Marshall vs. HP Division II 4A State Championship

[Dukie]

Well, I don't want to quibble over Ford/Kyle/Rice. My real point was about Tyler Rose. I know Rice is a dump, but it's got some cool history, and I'm a sucker for that.

Mr. Mustang, your hunch is correct. The schools are losing MAJOR $$ because of this. Multiply 14,000 x $8 versus the 25,000 or so, probably more, they'd have gotten in any other stadium in Texas that might have been considered.

smupony94, unless the schools have met in the playoffs in the prior two years, they can try to agree on a neutral site, or they can each designate a "home" stadium and flip for it. OC Mustang is just blowing smoke with all the "Marshall would have loved to play at Texas Stadium, or Ford, or Baylor" hookey. The only true thing he said is that Marshall wants the win. After the HP game and before Marshall-Connally, the HP radio announcers broadcast that both Marshall *and* Connally had already told HP they would not agree to neutral; that they would insist on a home-or-home flip; and that Marshall designated Tyler Rose and Connally designated Floyd Casey (whoops, OC Mustang; that sorta undercuts the "Baylor wasn't available" spin--though you did say it wasn't available at the desired time, which I guess means Marshall would have played there at, oh, 1 p.m., but not a whisker earlier or later, lol).

The funny thing is, I think the choice of Tyler is going to bite Marshall in the patookie. It gives the HP coaches an additional motivator: "those guys made you play out here in a tiny stadium where only about a third of your fans could come to the game, so go kick their butt." And it's not even a home-advantage stadium, seeing as it's built to host both Lee and John Tyler and both sides are the same size.

By the way, HP sold out its 5500 ticket allotment tonight. Ticket sales were announced to begin tomorrow morning at 8:30, but the hard-core folks know that they sell playoff tickets at HP Sports Club meetings on Monday nights. More than 500 people showed up, without an announcement, and bought them out. It'll be a hard-core crowd and should be a great game.

[smupony94]

Thanks Dukie, I went to a small school called Westlake. We had a nice run in football. I just never knew the rules regarding playoff locations.

[MrMustang1965]

By the way, HP sold out its 5500 ticket allotment tonight. Ticket sales were announced to begin tomorrow morning at 8:30, but the hard-core folks know that they sell playoff tickets at HP Sports Club meetings on Monday nights. More than 500 people showed up, without an announcement, and bought them out. It'll be a hard-core crowd and should be a great game.

The tickets that were purchased tonight must be redeemed between noon and 1 p.m. on Saturday for a ticket at Rose Stadium. Does the same apply for Marshall? If so, it's going to be a riot at Rose Stadium on Saturday to redeem over 10,000 tickets and get into the stadium in that short amount of time. Some folks probably won't get into the stadium until halftime...or later.

Also, 1500 tickets have been set aside for students. But...those tickets won't be distributed until 3rd period Tuesday at a site on the campus that will not be disclosed to the student body until 2nd period. And to obtain a ticket, the student must have their student ID.

Some parents were calling band & drill team parents Monday night begging to use their child's ID to get that ticket in addition to their own since the band & drill team will automatically get into the game. That sounds like fraud. Also, the band & drill team members will be seated on the track at Rose Stadium in folding chairs. They won't be able to see much of the game. Maybe they'll be able to 'pull a Stanford' at the end of the game for an HP win!

There will be 3,000 tickets sold at Rose Stadium beginning at 8 a.m. Saturday. First come, first served.

[OC Mustang]

Dukie,

When I said people over here would have wanted to play anywhere near Dallas, I really meant the fans and players. It's fun to come to Dallas around Christmas...Shopping and that whole thing...we country folk don't get to the city very much. To be honest, though, the same head-scratching went on last week when for whatever reason Southern picked Burleson as the site for Marshall vs. Connally. Never heard why, because that was more random than Rose is for this game.

I agree with you that it was nominally strategic. Frankly, I betcha Marshall matches HP's fan numbers and then some, especially at Rose.
It's wisdom may be questionable, but I don't agree with you (go figure) that Marshall is at some emotional disadvantage over the site. HP wants to win b/c it wants to win. I highly doubt given the drought since '57 that a site matters. Notwithstanding homefield advantage and/or gate receipts, the big venue thing is vanity, and complaints about Marshall's unwillingness to give up something to HP or anybody else when the coin had a 50-50 chance of coming up different is hubris. Neither vanity or hubris wins games (sorry, I know I sound self-righteous...just a little torqued up is all...no malice aforethought).

And as for HPs announcers, all I heard was HP's coach slip up and predict Marshall the winner of that semifinal match before he gracefully caught himself and said he was travelling down to Burleson to do the coin-flip with whoever the winner might be. As for Waco and it's availability for game, I know for a fact where I will be Saturday, and at what time. 2pm, Casey Stadium is reserved by the United States Army for a brigade muster on behalf of families for soldiers (my brother-in-law among them) returning after a hard year outside Falluja, Republic of Iraq. That takes about three hours or so, according to my father-in-law. So whoever thought they might kickoff at Casey on Saturday, at least during the day, was mistaken. If somebody is double-scheduled, then I'd like to know...it might mean I can make the game at Rose.

I do wish HP much success. I lived in Preston Hollow and UP for nearly 5 years after SMU before moving to Orange County CA (sort of HP on steroids, and with a tan). I always followed them from out there. So I am kind of tickled that they are playing and sad that I will miss it. But if anybody thinks for one minute that Marshall is going to lose any sleep over the Scots getting their kilts in a wad over venue, uh, get over it and let's see some good ball.

BTW, if Marshall's band plays the tune from Deliverance, ya'll might ought to get your kilts a little tighter 'round the waist. You never know what country folk will do in a pinch.

[RGV Pony]

Marshall could've picked the Independence Bowl and it would have been a little closer than Tyler. Sure, the Independence Bowl stadium is in Lousiana, but UIL holds playoffs out of state more often than one might think. Often in west Texas, when an El Paso school plays a school around Lubbock or Amarillo, they've played somewhere in between in New Mexico. Admittedly, that's usually bball playoffs.

Either way, it would have been an intriguing story line...Texas state championship decided in Louisiana.

[OC Mustang]

Alright, I spoke too soon about hubris and vanity. My apologies.
Our people are grumbling a little as well. We think that Marshall can put up between 9k and 11k for the game, maybe more.

Our tickets go on sale tomorrow. Big lines. Big pain.

But we'll live. And as for the hubbub with the DMN, well, they have a point, but they can pound sand. We are more concerned that the weather will delay sales. Supposed to get nasty tomorrow.

Be safe everybody.

And I think Independence Bowl would have been perfect. Didn't know Texas could go to Louisiana for championship game.

[Dukie]

MrMustang, that's sad. And your post about needing to redeem vouchers only in the last 2 hours before kickoff is downright frightening. It'll be a zoo.

OCMustang, HP players and fans were already especially fired up after dispatching Stephenville and ending the 0-8-1 semifinal streak. Marshall's coach has now ensured that they'll have extra motivation, so, thanks!

By the way, you've told us more than once that you'll be welcoming troops at Floyd Casey on Saturday. Congratulations to you! By the way, high-school football games also take about three hours. So by your logic, Texas Stadium would only be available for a single playoff game per day.

By the way, what would have been wrong with Kyle? It's not directly between Marshall and Dallas but it *is* roughly equidistant.

[MrMustang1965]

Here is the reply from the UIL about the stadium venue situation for the HP v Marshall game:

Thank you for your correspondence concerning UIL playoffs.

The two schools involved in the contest determine sites for post district playoff games in football, including state championship games.

UIL does not select and has no input on sites for playoff or state championship games for football. Any concerns on the venue for such games should be directed to the respective school administration of the schools involved in the game.

The UIL does not have the authority to move this game, as this is done as an agreement between the two schools. Several years ago an outside group submitted a proposal to UIL to have a central championship site. The Texas High School Coaches Association along with other groups overwhelmingly opposed this proposal. Therefore the UIL Legislative Council has not had any interest in passing this without more significant approval.

This week the state 5A championship game will also be played in a high school facility with television coverage and the 4A will be the same, but with no television. UIL suggested the 4A schools play at the same site as the 5A so that at least it could be televised, but the schools chose to flip for sites.

If you have other questions or need additional information, please contact me.

Sincerely,

Mark Cousins
Athletic Coordinator
University Interscholastic League
512-471-5883
www.uil.utexas.edu

[MrMustang1965]

from the Dallas Morning News:

By KRISTEN HOLLAND and MATT JACOB / The Dallas Morning News



Hundreds of Highland Park supporters were turned away early Tuesday at the Highlander Stadium ticket office when word came that the school's allotment of 5,500 tickets to the Class 4A state title game were already gone.

"I don't really think it was very fair, because we were all told they'd go on sale at 8:30" Tuesday, said Glenn Tucker, a 1983 Highland Park graduate. "No one ever said they'd be available on Monday night. It just doesn’t seem like everyone got a fair shot at getting them."

Girls athletic coordinator Jerry Sutterfield said it has been a long-standing practice that tickets to away football games are sold at the Highland Park Sports Club meetings at 7 p.m. Mondays. Usually, no limit is placed on the number of tickets patrons can buy. But Sutterfield said the department instituted a 10-ticket limit per person so as to give as many fans as possible an opportunity for tickets.

Some 4,700 tickets were sold Monday night and another 800 were held back for sale to students Tuesday.

"We didn't think we would sell out," Sutterfield said. "We hate that not everyone can go, but (the sellout) is a nice problem to have because we're still playing for the state championship."

The problem is that the Scots will face Marshall in the Class 4A Division I state championship at Trinity Mother Frances Rose Stadium, a Tyler facility that seats only 12,000. Last Saturday, Highland Park brought more than 11,000 fans to the regional final.

In the University Interscholastic League football playoffs, the opposing coaches decide where the contest will be played. The Marshall and Highland Park coaches couldn't agree on a neutral site, and then Highland Park lost the coin flip.

Sports Club president Lynn Newman said players’ parents were invited to purchase tickets beginning at 5 p.m. Monday. From that point, others quickly congregated until the entire allotment was gone by 7:30 p.m.

“People got in line and saw lots of their friends there,” Newman said. “And in this day of cellphones, they called their wives and friends and neighbors and said they needed to get up there if they wanted a ticket.”

District spokeswoman Helen Williams said the small size of Tyler's Rose Stadium, the small allotment of available tickets and the fact that Highland Park hasn't played for a state title since 1957 contributed to the quick sellout.

"It's unfortunate because we want everyone who wants a ticket to have one," Williams said. "But we're doing all we can to see that our fans can watch the game live."

In a letter sent to parents, district officials explained the "overwhelming" interest that resulted in the purchase of all available adult tickets.

The letter said parents could drive to Tyler and buy standing room-only tickets at the stadium beginning at 1 p.m. Saturday. Stadium officials also told the school district that ticket holders must be in their seats by 1 p.m. to guarantee a spot.

Williams said pleas have been made to the UIL to find an alternative stadium location. If those are unsuccessful, then she left open the possibility of finding a way to have a live simulcast of the game.

Newman said changing the venue for Saturday’s game wouldn’t be unprecedented.

He said that in 1945, Highland Park and Waco were originally scheduled to play their title game at SMU’s Ownby Stadium. But when the game sold out so quickly, officials moved it to the Cotton Bowl - where Newman said 45,000 watched a game that ended in a 7-7 tie.

"There was absolutely no difference in the way this was handled than how it’s been handled in the past," Newman said. "It's just a fact that this away game is a little bigger than most of them."

Despite efforts to appease them, fans said they were disappointed by the shortage and the way the tickets were distributed.

"My understanding was that they were going to be on sale this morning," said Wayne Richardson, a Park Cities resident who was trying to buy extra tickets for a friend whose son plays on the team.

Jerry Coen, a 1957 graduate, played on the 1956 football team that made it to the state semifinals. He said he planned to go to Tyler to try to get a seat.

"Forty-eight years ago I got to see my friend, Jack Collins, and all of them win the state championship in Port Arthur," he said. "Since I'm just one person, I might have a better chance at getting a ticket. I'd hate to wait another 48 years."

Already, one entrepreneur was making a pair of tickets available for $500 on craigslist.org. The seller's lure to would-be buyers: "Don't miss out on Highland Park history."

At the high school on Tuesday morning, some 800 tickets went on sale after second period to the approximately 2,000 students. Although assistant principal Ken Fox warned on the loudspeaker that any student who exhibited "untoward" behavior would be pulled from the lines, there still was plenty of shoving at the two sales locations.

"It's so hot in there," said freshman Caroline Taylor as she emerged from the fine arts box office with her ticket. "Everybody's pushing."

Senior Meredith Mendenhall was first in line at the fine arts box office. She acknowledged that she got the edge because her class got out a little early.

"I am so excited. This is amazing. I can't wait," she said.

Students were going to be allowed to remain in line until all tickets were sold. They could buy only one for themselves. Football players and members of the band and drill team were excluded.

Tori Mannes, a second-generation Scot who graduated in 1978, said she spent nearly two hours in line Monday night trying to get a ticket, but was near the front when they sold out. She was hoping her daughter would get one Tuesday.

"We have a lot of dreams riding with this team," she said. "It's not just this year's class that's so fabulous. It's many, many years."

[OC Mustang]

Dukie,

Just to clear the air a little. Yeah, I guess I repeated myself on the Casey stadium deal. Just thought your earlier comment about my "spinning" the venue issue was factually in error re: the availability of Casey for Saturday. I figured in the great tradition of fan forum overkill, I'd set the record straight by mentioning it again...and again...and now again.

I guess I deserve a little razzing since I piped up first about rooting for Marshall. I will take in the same humor as I dish it.

You all can build all the motivation you want. If HP pulls it off, well, I will take my lumps and put myself out on the board for the obligatory cyber-flogging.

If Marshall takes it, which I feel strongly that they will, I will also be available to offer the customary gloating.

Looking forward to that....

[OC Mustang]

Dukie,
(geez, this is getting old)
Helps when I actually read the whole post. I see your point on the availability thing. I guess it would also help if I thought that through...hmm...naw, Texas Stadium was never in the cards unless HP won the coin flip (coin flips are a bummer sometimes).
And with hotels full in Waco for that same event, I question the wisdom of Marshall volunteering for yet another trip back here at 2am. Being forced to do it is one thing. Volunteering is another.
So I am back to the original question.

But your suggestion of Kyle is a good one. Would have been much better venue. So would Reliant.

I am going to go out on a limb and say that I bet Southern didn't realize the numbers HP was bringing to the games. He figured everybody could squeeze into Rose. If Danny Long, the TISD AD is correct, there is enough additional room to house another 5k people, I believe. That will help a little. The issue will be tickets prior to the game.

Ya'll take your time getting there. More room for Marshall fans.

[Dukie]

OC, we're cool, and I know I jibed you pretty good. I'm mad about the location, and it's not an anti-East Texas or anti-travel thing. I'd rather drive to Shreveport and play in the Independence Bowl.

Somebody on a Texas prep board says the SRO tickets (which really mean you sit on a blanket on the grassy part of the bowl, which is laid out very much like Ford) can push capacity to 20K, so that should be fine *if* the HP people understand that and are willing to drive out to Tyler without tickets. So far the communication on that front has not been good, but we'll see.

BTW, I don't know if this is true, but I heard that Randy Allen actually rejected Kyle because he didn't want a natural-grass field.

Let's hope for an injury-free, fun game.

[OC Mustang]

Agree with you profoundly about injury-free, hard fought, heckuva game.
Add one more thing...decent weather (looking a little icy tomorrow & Thursday around here...went from a ridiculous 89 degrees to freezing rain and snow in a week...and to think I traded Laguna Beach and the Rose Bowl for this?????).

Would add one more...please let Marshall's stud linebackers, HP's QB and a couple of (as Bus would say) "Big Men" from either team decide that SMU is the place that they really want to be in a lasting moment of epiphany on the field as they catch a glimpse of Coach Phil and Jerry Bennett wearing a very prominent SMU hat on their heads.

[PonySoprano]

Just Announced: the game will be televised on Ch. 27

[MrMustang1965]

Just Announced: the game will be televised on Ch. 27

WOO-HOO! Here's the official news release from www.hpisd.org.

The Fighting Scots’ championship game will be televised live on KDFI-Channel 27 at 3 p.m. Saturday, Dec. 10. The game will also be broadcast on KETK-FOX 51, which airs in the Tyler, Longview and Marshall market.

A generous gift from Wachovia made the broadcast possible.

In addition, fans will be able to view the game online by visiting www.hpisd.org

“This is so exciting for our team, our schools and our community,” said HPISD Superintendent Dr. Cathy Bryce. “We just could not be more thrilled! We are eternally grateful to Wachovia for stepping up to the plate and making this happen. This is the culmination of a great team effort on the part of staff, parents, community members, and business partners.”

The Scots (14-0) will play Marshall (13-1) in the Class 4A Division I State Championship. The kickoff time was moved to 3 p.m. Saturday in order to accommodate the broadcast schedule.

“We are very pleased that we could help make this broadcast possible,” said Pete Jones, president of Wachovia’s Dallas/Fort Worth region. “It was gratifying how quickly and smoothly everything came together. I am very excited knowing that more people will now be able to watch the Scots play Marshall for the state championship this weekend.”

The news about the broadcast is especially welcome among Scots fans because of the limited seating at Rose Stadium in Tyler, where the game will be played. Rose Stadium can accommodate 14,000 fans, including the standing-room-only space on the hill.

For those fans who want the crowd experience without the drive, the game will be shown live at the Highland Park High School cafeteria.

“We’ll be selling hot dogs and other concessions, creating the ball game feel in the cafeteria,” said HPISD Communications Director Helen Williams. “It will be a great venue for our community members to cheer on the Scots together under one big roof.”

KDFI-Channel 27 is a Dallas-based independent programming channel owned by FOX.