipe. ...

There are a lot of financial implications at play, I am sure, which makes it not a black and white situation. But as an SMU alumni, I sure do wish we had taken a stronger action.

I agree, the best time to fire him would have been in 2018. But if you are saying we have to wait until after next season, then we are wasting another year for everyone involved.


ProfX is a credible and excellent contributor to this board.

CA, it’s kinda laughable to say we are ‘wasting another year’. SMU has proven beyond any doubt that they don’t care about the on-field performance of their WBB.
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Re: Looks like our fans are clamoring to fire the wrong coac

Postby mustangxc » Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:28 pm

SMU Pom Mom wrote:I cannot believe what I am reading here. Victim blaming, victim shaming, shooting the messenger, minimizing, excusing, justifying. It's appalling. You have to be a sociopath to be indifferent to what happened.

This is why sexual assault victims don't speak up.

East Coast Mustang is a pompous [deleted]. He likes to troll on these forums. Ignore him.
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Re: Looks like our fans are clamoring to fire the wrong coac

Postby mustangxc » Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:31 pm

East Coast Mustang wrote:
MustangJE wrote:
East Coast Mustang wrote:Mays should probably go at the of the season, but Sam is trash. He doesn’t even try to hide his hatred of SMU with his “reporting.” If you cant see that, congratulations—you’re the idiot!


If you need to hear it from someone else, I can help you out with that. Every word in that article was true.

I'm not Sam Blum. I used to post on this forum under a couple of different names, ProfX and Balatro Diabolus Ex, I stopped posting for a little while in 2018,and when I tried to come back my login stopped working. Half the people on this board know me personally in real life, and they know I have followed the womens basketball program closely for more than 30 years. Every word in that article was true. I either witnessed it personally, or heard about it immediately afterward from the players and their parents.

I'm not saying this out of some kind of antipathy toward SMU. I'm an SMU alum, I played football for the Mustangs, after I graduated I was an adjunct professor in the chemistry department. Part of the reason I came to SMU is that my father went here. I grew up a Mustang. Every word in that article was true.

There's actually more. The article hits the highlights, but there's a fair bit of small, petty stuff that isn't mentioned.

Mays wont be fired this year, he has another year on his contract, and they are not about to pay to buyout his contract early.

Opinions vary within the current team on Mays, the original divide he created was between the players he recruited and the ones he didn't, but it didn't stay that way. Devri Owens was one of his recruits. So were Tiara Davenport, Marie Olsen, the Ellis sisters, and Morgan Smith, all of whom are gone now. Savannah Ellis put links to Klara Bradshaw's blog posts in her twitter feed, and expressed her support. I can tell you stories later, but time is short right now, and I have to get to the game. Tipoff at 2, but I meet some friends beforehand.

Before I go I'm going to mention that the teams on-court performance has declined progressively, every year their RPI and Strength of schedule has dropped lower. 11 wins last year may be better than 10 the year before. and we might win 12 this year, but thats partly due to softer scheduling. I believe the current RPI is 212.

Every word in the article was true. I hope that helps you.

Yeah, none of this changes my position. What Mays said and did wasn’t great, but if you reprinted the worst things every college coach says to his/her players you’d have headlines for years. It was bad, but it doesn’t rise to level of deserving an in-season, for cause firing that would expose the university to a wrongful termination lawsuit. Again, Rick Hart is not stupid and has spent a lot of time around the WBB program in response to what these girls alleged — I don’t think he’d eff this up to preserve the job of a guy whose record is mediocre. I predict Mays is terminated at the end of this season.

I just find it funny that people would run with the word of the Frolings, who complain about everything and think they’re all Michael Jordan clones, and Sam Blum who is obviously an insecure diva that is looking to make a name for himself by crapping all over SMU.


I want to see you justify retaining Jankovich with those exact words. Jankovich is light years better than Mays as a recruiter, coach, person, everything. I'll say it again, I was sure he'd get fired at the end of last season.
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Re: Looks like our fans are clamoring to fire the wrong coac

Postby East Coast Mustang » Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:57 pm

mustangxc wrote:I want to see you justify retaining Jankovich with those exact words. Jankovich is light years better than Mays as a recruiter, coach, person, everything. I'll say it again, I was sure he'd get fired at the end of last season.

??? No one has been more adamant about NOT retaining Jank than me. He was handed a top ten roster with four NBA players (plus Jarrey) and proceeded to run the program into the ground with his arrogance, incompetence and laziness.

Off court issues aside, if you’re implying that I’m giving Mays a longer leash than Jank, well, yeah, because no one really cares about women’s bball. Whereas our men’s program has the potential to be nationally relevant and selling Moody out on a consistent basis with the right coach.
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Re: Looks like our fans are clamoring to fire the wrong coac

Postby mustangxc » Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:40 pm

East Coast Mustang wrote:
mustangxc wrote:I want to see you justify retaining Jankovich with those exact words. Jankovich is light years better than Mays as a recruiter, coach, person, everything. I'll say it again, I was sure he'd get fired at the end of last season.

??? No one has been more adamant about NOT retaining Jank than me. He was handed a top ten roster with four NBA players (plus Jarrey) and proceeded to run the program into the ground with his arrogance, incompetence and laziness.

Off court issues aside, if you’re implying that I’m giving Mays a longer leash than Jank, well, yeah, because no one really cares about women’s bball. Whereas our men’s program has the potential to be nationally relevant and selling Moody out on a consistent basis with the right coach.


Exactly my point! You want to keep Mays yet you are leading the lynch mob for Jankovich. If SMU is serious about basketball, probably both need to be replaced. However, college athletics are not pro sports even if many programs are run that way. Winning is very important, but not the most important thing at an institution of higher learning. Mays should have been fired a couple years ago and is a no-brainer no matter how you look at it. I can at least understand the argument for keeping Jankovich. By all indications he is a good person. We have the makings of a very competitive team next season and if we fire Jankovich we may lose all of our top players. He is loved by his former players especially Nic Moore, as well as current players including Kendric Davis and Feron Hunt.
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Re: Looks like our fans are clamoring to fire the wrong coac

Postby East Coast Mustang » Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:55 pm

mustangxc wrote:
East Coast Mustang wrote:
mustangxc wrote:I want to see you justify retaining Jankovich with those exact words. Jankovich is light years better than Mays as a recruiter, coach, person, everything. I'll say it again, I was sure he'd get fired at the end of last season.

??? No one has been more adamant about NOT retaining Jank than me. He was handed a top ten roster with four NBA players (plus Jarrey) and proceeded to run the program into the ground with his arrogance, incompetence and laziness.

Off court issues aside, if you’re implying that I’m giving Mays a longer leash than Jank, well, yeah, because no one really cares about women’s bball. Whereas our men’s program has the potential to be nationally relevant and selling Moody out on a consistent basis with the right coach.


Exactly my point! You want to keep Mays yet you are leading the lynch mob for Jankovich. If SMU is serious about basketball, probably both need to be replaced. However, college athletics are not pro sports even if many programs are run that way. Winning is very important, but not the most important thing at an institution of higher learning. Mays should have been fired a couple years ago and is a no-brainer no matter how you look at it. I can at least understand the argument for keeping Jankovich. By all indications he is a good person. We have the makings of a very competitive team next season and if we fire Jankovich we may lose all of our top players. He is loved by his former players especially Nic Moore, as well as current players including Kendric Davis and Feron Hunt.

Ok well find someone who wants to stroke the fat check to buyout Mays’ contract....no one does, because women’s basketball doesn’t move the needle like men’s basketball does. If we were P5 and making $30MM a year off our TV contract then we could swing it, but right now, it’s not feasible.

I’m not defending Mays off court actions, just saying that if they don’t rise to the level of necessitating immediate termination (and I trust that Rick did his due diligence and determined they didn’t) then we’re in a tough spot. Everyone wants to be a keyboard hero, feign outrage and feel good about themselves for getting someone fired these days in the woke SJW era, but there are financial considerations that people don’t realize.

As for Jankovich, Moody is now half full on a good night and we just blew an 18 point halftime lead to a short handed team at the bottom of our conference standings. That’s where we’re at in year 4 of Jank at the helm. We have zero shot of an NCAA bid unless we go on an improbable run and win the AAC tourney because his OOC scheduling was so pathetic. I admit we have a few good pieces but with Jank at the helm it doesn’t matter because he can’t coach.
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Re: Looks like our fans are clamoring to fire the wrong coac

Postby mustangxc » Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:25 am

East Coast Mustang wrote:Ok well find someone who wants to stroke the fat check to buyout Mays’ contract....no one does, because women’s basketball doesn’t move the needle like men’s basketball does. If we were P5 and making $30MM a year off our TV contract then we could swing it, but right now, it’s not feasible.

I’m not defending Mays off court actions, just saying that if they don’t rise to the level of necessitating immediate termination (and I trust that Rick did his due diligence and determined they didn’t) then we’re in a tough spot. Everyone wants to be a keyboard hero, feign outrage and feel good about themselves for getting someone fired these days in the woke SJW era, but there are financial considerations that people don’t realize.

As for Jankovich, Moody is now half full on a good night and we just blew an 18 point halftime lead to a short handed team at the bottom of our conference standings. That’s where we’re at in year 4 of Jank at the helm. We have zero shot of an NCAA bid unless we go on an improbable run and win the AAC tourney because his OOC scheduling was so pathetic. I admit we have a few good pieces but with Jank at the helm it doesn’t matter because he can’t coach.


In your previous comments you were at best giving Mays a pass with your meh attitude if not defending his actions. You say you trust Rick's judgement, so why don't you trust his judgement with the Jankovich decision too? You have created numerous threads to bash Jankovich and urge his firing, yet Rick is the same person making both decisions. You state there are financial ramifications to firing Mays, well those same exact ramifications exist for Jankovich if not moreso due to the size of the contract. Up to this point no one wants to write a check to buyout Jankovich so sit back and wait it out with the same attitude you apply to Mays. I really think Hart should be fired immediately because if he had been doing his job, Mays would have justifiably been fired for cause and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
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A message to the SMU Community

Postby AfricanMustang » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:34 pm

February 10, 2020

It is the goal of the University that all of our programs and campus experiences provide a supportive and growth enhancing climate for our students. Within our athletic department we have a clear standard of preparing our students for life and providing an opportunity for them to develop their athletic skills while progressing toward their chosen academic degree. Thousands of student-athletes over the years have achieved both and are now very supportive alumni.

A recent media report has identified a time two years ago, during the 2017-2018 academic year, that an environment existed within the women’s basketball program that did not meet the goal of being both competitive and supportive of our student-athletes. Through feedback from players and exit interviews, Athletic Director Rick Hart was informed of inappropriate comments by Coach Travis Mays who was beginning his second year as head coach. He immediately and clearly addressed them with Coach Mays. In addition, before the beginning of the next academic year, in the fall of 2018, he hired an experienced head coach, Rob Evans, to mentor Coach Mays and to also be available to other head coaches. Also, rather than having another staff member serve as the administrative liaison with the women’s basketball program, in the following year, 2018-2019, Director Hart himself served in that role in order to have more opportunities to interact with Coach Mays and to coordinate his efforts with those of Rob Evans. At the request of Director Hart, Dr. Maria Dixon Hall, Senior Advisor to the President for Cultural Intelligence, began working with the women’s basketball coaches in April 2019 and the team in August 2019 to improve team communications. Therefore, Director Hart recognized the need for mentoring and supervision to ensure that such responses did not reoccur. He took the supervisory actions that were both needed and appropriate.

There has to be a clear line between communications that develop a competitive, tough-minded basketball team and those that are potentially traumatic. The actions taken over the past two years have moved the women’s basketball team under Coach Mays toward an appropriately competitive but supportive environment for our student-athletes.

https://www.smu.edu/News/2020/A-message ... -Community
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Re: Looks like our fans are clamoring to fire the wrong coac

Postby East Coast Mustang » Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:30 pm

mustangxc wrote:
East Coast Mustang wrote:Ok well find someone who wants to stroke the fat check to buyout Mays’ contract....no one does, because women’s basketball doesn’t move the needle like men’s basketball does. If we were P5 and making $30MM a year off our TV contract then we could swing it, but right now, it’s not feasible.

I’m not defending Mays off court actions, just saying that if they don’t rise to the level of necessitating immediate termination (and I trust that Rick did his due diligence and determined they didn’t) then we’re in a tough spot. Everyone wants to be a keyboard hero, feign outrage and feel good about themselves for getting someone fired these days in the woke SJW era, but there are financial considerations that people don’t realize.

As for Jankovich, Moody is now half full on a good night and we just blew an 18 point halftime lead to a short handed team at the bottom of our conference standings. That’s where we’re at in year 4 of Jank at the helm. We have zero shot of an NCAA bid unless we go on an improbable run and win the AAC tourney because his OOC scheduling was so pathetic. I admit we have a few good pieces but with Jank at the helm it doesn’t matter because he can’t coach.


In your previous comments you were at best giving Mays a pass with your meh attitude if not defending his actions. You say you trust Rick's judgement, so why don't you trust his judgement with the Jankovich decision too? You have created numerous threads to bash Jankovich and urge his firing, yet Rick is the same person making both decisions. You state there are financial ramifications to firing Mays, well those same exact ramifications exist for Jankovich if not moreso due to the size of the contract. Up to this point no one wants to write a check to buyout Jankovich so sit back and wait it out with the same attitude you apply to Mays. I really think Hart should be fired immediately because if he had been doing his job, Mays would have justifiably been fired for cause and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

You think the Jank decision is Rick’s to make? It’s not. It’s David Miller’s. And yes there are financial ramifications to firing Jankovich, but in his case it’s two-sided. As I said earlier, Moody is half full on a good night this year and barring some miracle in the AAC tourney I’d bet season ticket renewals will be down again after this season. There is no buzz whatsoever around the b-ball team anymore, Jank has killed it all off. In a revenue sport, it’s often times more expensive to keep the wrong coach rather than biting the bullet and hiring the right guy (particularly when you consider Jank could be filling anywhere from 4-6 spots in the 2021 class). The same can not be said for women’s b-ball, where the financial impact of a 25-win team vs a 15-win team simply isn’t that significant.

Lastly, you say Mays would've been “justifiably fired for cause.” Are you an employment lawyer? Because I’m pretty sure Rick ran this up the chain to the university’s attorneys and they likely told him SMU would get slapped with a big wrongful termination suit if they tried to fire Mays based on a couple former players claiming he said mean things to them. I mean seriously, do you think Rick kept a mediocre WBB coach with off court baggage around when he could’ve fired him for cause? I know Rick takes his lumps on here, but he ain’t that stupid.
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Re: Looks like our fans are clamoring to fire the wrong coac

Postby PonyLaw90 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:14 pm

Mays’ would not have a cause of action for wrongful termination. His firing, if any, would be based on the terms of his contract. I’m certain that in the termination provision a catch-all phrase would apply: “failure to promote the interests of the University”, “failure to effectively carry out the core academic and emotional well being of the student athletes” or the like. In addition , I am certain there are performance and/or graduation measures which if considered would be additional basis for the end of his coaching tenure.

Jami is a different animal. No NCAA or Compliance issues, no mass defections. His would be a performance based firing and ultimately a matter of a mutual agreement to part ways with $$ being paid.
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Re: Looks like our fans are clamoring to fire the wrong coac

Postby Pony ^ » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:43 pm

Just please fire Rick Hart. Should have been done 2 years ago
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