TCU and UNT to open Med School

[Pony^]

IDK there is a shortage of grad students working in UTSW research labs and half empty lecture halls because most UTSW lectures are podcasted online...seems to me it would take much less than $25M in donations to negotiate some guarantee some sort of collaboration program...see what Rice has with Baylor School of Medicine. Rice doesn't have a medical hospital facility but still offers a medical degree plan.

https://futureowls.rice.edu/futureowls/ ... or_FAQ.asp

I just want to point out that Baylor also has a joint program with Baylor Medical School. http://www.baylor.edu/prehealth/index.php?id=36430%3E

Both the Rice program and the Baylor program are limited to six students per year; therefore, not such a big deal. These programs are certainly not a replacement for a medical school. I guess the programs generate applications to both undergraduate schools; however, most students who apply will not be selected. Perhaps SMU could start a similar program with UTSW, if the schools are so inclined.

[Pony^]

More details on TCU/UNTHSC venture:

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/fort-worth/article26585644.html

http://northdallasgazette.com/2015/07/06/tcu-and-unt-partner-to-create-a-new-medical-school-by-2018/

http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/2015/07/tcu-unt-announce-partnership-to-open-new-md-school-to-train-physicians.html/

[rodrod5]

TCU is doing this because they can get a MD degree that says strictly "TCU" on it in a few years from 2018 when they are looking to first take students

over time IF (and it is a big IF) north Texas state gets approval to offer a MD degree and TCU feels pushed out well by then there is no way TCU supporters will let them lose a MD program after starting one

[Pony^]

TCU is doing this because they can get a MD degree that says strictly "TCU" on it in a few years from 2018 when they are looking to first take students

over time IF (and it is a big IF) north Texas state gets approval to offer a MD degree and TCU feels pushed out well by then there is no way TCU supporters will let them lose a MD program after starting one

Why doesn't TCU just start up its own MD program without UNT? Does UNT really bring that much to the table?

[rodrod5]

TCU is doing this because they can get a MD degree that says strictly "TCU" on it in a few years from 2018 when they are looking to first take students

over time IF (and it is a big IF) north Texas state gets approval to offer a MD degree and TCU feels pushed out well by then there is no way TCU supporters will let them lose a MD program after starting one

Why doesn't TCU just start up its own MD program without UNT? Does UNT really bring that much to the table?

takes longer, cost more, possibility that it does not get rolling or starts slowly

what north Texas state brings to the table is the desire to cut into the space for their DO program to produce MDs instead of DOs and the building and faculty already in place

but north Texas state HSC is legislatively prohibited from offering a MD degree so they need TCU at least until they can possibly get the laws changed in 2 years or longer from now

[Pony^]

TCU is doing this because they can get a MD degree that says strictly "TCU" on it in a few years from 2018 when they are looking to first take students

over time IF (and it is a big IF) north Texas state gets approval to offer a MD degree and TCU feels pushed out well by then there is no way TCU supporters will let them lose a MD program after starting one

Why doesn't TCU just start up its own MD program without UNT? Does UNT really bring that much to the table?

takes longer, cost more, possibility that it does not get rolling or starts slowly

what north Texas state brings to the table is the desire to cut into the space for their DO program to produce MDs instead of DOs and the building and faculty already in place

but north Texas state HSC is legislatively prohibited from offering a MD degree so they need TCU at least until they can possibly get the laws changed in 2 years or longer from now

So they are going to use DO faculty for the MD program? I get that they will be using some of both schools science faculty, but I though that was only for the early science classes.

Does TCU think the association with UNT could eventually lead to state subsidies similar to what Baylor College of Medicine receives?

[rodrod5]

So they are going to use DO faculty for the MD program? I get that they will be using some of both schools science faculty, but I though that was only for the early science classes.

Does TCU think the association with UNT could eventually lead to state subsidies similar to what Baylor College of Medicine receives?

yes they are looking at using DO faculty for the MD

as for the TCU subsidy probably not if the programs stay combined

if it gets to a point where TCU breaks away, takes the full MD enrollment numbers with them and north Texas state does not offer a MD and does not increase the DO enrollment then who knows

the Baylor deal is pretty old from a long time ago who knows if Texas would buy residency slots if TCU went on their own

I am speculating that TCU will go on their own, but I think it will happen eventually for a number of reasons

[Pony^]

yes they are looking at using DO faculty for the MD

Sort of funny because DMN states that:

Osteopathic physicians and TCOM alumni have opposed opening an MD school at UNTHSC, saying it undermines the prominent program already operating.

[rodrod5]

yes they are looking at using DO faculty for the MD

Sort of funny because DMN states that:

Osteopathic physicians and TCOM alumni have opposed opening an MD school at UNTHSC, saying it undermines the prominent program already operating.

that has been well publicized since they started trying to get a MD degree program and also there are articles talking about how north Texas state is severely low balling the cost of all of this even using the DO faculty because can't just cram more students in there and the MD will have administrative cost as well

these are part of the issues that I think will break this up over time and TCU will go on their own

[tristatecoog]

Why doesn't TCU create its own MD program in Ft Worth instead of tagging onto UNT's HSC program in Denton?

I hadn't heard of a D.O. (osteopathic) before. I figured it was a doctor of optometry.

If you have never heard of a DO before, you must be living in a very isolated society.

I've seen it on some doctors' titles but didn't know what it was. Figured it was some lesser certification than MD or more of a specialty. I don't go to the doctor much and my kids go to an MD across from Presby Dallas. There are all sorts these days, like nurse practitioners, etc. It almost seems like a special treat to get to see an actual doctor when you have an ER visit.

Speaking of nurses, I see that TWU's nursing school is ranked #48 and TCU's is #66. http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-nursing-schools/nur-rankings/page+3

The key for nursing school is to get higher paying specialties or get into administration? Some east TX folks I know just go the community college route and then get an RN. I wonder what more they'd get by going to a four year university or getting a master's degree.

[rodrod5]

http://www.gomeangreen.com/forums/topic ... aying-why/

this is what you are getting in bed with TCU

if Texas Southern was a system it would be the worst run system in Texas, but unfortunately for north Texas state Texas Southern is just a single university thus north Texas state is by far the worst run system in Texas and their Denton campus is probably just behind their dallas campus in being poorly run and their dallas campus is just behind Texas Southern as a poorly run university

[Pony^]

http://www.gomeangreen.com/forums/topic/104716-unt-dallas-could-get-a-new-president-soon-but-no-one%E2%80%99s-saying-why/

this is what you are getting in bed with TCU

if Texas Southern was a system it would be the worst run system in Texas, but unfortunately for north Texas state Texas Southern is just a single university thus north Texas state is by far the worst run system in Texas and their Denton campus is probably just behind their dallas campus in being poorly run and their dallas campus is just behind Texas Southern as a poorly run university

Updated at 7:27 p.m.: Chancellor Lee Jackson praised Brown. Here’s what Jackson said this evening:

“Dr. Ron Brown has helped UNTD, the youngest university in the UNT System, address the challenges he inherited two years ago on that growing campus. He has strengthened the academic programs at UNTD and may now be tapped for a higher position in the UNT System to take advantage of his experience in health and allied health education. If there is a decision on such a promotion or assignment to a senior system administrative position, then our board will consider its options later this week to maintain continuity and progress at UNT Dallas.”

http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/2015 ... tion.html/

[StallionsModelT]

With so many cheaper and better alternatives around DFW I don't have a clue why anyone would want to go to UNT. UT-Dallas, UT-Arlington, University of Dallas, Collin College, etc. are all better institutions than UNT. Honestly A&M-Commerce is a better school.

[DFW2012]

A partnership is certainly interesting. From UNTHSC's perspective, they can't do this without TCU as they're barred by statute from conferring M.D. degrees. The UNT System really doesn't wield that much influence in the many deep Fort Worth charity pockets. The Tech, UNT and UH systems are competing against each other right now to be the 3rd/4th "research" university systems in the state. UNT has been very aggressive--expanding the Health Science Center and opening the UNT Dallas law school. An MD program would be a crown jewel few UNTHSC, which has a DO school, pharmacy school, public health school, biomedical research program, PA program, and nursing program. A partnership with a top 75-100 university will boost UNT's academic cred, too.

For TCU, they're looking to compete head-to-head rankings-wise with Baylor first, then SMU. They really aren't very far behind at #76--especially considering how limited their graduate programs are. Truth is, TCU has a lot of academic momentum right now--rising from just under 100 in US News to 76 in the past 5 years. Athletics popularity has spiked their application numbers, allowed them to be far more selective, and as a result their GPA/test score metrics have gone up. Donor giving is through the roof. And their rise in national athletics has helped boost their "peer rating" because people now know they exist. Their academics are catching up, too---probably on par or better than Baylor in all programs and closing in on SMU in many (there are some big exceptions--most notably engineering). TCU walked away from buying Wesleyan about 15 years ago (wisely, really, considering the legal market and the fact they'd never compete with SMU or even Baylor in the cut-throat law school rankings world). A med school would provide a much bigger boost in research dollars and prestige than a low-tier law school.

TCU has said they could go-it-alone with their fundraising abilities, but the partnership with UNTHSC provides the following:
- Near immediate launch within the UNTHSC infrastructure
- Shared faculty with UNTHSC programs (DO, public health, biomed, PA, pharmacy, etc) (UNTHSC is about 2-3 miles from TCU)
- No immediate need for new facilities ($10 M in repurposing vs. $100 M in new facilities)
- Shared overhead --- only 60 students in year 1, this will keep costs way down
- Leverage existing UNTHSC hospital partnerships with John Peter Smith (JPS) etc.
- Access to private (TCU donor network) and public (State) funding

Short term it benefits both: UNTHSC can leverage the MD program and TCU's reputation to recruit faculty and researchers to their other programs and "share" them with the MD program. TCU gets an MD program with a fraction of the startup costs and time it would take on their own. And a the entity conferring the degrees and the ones with the much deeper pockets, once it's up and running, TCU will have all the leverage by 2022-2025ish. If UNT bungles their end, TCU can just buy them out, and TCU could angle to take over more of UNTHSC (like the pharmacy, public health, biomed, and/or PA schools).

Really win-win for both. And a possible threat to SMU's academic dominance in 10-15 years (though I think froggy will have to make enormous strides in their current engineering programs, expand those programs, and start undergrad programs for that to happen).

Should be interesting to watch. Contrasts interestingly with the UT System starting 2 essentially from scratch.

[DFW2012]

With so many cheaper and better alternatives around DFW I don't have a clue why anyone would want to go to UNT. UT-Dallas, UT-Arlington, University of Dallas, Collin College, etc. are all better institutions than UNT. Honestly A&M-Commerce is a better school.

SMU, TCU, UTD, UD, and DBU are definitely superior to UNT. UTA is academically better than UNT, but UNT is a little less commuter-esque.

On the topic, academically and administratively, it's worth noting UNTHSC is a separate entity from UNT (as is UNT-Dallas)---in the same way UTHSC-San Antonio and UTMB-Galveston aren't part of UT-Austin. UNTHSC is located in Fort Worth a couple miles from TCU and has the D.O. school, PA school, public health, nursing, biomedical science, and pharmacy schools. The folks running the clown show at UNTHSC have, by and large, shown a lot more competence than the System Board and the folks in Denton and Dallas.