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AAC Swim/Dive Championship

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Re: AAC Swim/Dive Championship

Postby Pony81 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:18 am

It hasn’t always been the case that private colleges were 2 to 3 times more expensive than State U. I went to SMU in the late 70s and my brother went to UT.All in SMU was about $10,000 per semester ... UT was about 7,000 per semester. Austin living expenses were higher than Dallas which closed the gap to SMU being 25% more expensive.
Today SMU tuition is $55K while UT is $11K. All in at UT is around $30K ( I had a son and daughter recently graduate). While SMU is around 70K.
The gap has grown in absolute terms and more importantly people’s incomes haven’t kept pace with education cost inflation.
So SMU’s historic cost disadvantage has grown in absolute and relative terms.

We will never compete in sports where team depth is needed to build point totals for a team. This is one reason why men’s track and field were disbanded.

Hopefully S&D can attract a few stars that bring the university good pub but don’t count on winning many team championships.
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Re: AAC Swim/Dive Championship

Postby mtrout » Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:01 am

Interesting.

Also. Final results. Women 3rd of 6 teams. Men 4th of 4 teams.
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Re: AAC Swim/Dive Championship

Postby ponyswim » Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:56 pm

The cost of school is definitely a factor - more so with the men than with the women - since women have more scholarships.
Just as big a factor is SMU's relative lack of scholarship money for good student. At Southern Cal, as an example, they have much more scholarship money for good students, so that you can have athletes on 50% athletic aid and 50% academic aid. That makes your athletic aid stretch a whole lot.
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Re: AAC Swim/Dive Championship

Postby mtrout » Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:05 pm

Can't they just forget about conference and give all full scholarships to men with the goal of scoring points at nationals? Seems like that would be way more logical (and fun) than worrying about placing better in a 4 team conference where being undermanned makes it nearly impossible to win.
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Re: AAC Swim/Dive Championship

Postby PoconoPony » Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:59 pm

ponyswim wrote:The cost of school is definitely a factor - more so with the men than with the women - since women have more scholarships.
Just as big a factor is SMU's relative lack of scholarship money for good student. At Southern Cal, as an example, they have much more scholarship money for good students, so that you can have athletes on 50% athletic aid and 50% academic aid. That makes your athletic aid stretch a whole lot.


NCAA sets scholarship limits on all sports. Virtually all "minor sports" only give partial aid to any athlete. The ideal athlete is also an elite student eligible for other grants and scholarships to supplement the partial aid a coach might offer. Even this might not be enough to cover a "full" scholarship" rendering the student taking on student loans and/or family assistance. This situation will always impact depth and limit the scope of athletes that can be recruited. As a result, the high tuition private colleges will always be at a tremendous disadvantage in those minor sports that require team depth to win titles. I note that an article last week on home page of a major news network had an article listing the 30 most expensive colleges in the US and SMU was on the list.

SMU swimmers, both male and female, performed very well at the championships this week. The new diving coach in his second years has had a very positive impact. Problem is that neither team is successfully recruiting the elite kids as evidenced by only only several gals and maybe one guy even making NCAA qualification standards ( haven't seen a final count taking into account the AAC championship results). Bottom line is that it is all about recruiting and for a number of years our recruiting has been second tier.
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Re: AAC Swim/Dive Championship

Postby DanFreibergerForHeisman » Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:13 pm

PoconoPony wrote:
ponyswim wrote:The cost of school is definitely a factor - more so with the men than with the women - since women have more scholarships.
Just as big a factor is SMU's relative lack of scholarship money for good student. At Southern Cal, as an example, they have much more scholarship money for good students, so that you can have athletes on 50% athletic aid and 50% academic aid. That makes your athletic aid stretch a whole lot.


NCAA sets scholarship limits on all sports.

Men's soccer finds a way to consistently have over 30 players every season despite only having 9.9 scholarships. Maybe some of the other coaches should have a discussion with Coach Hudson.
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Re: AAC Swim/Dive Championship

Postby mtrout » Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:28 pm

DanFreibergerForHeisman wrote:
PoconoPony wrote:
ponyswim wrote:The cost of school is definitely a factor - more so with the men than with the women - since women have more scholarships.
Just as big a factor is SMU's relative lack of scholarship money for good student. At Southern Cal, as an example, they have much more scholarship money for good students, so that you can have athletes on 50% athletic aid and 50% academic aid. That makes your athletic aid stretch a whole lot.


NCAA sets scholarship limits on all sports.

Men's soccer finds a way to consistently have over 30 players every season despite only having 9.9 scholarships. Maybe some of the other coaches should have a discussion with Coach Hudson.

Can any of them suit up for some 5-on-5 men's basketball practice?
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Re: AAC Swim/Dive Championship

Postby Water Pony » Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:54 pm

I appreciate the attention to this issue.

Swimming & Diving has a tremendous legacy at SMU. Despite the wonderful new Aquatic Center, it appears we may be perpetually undermanned, due to our lack of a P5 Conference affiliation and revenue needed to excel at the highest levels.

If so, the athletes, both men and women, who swim and dive for us, deserved our support and appreciation, e.g. essentially walk-on's. Their colleges days will be rewarding and their membership in Mustangs Swimmers & Divers (Mu Sigma Delta) will be valued long after they graduate.

I wish there was an easy solution to recruiting, which is the primary path to winning conference titles, sending large teams to Nationals and recording national times. Many of us are vested in this program and I do want to salute the current and past Mustangs, who bleed Red (Barr) & Blue!
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Re: AAC Swim/Dive Championship

Postby PoconoPony » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:36 pm

DanFreibergerForHeisman wrote:
PoconoPony wrote:
ponyswim wrote:The cost of school is definitely a factor - more so with the men than with the women - since women have more scholarships.
Just as big a factor is SMU's relative lack of scholarship money for good student. At Southern Cal, as an example, they have much more scholarship money for good students, so that you can have athletes on 50% athletic aid and 50% academic aid. That makes your athletic aid stretch a whole lot.


NCAA sets scholarship limits on all sports.

Men's soccer finds a way to consistently have over 30 players every season despite only having 9.9 scholarships. Maybe some of the other coaches should have a discussion with Coach Hudson.



Soccer does not play 30 players per game; maybe 14. Yes, soccer needs depth to scrimmage and cover for injuries; however, I recall somewhat recent postings by SoccerMom indicating that her daughter was a soccer starter and top student who received less than the equivalent of a half scholarship. Never-the-less, the remaining cost of her attending SMU far exceeded attending a state university.

In swimming you have 16 point scoring finishes for each event ( 8 scoring positions in the finals; 8 in the consolations). These 16 are the kids who survived the preliminaries which washes out 2/3 of the competition. SMU had roughly an average of 3 swimmer advancing for each event leaving open 13 scoring positions where the depth of the other teams piled up points. SMU's top kid in each event was very representative; however, the lack of depth thereafter was quite evident. Even in diving where SMU put kids at the top of the podium the other teams each had 4 or 5 kids stacked right in behind far out pointing a single top finisher. All teams need depth, but swimming and track require considerable depth for overall team wins.
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Re: AAC Swim/Dive Championship

Postby ponyswim » Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:46 am

What is still truth: high school swimmers in the US or internationally who want to be "elite" athletes in college, want to go to schools where there is a recent history of either great improvement by individuals or other proof to them that the coaches will prepare them to be elite athletes. Until they believe that, they will not come to SMU - and I don't blame them.
SMU has a long recent history of elite athletes in women's swimming - though not as much now. SMU has little of that recent history on the mens side of things. Whatever the reasons - something needs to change for SMU to get back on an "elite" path, either internally or with a new coaching staff.
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Re: AAC Swim/Dive Championship

Postby Pony81 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:33 am

Probably need to go get a new coaching staff from a school with a reputation of developing elite swimmers. Look at the recruits Coach Chen is getting in tennis. It's only a matter of time before we match an elite coach with an elite facility .
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Re: AAC Swim/Dive Championship

Postby PoconoPony » Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:31 am

ponyswim wrote:What is still truth: high school swimmers in the US or internationally who want to be "elite" athletes in college, want to go to schools where there is a recent history of either great improvement by individuals or other proof to them that the coaches will prepare them to be elite athletes. Until they believe that, they will not come to SMU - and I don't blame them.
SMU has a long recent history of elite athletes in women's swimming - though not as much now. SMU has little of that recent history on the mens side of things. Whatever the reasons - something needs to change for SMU to get back on an "elite" path, either internally or with a new coaching staff.


Our swim coaches are excellent training coaches; however, recruiting is not their strong point. Best case scenario is to have a great recruiting assistant coach bringing in the talent and/or encouraging the current staff to move over and bring in new head coaches.
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Re: AAC Swim/Dive Championship

Postby Water Pony » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:46 am

To add to PoconoPony's comments, we need greater energy applied to the two program by the coaches. This includes recruiting, out reach to former swimmers & divers and greater national exposure for both the men's and women's teams.

Thanks to the many friends of SMU Swimming & Diving, we invested more than $26m for a beautiful facility, which had been needed for 20-30 years. This delay resulted in losing much of our national reputation and competitiveness, Top 10-20 level.

At the opening, I was thrilled by the new natatorium and aquatic center. Watching the team's pride in their new facilities was terrific. I will continue to support both programs, but have come to accept we will be more modest in our expectations unless we re-energize it. Hart will need to determine what moves are needed, but we do need to be more demanding from this point forward.

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Re: AAC Swim/Dive Championship

Postby PoconoPony » Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:31 pm

Water Pony wrote:To add to PoconoPony's comments, we need greater energy applied to the two program by the coaches. This includes recruiting, out reach to former swimmers & divers and greater national exposure for both the men's and women's teams.

Thanks to the many friends of SMU Swimming & Diving, we invested more than $26m for a beautiful facility, which had been needed for 20-30 years. This delay resulted in losing much of our national reputation and competitiveness, Top 10-20 level.

At the opening, I was thrilled by the new natatorium and aquatic center. Watching the team's pride in their new facilities was terrific. I will continue to support both programs, but have come to accept we will be more modest in our expectations unless we re-energize it. Hart will need to determine what moves are needed, but we do need to be more demanding from this point forward.

Pony Up!


I am not sure whether Hart has the ability or fortitude to make decisive changes. He is a very reluctant decision maker allowing situations to totally deteriorate and crash before acting. He has made some quality coaching changes but only after those situation have resolved themselves with retirements and/or NCAA sanctions involved. Extending a totally dead beat JJ for 2 year and the current situation with Jank clearly demonstrates his inability to make necessary changes to coaches or staffs and hold them accountable for expected performance.
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Re: AAC Swim/Dive Championship

Postby ponyswim » Tue May 28, 2019 8:10 pm

Eddie Sinnot retires!!
New direction for SMU swimming.
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