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I’m not asking for much...

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Re: I’m not asking for much...

Postby redpony » Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:42 pm

IIRC before the start of last season it was said that if Jank didn't make the NCAA playoffs he was gone, Then during the season (seeing the disaster that it was) the powers that be said if he didn't make the NIT he would be out. Now we see people 'hoping' we will get to the 'junior dance' (NIT). My how opinions have disintegrated over the last couple of years.

Since SMU is so poor and can only afford to build fountains instead of top level bball teams perhaps they should drop down to the level that they can afford instead of trying to play with the big dogs. FCS anybody??
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Re: I’m not asking for much...

Postby ponyboy » Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:55 pm

EastStang, you’ll get more credibility if you post that you’re happy for the team after wins. Otherwise, it’s clear you have an irrational vendetta. Cheers.
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Re: I’m not asking for much...

Postby ponypatrick » Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:21 pm

SoCal_Pony wrote:
friarwolf wrote:Take out the first year with Brown's players and what have you got???????


Sagarin Rankings by Year

2014 LB - 30th
2015 LB - 32rd
2016 LB - 19th

2017 transition year LB to tank -19th

2018 tank - 65th
2019 tank - 97th
2020 tank - 96th

This team, next year, will have 6 seniors.



Great observation ! Sometimes numbers lie , but those certainly don't......Jank needs to go !!!!
Like the past 2 seasons, they will have a cupcake OOC schedule.
I predict now they will be a bubble NIT team, based more on their OOC than talent.
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Re: I’m not asking for much...

Postby EastStang » Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:03 pm

ponyboy wrote:EastStang, you’ll get more credibility if you post that you’re happy for the team after wins. Otherwise, it’s clear you have an irrational vendetta. Cheers.
Not sure what you mean. I'm always happy when we win. But losing is a learning experience. I see mistakes on the Court, I'll certainly put in my two cents. In this thread all I said, was that we're in mid-major land and we'll probably not be great every year, but have a chance at a tourney team every four. No agenda there, just life as a mid-major.
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Re: I’m not asking for much...

Postby RGV Pony » Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:20 pm

redpony wrote:IIRC before the start of last season it was said that if Jank didn't make the NCAA playoffs he was gone, Then during the season (seeing the disaster that it was) the powers that be said if he didn't make the NIT he would be out. Now we see people 'hoping' we will get to the 'junior dance' (NIT). My how opinions have disintegrated over the last couple of years.

Since SMU is so poor and can only afford to build fountains instead of top level bball teams perhaps they should drop down to the level that they can afford instead of trying to play with the big dogs. FCS anybody??
There is no FCS in basketball. Hence the 'F'
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Re: I’m not asking for much...

Postby JasonB » Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:35 pm

redpony wrote:IIRC before the start of last season it was said that if Jank didn't make the NCAA playoffs he was gone, Then during the season (seeing the disaster that it was) the powers that be said if he didn't make the NIT he would be out. Now we see people 'hoping' we will get to the 'junior dance' (NIT). My how opinions have disintegrated over the last couple of years.

Since SMU is so poor and can only afford to build fountains instead of top level bball teams perhaps they should drop down to the level that they can afford instead of trying to play with the big dogs. FCS anybody??


I was one who thought he would be let go at the end of last season. When he came back, my expectations were NIT and top 4/5 this year, and NCAA next year. At this point, I do think that if the team misses the NIT he is at risk of not making it to next season.
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Re: I’m not asking for much...

Postby redpony » Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:47 pm

RGV Pony wrote: ]There is no FCS in basketball. Hence the 'F'


exactly my point - shut the damn thing down if you can't afford to play with the big boys.
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Re: I’m not asking for much...

Postby sadderbudweiser » Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:15 pm

This just in:

Budweiser ain’t feelin’ it tonight.
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Re: I’m not asking for much...

Postby ponyboy » Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:11 am

EastStang wrote:
ponyboy wrote:EastStang, you’ll get more credibility if you post that you’re happy for the team after wins. Otherwise, it’s clear you have an irrational vendetta. Cheers.
Not sure what you mean. I'm always happy when we win. But losing is a learning experience. I see mistakes on the Court, I'll certainly put in my two cents. In this thread all I said, was that we're in mid-major land and we'll probably not be great every year, but have a chance at a tourney team every four. No agenda there, just life as a mid-major.


Fair.
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Re: I’m not asking for much...

Postby Mustangsabu » Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:23 pm

redpony wrote:IIRC before the start of last season it was said that if Jank didn't make the NCAA playoffs he was gone, Then during the season (seeing the disaster that it was) the powers that be said if he didn't make the NIT he would be out. Now we see people 'hoping' we will get to the 'junior dance' (NIT). My how opinions have disintegrated over the last couple of years.

Since SMU is so poor and can only afford to build fountains instead of top level bball teams perhaps they should drop down to the level that they can afford instead of trying to play with the big dogs. FCS anybody??


So a 20-win team doesn't belong in Division 1 BBall?

We are SMU folks..... don't get sucking in to Tricky Ricky and his "Peer Schools" schtick
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Re: I’m not asking for much...

Postby LA_Mustang » Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:02 pm

Mustangsabu wrote:
redpony wrote:IIRC before the start of last season it was said that if Jank didn't make the NCAA playoffs he was gone, Then during the season (seeing the disaster that it was) the powers that be said if he didn't make the NIT he would be out. Now we see people 'hoping' we will get to the 'junior dance' (NIT). My how opinions have disintegrated over the last couple of years.

Since SMU is so poor and can only afford to build fountains instead of top level bball teams perhaps they should drop down to the level that they can afford instead of trying to play with the big dogs. FCS anybody??


So a 20-win team doesn't belong in Division 1 BBall?

We are SMU folks..... don't get sucking in to Tricky Ricky and his "Peer Schools" schtick

I know you’re critical of people who support/praise LB and slam Jank. Yet, we all know any successful HC in major college b-ball skirts the rules, regardless what is said or perpetuated. That said, in your opinion what is a reasonable expectation of the basketball HC at SMU in terms of scheduling, winning , promoting and recruiting specifically? I would love to know your thoughts on all four.
SMU-12 NCAA appearances, 1 Final Four
2014-15 & 2016-17 AAC Men's Basketball Champs

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Re: I’m not asking for much...

Postby JasonB » Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:46 am

I want to play:

1) Winning - my expectations are that a coach will consistently get SMU to the NCAA tournament and compete for the conference title. This year, because of reasons stated below, my expectations were tempered because of the rebuild to be a top 4 finish and an NIT bid.

2) Scheduling - I would like it to be competitive with big names. But not at the expense or risk of item 1. When the team is good enough to play at a high level, I expect a competitive schedule. While this is related to item 1, it isn't as important at item 1. It is a means to an end.

3) promoting - IMHO, what Dykes and LB have shown is that likeability of the coach is a reall yimportant factor for the SMU community. That is clearly something that should be taken into account when we hire a new coach. But I think item 1 takes precedent. There is a relationship of course - promoting improves attendance, which improves the home record, which impacts winning. But again, it is a means to the end.

4) recruiting - obviously a really important factor for item 1, and again is a means to an end. At the end of the day, if we are meeting winning expectations, then I don't care how we get there. BTW I think it is important that we note recruiting started to slip under LB when the sanctions were first rumored and continued the free fall. Our average last year was significantly dragged downwards by Cook.
Year, national rank, conference rank, ave rating
2012, 55, 5, .8524
2013 (LB), 23, 2, .9194
2014 - nothing
2015, 40, 2, .9196
2016, 64, 3, .8758
2017, 61, 3, .8782
2018, 93, 6, .8809
2019, 69, 6, .8661

All of these rankings exclude transfers.

When you look individually at our better players over the past years:
Cunningham: .89
Yannick: .9
Sterling: .93
Moore: .84
Shake: .95
Foster: .86

It would indicate that to compete for championships, you need to recruit at least 5 players at .89 or better and a bench at .86. So your average needs to be up at .88 or so to balance the two. Based on our current roster and rankings, we would have 3 clear starters and two tweeners on a good team, and then a lot of solid bench players.

Current roster:
Davis: .92
Jolly: .88
Band:.87
Mike: N/A
Jasey:.86
Ethan: .88
Hunt: .89
CJ: N/A
Smith: .87
McNeil: .87
McBride: .86
Young: .86
Douglas: .8999

Based on that analysis, the recruiting improved last season, but still isn't where it needs to be to drive true championship contenders. But again, it is a means to an end. Number 1 is what really matters.
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Re: I’m not asking for much...

Postby SoCal_Pony » Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:03 pm

JasonB wrote:I want to play:

1) Winning - my expectations are that a coach will consistently get SMU to the NCAA tournament and compete for the conference title. This year, because of reasons stated below, my expectations were tempered because of the rebuild to be a top 4 finish and an NIT bid.

2) Scheduling - I would like it to be competitive with big names. But not at the expense or risk of item 1. When the team is good enough to play at a high level, I expect a competitive schedule. While this is related to item 1, it isn't as important at item 1. It is a means to an end.

3) promoting - IMHO, what Dykes and LB have shown is that likeability of the coach is a reall yimportant factor for the SMU community. That is clearly something that should be taken into account when we hire a new coach. But I think item 1 takes precedent. There is a relationship of course - promoting improves attendance, which improves the home record, which impacts winning. But again, it is a means to the end.

4) recruiting - obviously a really important factor for item 1, and again is a means to an end. At the end of the day, if we are meeting winning expectations, then I don't care how we get there. BTW I think it is important that we note recruiting started to slip under LB when the sanctions were first rumored and continued the free fall. Our average last year was significantly dragged downwards by Cook.
Year, national rank, conference rank, ave rating
2012, 55, 5, .8524
2013 (LB), 23, 2, .9194
2014 - nothing
2015, 40, 2, .9196
2016, 64, 3, .8758
2017, 61, 3, .8782
2018, 93, 6, .8809
2019, 69, 6, .8661

All of these rankings exclude transfers.

When you look individually at our better players over the past years:
Cunningham: .89
Yannick: .9
Sterling: .93
Moore: .84
Shake: .95
Foster: .86

It would indicate that to compete for championships, you need to recruit at least 5 players at .89 or better and a bench at .86. So your average needs to be up at .88 or so to balance the two. Based on our current roster and rankings, we would have 3 clear starters and two tweeners on a good team, and then a lot of solid bench players.

Current roster:
Davis: .92
Jolly: .88
Band:.87
Mike: N/A
Jasey:.86
Ethan: .88
Hunt: .89
CJ: N/A
Smith: .87
McNeil: .87
McBride: .86
Young: .86
Douglas: .8999

Based on that analysis, the recruiting improved last season, but still isn't where it needs to be to drive true championship contenders. But again, it is a means to an end. Number 1 is what really matters.


Totally misleading as you conveniently excluded our ACC Player of the Year, Semi who we all know was the highest rated of the bunch. Nic Moore got his .84 grade due to his height, but quickly dispelled that during his freshman year prior to transferring to SMU. And Jarrey had his .86 ranking due to injury. He didn’t play his Sr year in HS. It was a flyer but well worth it.
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Re: I’m not asking for much...

Postby redpony » Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:16 pm

Mustangsabu wrote:

So a 20-win team doesn't belong in Division 1 BBall?


Actually no, when you consider that most of his OOC competition could be beaten by top class 5A high school teams. It was so obvious that he and the lapboy made up this schedule to keep him from losing his job.
I was under the impression that last year he had only two years remaining on his contract. Now people seem to think he has two more years. Considering how long he has been HC how many years did his contract have? Normal contracts are for 5 years yet he has already been here that long.
Those who keep referring to his buyout seem to fail to take into account that would be the maximum if he never coached again until his agmt has expired. Good example is HC Dykes. His prior school is paying the part of his contract that is not covered by us but it is far from the total amount of his buyout.
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Re: I’m not asking for much...

Postby JasonB » Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:01 pm

SoCal_Pony wrote:
JasonB wrote:I want to play:

1) Winning - my expectations are that a coach will consistently get SMU to the NCAA tournament and compete for the conference title. This year, because of reasons stated below, my expectations were tempered because of the rebuild to be a top 4 finish and an NIT bid.

2) Scheduling - I would like it to be competitive with big names. But not at the expense or risk of item 1. When the team is good enough to play at a high level, I expect a competitive schedule. While this is related to item 1, it isn't as important at item 1. It is a means to an end.

3) promoting - IMHO, what Dykes and LB have shown is that likeability of the coach is a reall yimportant factor for the SMU community. That is clearly something that should be taken into account when we hire a new coach. But I think item 1 takes precedent. There is a relationship of course - promoting improves attendance, which improves the home record, which impacts winning. But again, it is a means to the end.

4) recruiting - obviously a really important factor for item 1, and again is a means to an end. At the end of the day, if we are meeting winning expectations, then I don't care how we get there. BTW I think it is important that we note recruiting started to slip under LB when the sanctions were first rumored and continued the free fall. Our average last year was significantly dragged downwards by Cook.
Year, national rank, conference rank, ave rating
2012, 55, 5, .8524
2013 (LB), 23, 2, .9194
2014 - nothing
2015, 40, 2, .9196
2016, 64, 3, .8758
2017, 61, 3, .8782
2018, 93, 6, .8809
2019, 69, 6, .8661

All of these rankings exclude transfers.

When you look individually at our better players over the past years:
Cunningham: .89
Yannick: .9
Sterling: .93
Moore: .84
Shake: .95
Foster: .86

It would indicate that to compete for championships, you need to recruit at least 5 players at .89 or better and a bench at .86. So your average needs to be up at .88 or so to balance the two. Based on our current roster and rankings, we would have 3 clear starters and two tweeners on a good team, and then a lot of solid bench players.

Current roster:
Davis: .92
Jolly: .88
Band:.87
Mike: N/A
Jasey:.86
Ethan: .88
Hunt: .89
CJ: N/A
Smith: .87
McNeil: .87
McBride: .86
Young: .86
Douglas: .8999

Based on that analysis, the recruiting improved last season, but still isn't where it needs to be to drive true championship contenders. But again, it is a means to an end. Number 1 is what really matters.


Totally misleading as you conveniently excluded our ACC Player of the Year, Semi who we all know was the highest rated of the bunch. Nic Moore got his .84 grade due to his height, but quickly dispelled that during his freshman year prior to transferring to SMU. And Jarrey had his .86 ranking due to injury. He didn’t play his Sr year in HS. It was a flyer but well worth it.


It isn't misleading. I clearly stated that transfers were not taken into account with the rankings.

Foster, Nic Moore, and Ben Moore (who is actually the Moore listed above) are outliers - lower rated players who performed at a higher level.

Sterling, Yannick, Cunningham were the highly rated first crew and you added Nic, Ben, and Gu to that mix.

The great team had Semi, Sterling, Shake as studs with Moore, Foster, and Gu.

So, really you need 3 or 4 highly regarded recruits (.89 and above) paired with a bunch of solid recruits (.86 - .88) some of which you hope turn out better than advertised.

Our current roster has 3 highly rated recruits, and then a whole bunch of very solid recruits. What hurts is that Douglas was such a miss. So from a recruiting perspective, we are missing one high level talent on the roster. From a pure recruiting standpoint, we aren't at a talent level to compete nationally, but at the same time it isn't accurate to depict the cupboards as being completely bare.

Again, that is all a means to an end. What really matters is the winning piece. If Jank can't get to the NIT this year and NCAA next year, there is no way he is coming back after next year, when his contract is much more affordable to buyout.

You are choosing to look at the team from an "I hate Jank" perspective. I look at the team from an "they are young and up and down" perspective. It makes the games crazy, and it kills the stress level. But it is what it is.

At the end of the day, Jank bet on CJ, Young, Band, McBride, and even Jasey as developmental opportunities, and his future at SMU will hang on that balance. You might predict it is going to fail and be skeptical, but we all have to let it play out first for the rest of this year and into the next.
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