SMU Pledge Forced to Drink Gallons of H20 Gets Day in Court
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by SMU Football Blog » Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:34 pm
Don't forget humming the "Battle Hymn of the Republic" as they are leaving.
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SMU Football Blog 
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by MrMustang1965 » Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:58 pm
By ROBERT THARP / The Dallas Morning News
The "water night" ritual at a fraternity member's northeast Dallas apartment began with orders to guzzle salsa and hot sauce.
Then, Braylon Curry testified Wednesday, he and other pledges to Southern Methodist University's Alpha Phi Alpha chapter were peppered with fraternity trivia questions and forced to perform dances and sing fraternity songs. Mistakes were rewarded with demands by fraternity brothers to guzzle water, he said.
Mr. Curry said he drank 3 to 5 gallons of water that evening in 2003. He collapsed, had seizures and spent 10 days in the hospital as a result of the near-death experience.
Raymond Lee, 26, is on trial for aggravated assault in the case and faces to to 20 years in prison if convicted. Prosecutors say Mr. Lee, who had already graduated from college at the time of the incident, was the ringleader in the hazing.
"He was pushing the jug up to my mouth and slapping me on my arms and torso – it was pretty forceful," Mr. Curry testified Wednesday during Mr. Lee's trial.
"He did most of the hitting," prosecutor Josh Healy said during opening statements. "He was the most aggressive, and he forced most of the water down Braylon's throat."
Mr. Curry, now 23 and enrolled at Howard University, said he still suffers from memory loss and concentration problems as a result of the hazing.
After he collapsed, fraternity members began frantic Internet research on the effects of "over hydration," Mr. Healy said. They didn't call for an ambulance until Mr. Curry began having seizures, he said.
Attorneys for Mr. Lee suggested that Mr. Curry and other pledges voluntarily subjected themselves to the initiation ritual because the fraternity had an alternative method of acceptance that only involved a written application.
Attorney Ray Jackson also said that Mr. Curry was not under duress and could have stopped drinking the water at any time.
But Mr. Curry testified that fraternity members who did not go through the rituals were treated with ridicule. He said he drank the water because Mr. Lee forced the jug to his mouth.
"I got to the point that I was incoherent and had trouble standing," he said.
Four students were expelled after the incident, and Alpha Phi Alpha was banned from SMU's campus.
Prosecutors said in court that it wasn't the first time Mr. Lee had been accused of going too far with fraternity pledges.
As a University of Texas at Dallas student in 2001, Mr. Lee was accused of hazing and suspended from Alpha Phi Alpha. For punishment, he was ordered to perform community service and write a paper on the dangers of hazing.
"Hazing is an act of power and control over others," he wrote at the time. "It's victimization."
Testimony in Mr. Lee's trial is to resume today.
The "water night" ritual at a fraternity member's northeast Dallas apartment began with orders to guzzle salsa and hot sauce.
Then, Braylon Curry testified Wednesday, he and other pledges to Southern Methodist University's Alpha Phi Alpha chapter were peppered with fraternity trivia questions and forced to perform dances and sing fraternity songs. Mistakes were rewarded with demands by fraternity brothers to guzzle water, he said.
Mr. Curry said he drank 3 to 5 gallons of water that evening in 2003. He collapsed, had seizures and spent 10 days in the hospital as a result of the near-death experience.
Raymond Lee, 26, is on trial for aggravated assault in the case and faces to to 20 years in prison if convicted. Prosecutors say Mr. Lee, who had already graduated from college at the time of the incident, was the ringleader in the hazing.
"He was pushing the jug up to my mouth and slapping me on my arms and torso – it was pretty forceful," Mr. Curry testified Wednesday during Mr. Lee's trial.
"He did most of the hitting," prosecutor Josh Healy said during opening statements. "He was the most aggressive, and he forced most of the water down Braylon's throat."
Mr. Curry, now 23 and enrolled at Howard University, said he still suffers from memory loss and concentration problems as a result of the hazing.
After he collapsed, fraternity members began frantic Internet research on the effects of "over hydration," Mr. Healy said. They didn't call for an ambulance until Mr. Curry began having seizures, he said.
Attorneys for Mr. Lee suggested that Mr. Curry and other pledges voluntarily subjected themselves to the initiation ritual because the fraternity had an alternative method of acceptance that only involved a written application.
Attorney Ray Jackson also said that Mr. Curry was not under duress and could have stopped drinking the water at any time.
But Mr. Curry testified that fraternity members who did not go through the rituals were treated with ridicule. He said he drank the water because Mr. Lee forced the jug to his mouth.
"I got to the point that I was incoherent and had trouble standing," he said.
Four students were expelled after the incident, and Alpha Phi Alpha was banned from SMU's campus.
Prosecutors said in court that it wasn't the first time Mr. Lee had been accused of going too far with fraternity pledges.
As a University of Texas at Dallas student in 2001, Mr. Lee was accused of hazing and suspended from Alpha Phi Alpha. For punishment, he was ordered to perform community service and write a paper on the dangers of hazing.
"Hazing is an act of power and control over others," he wrote at the time. "It's victimization."
Testimony in Mr. Lee's trial is to resume today.
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MrMustang1965 - Posts: 11161
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by MrMustang1965 » Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:05 pm
By MICHAEL GRABELL / The Dallas Morning News
Mercy or a message?
They returned with a little of both Monday, according to relatives of the defendant and victim. Raymond Lee received 10 years' probation, a $10,000 fine and 180 days in jail.
The 28-year-old DeSoto fitness trainer was convicted Friday of aggravated assault in connection with the November 2003 off-campus ritual of the Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity.
As the sentence was read Monday afternoon, Mr. Lee wept. His mother gasped. His father yelled, "Jesus!" And several people prayed.
"God is good all the time," Libbie Lee said she told her son. "He's got 10 years to show the world that he's a real outstanding person."
The victim, Braylon Curry, did not attend the last day of the trial because he had to attend classes at Howard University.
"I'm disappointed," said his mother, Brenda Curry. "It didn't send as strong a message as I hoped for."
But she said the length of probation might still make others stop and think before engaging in initiation rituals.
The punishment phase hinged on whether jurors believed Mr. Lee knew the danger of his actions as he encouraged pledges to guzzle salsa and hot sauce and then held a gallon water jug to Mr. Curry's mouth, according to court testimony.
Jurors declined to discuss their decision as they filed out of the courtroom.
"Just say the penalty phase was tough," one man said as he got into the elevator.
Mrs. Lee, a former probation officer who leads a youth program, begged the jury Monday morning to let her son return to the community so that he could teach others not to make the same mistakes he did.
As she spoke, Mr. Lee sniffled and wiped his eyes.
"I can guarantee those tears are real over there," she said. "He's really a good person, and I just beg you to know that whatever happened was not malicious. It wasn't reckless."
Prosecutor Josh Healy countered testimony from Mr. Lee's mother and uncle by arguing that the man had already had enough chances.
"What kind of mercy did Braylon Curry have that night?" he asked the jury. "What kind of mercy at 4:30 a.m., when he's puking up a lung, did the defendant show him that night. ... Did Braylon's mom have any mercy when she got that call the next morning?"
After drinking so much water, Mr. Curry collapsed and had seizures, nearly drowning in his vomit. He was hospitalized for about 10 days and, according to a doctor, was close to death.
In the weeks after, Southern Methodist University suspended the fraternity from its campus.
On Monday, Mr. Healy urged jurors to send a message to the community that hazing wouldn't be tolerated.
"This is the first step to stop these acts," he said. "This is the first step to show everyone in this courtroom, everyone in this city and everyone in this county that we're not going to put up with this again."
Prosecutors contend that Mr. Lee, who graduated from the University of Texas at Dallas but was active in local fraternity events, knew the risks he was taking. While at UTD, he was suspended from his Alpha Phi Alpha chapter for participating in hazing.
He was on probation for stealing a pledge brother's identity and writing hot checks. On Monday, that probation was revoked, resulting in the 180-day jail sentence.
Defense attorney Ray Jackson said Mr. Lee had gone through the initiation himself and was engaging in a longtime fraternity ritual, known as "water night," that hadn't caused severe injuries before.
"The only purpose that anyone in that apartment had was to make a brother of the Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity," he said. "No one was there to try to harm Mr. Curry."
Mr. Jackson told the jury that they had already sent a message to the community and that the message had gotten through.
"There's no doubt that he will never give anybody water again," he said. "Nobody in the Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity will ever do water night."
Mercy or a message?
They returned with a little of both Monday, according to relatives of the defendant and victim. Raymond Lee received 10 years' probation, a $10,000 fine and 180 days in jail.
The 28-year-old DeSoto fitness trainer was convicted Friday of aggravated assault in connection with the November 2003 off-campus ritual of the Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity.
As the sentence was read Monday afternoon, Mr. Lee wept. His mother gasped. His father yelled, "Jesus!" And several people prayed.
"God is good all the time," Libbie Lee said she told her son. "He's got 10 years to show the world that he's a real outstanding person."
The victim, Braylon Curry, did not attend the last day of the trial because he had to attend classes at Howard University.
"I'm disappointed," said his mother, Brenda Curry. "It didn't send as strong a message as I hoped for."
But she said the length of probation might still make others stop and think before engaging in initiation rituals.
The punishment phase hinged on whether jurors believed Mr. Lee knew the danger of his actions as he encouraged pledges to guzzle salsa and hot sauce and then held a gallon water jug to Mr. Curry's mouth, according to court testimony.
Jurors declined to discuss their decision as they filed out of the courtroom.
"Just say the penalty phase was tough," one man said as he got into the elevator.
Mrs. Lee, a former probation officer who leads a youth program, begged the jury Monday morning to let her son return to the community so that he could teach others not to make the same mistakes he did.
As she spoke, Mr. Lee sniffled and wiped his eyes.
"I can guarantee those tears are real over there," she said. "He's really a good person, and I just beg you to know that whatever happened was not malicious. It wasn't reckless."
Prosecutor Josh Healy countered testimony from Mr. Lee's mother and uncle by arguing that the man had already had enough chances.
"What kind of mercy did Braylon Curry have that night?" he asked the jury. "What kind of mercy at 4:30 a.m., when he's puking up a lung, did the defendant show him that night. ... Did Braylon's mom have any mercy when she got that call the next morning?"
After drinking so much water, Mr. Curry collapsed and had seizures, nearly drowning in his vomit. He was hospitalized for about 10 days and, according to a doctor, was close to death.
In the weeks after, Southern Methodist University suspended the fraternity from its campus.
On Monday, Mr. Healy urged jurors to send a message to the community that hazing wouldn't be tolerated.
"This is the first step to stop these acts," he said. "This is the first step to show everyone in this courtroom, everyone in this city and everyone in this county that we're not going to put up with this again."
Prosecutors contend that Mr. Lee, who graduated from the University of Texas at Dallas but was active in local fraternity events, knew the risks he was taking. While at UTD, he was suspended from his Alpha Phi Alpha chapter for participating in hazing.
He was on probation for stealing a pledge brother's identity and writing hot checks. On Monday, that probation was revoked, resulting in the 180-day jail sentence.
Defense attorney Ray Jackson said Mr. Lee had gone through the initiation himself and was engaging in a longtime fraternity ritual, known as "water night," that hadn't caused severe injuries before.
"The only purpose that anyone in that apartment had was to make a brother of the Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity," he said. "No one was there to try to harm Mr. Curry."
Mr. Jackson told the jury that they had already sent a message to the community and that the message had gotten through.
"There's no doubt that he will never give anybody water again," he said. "Nobody in the Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity will ever do water night."
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MrMustang1965 - Posts: 11161
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by Longtime » Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:20 pm
You f'ers preaching "personal responsibility" have no f'in clue about the mind games played in fraternity hazing. It ain't band practice, it's serious mind-control s**t.
That's why there are LAWS against hazing, be it for a fraternity, lacrosse team or whatever. People do things in hazing situations they would NEVER do in the light of day, when their minds are working properly. Peer pressure, physical exhaustion and intoxication are powerful things.
Not to mention, this guy was a 28-year-old big-arse fitness trainer. Imagine him screaming at you to guzzle more water. What's someone that old doing hanging around a fraternity hazing pledges? Because he's a sadistic s.o.b. who gets off on that kind of thing.
You also don't know how much physical duress these guys were under. It may have been during a "hell week" after several days without sleep. Or maybe it was after running and doing push-ups to exhaustion. Usually, it's alcohol that is used to break down a person's mental safeguards. We aren't getting the whole story about that night, just the "juicy" part about the hot sauce and water guzzling.
Would you want to be the ONE pledge who refuses to drink water, when everyone else around you is doing it? Would you want to risk being ridiculed and have your manhood questioned every time you're around someone from the fraternity? You start imagining how miserable your college life is going to be if you de-pledge, how you will be a disappointment to your family, how you will have to explain to all your friends why you de-pledged. Sometimes it's easier just to drink the water and hope it's over with soon. After all, these are your "brothers" and they've been doing this "water night" for years. Surely, they know what they're doing?
This is powerful, powerful stuff. And it's why kids die every year, or are sodomized by a broom handle, etc. If it didn't happen, if it were just a matter of being able to say "no", it wouldn't be against the LAW.
So don't give me this personal responsibility b.s. unless you were in that pledge's shoes. In the mental state of a person subjected to hazing, sometimes you would rather die than just walk away.
That's why there are LAWS against hazing, be it for a fraternity, lacrosse team or whatever. People do things in hazing situations they would NEVER do in the light of day, when their minds are working properly. Peer pressure, physical exhaustion and intoxication are powerful things.
Not to mention, this guy was a 28-year-old big-arse fitness trainer. Imagine him screaming at you to guzzle more water. What's someone that old doing hanging around a fraternity hazing pledges? Because he's a sadistic s.o.b. who gets off on that kind of thing.
You also don't know how much physical duress these guys were under. It may have been during a "hell week" after several days without sleep. Or maybe it was after running and doing push-ups to exhaustion. Usually, it's alcohol that is used to break down a person's mental safeguards. We aren't getting the whole story about that night, just the "juicy" part about the hot sauce and water guzzling.
Would you want to be the ONE pledge who refuses to drink water, when everyone else around you is doing it? Would you want to risk being ridiculed and have your manhood questioned every time you're around someone from the fraternity? You start imagining how miserable your college life is going to be if you de-pledge, how you will be a disappointment to your family, how you will have to explain to all your friends why you de-pledged. Sometimes it's easier just to drink the water and hope it's over with soon. After all, these are your "brothers" and they've been doing this "water night" for years. Surely, they know what they're doing?
This is powerful, powerful stuff. And it's why kids die every year, or are sodomized by a broom handle, etc. If it didn't happen, if it were just a matter of being able to say "no", it wouldn't be against the LAW.
So don't give me this personal responsibility b.s. unless you were in that pledge's shoes. In the mental state of a person subjected to hazing, sometimes you would rather die than just walk away.
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Longtime 
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by Lefty » Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:46 pm
Yes, that's true.Longtime wrote:.... Peer pressure, physical exhaustion and intoxication are powerful things.
I didn't get a hell of a lot of sleep during my pledgeship, especially hell week, either. But I never was told to do anything like this, nor should anyone.Longtime wrote:.... You also don't know how much physical duress these guys were under. It may have been during a "hell week" after several days without sleep. Or maybe it was after running and doing push-ups to exhaustion. Usually, it's alcohol that is used to break down a person's mental safeguards. We aren't getting the whole story about that night, just the "juicy" part about the hot sauce and water guzzling.
Sure, I'd be the one to refuse. I went through pledgeship, and never objected when we had to work hard or when the active members made us do some things that weren't made clear to us. But we also knew they weren't trying to hurt us or make us puke. Standing up for myself or protecting myself against something like this is not something that would make my family or friends ashamed or "disappointed." In fact, I'd go so far as to bet they'd be damn proud of me if I'd walked out on such an event. "Surely they know what they're doing"? This whole tragic saga shows that they obviously did NOT know what they were doing.Longtime wrote:.... Would you want to be the ONE pledge who refuses to drink water, when everyone else around you is doing it? Would you want to risk being ridiculed and have your manhood questioned every time you're around someone from the fraternity? You start imagining how miserable your college life is going to be if you de-pledge, how you will be a disappointment to your family, how you will have to explain to all your friends why you de-pledged. Sometimes it's easier just to drink the water and hope it's over with soon. After all, these are your "brothers" and they've been doing this "water night" for years. Surely, they know what they're doing?
The sad part is that there are people who do things like this, making the law necessary in the first place.Longtime wrote:.... This is powerful, powerful stuff. And it's why kids die every year, or are sodomized by a broom handle, etc. If it didn't happen, if it were just a matter of being able to say "no", it wouldn't be against the LAW.
Nobody likes to be seen as a quitter, that's true. But when common sense (or a basic survival instinct) dictates that you do walk away, there's no choice to be made.Longtime wrote:.... So don't give me this personal responsibility b.s. unless you were in that pledge's shoes. In the mental state of a person subjected to hazing, sometimes you would rather die than just walk away.
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Lefty - Posts: 672
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by couch 'em » Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:58 pm
Longtime wrote:You f'ers preaching "personal responsibility" have no f'in clue about the mind games played in fraternity hazing. It ain't band practice, it's serious mind-control s**t.
That's why there are LAWS against hazing, be it for a fraternity, lacrosse team or whatever. People do things in hazing situations they would NEVER do in the light of day, when their minds are working properly. Peer pressure, physical exhaustion and intoxication are powerful things.
Not to mention, this guy was a 28-year-old big-arse fitness trainer. Imagine him screaming at you to guzzle more water. What's someone that old doing hanging around a fraternity hazing pledges? Because he's a sadistic s.o.b. who gets off on that kind of thing.
You also don't know how much physical duress these guys were under. It may have been during a "hell week" after several days without sleep. Or maybe it was after running and doing push-ups to exhaustion. Usually, it's alcohol that is used to break down a person's mental safeguards. We aren't getting the whole story about that night, just the "juicy" part about the hot sauce and water guzzling.
Would you want to be the ONE pledge who refuses to drink water, when everyone else around you is doing it? Would you want to risk being ridiculed and have your manhood questioned every time you're around someone from the fraternity? You start imagining how miserable your college life is going to be if you de-pledge, how you will be a disappointment to your family, how you will have to explain to all your friends why you de-pledged. Sometimes it's easier just to drink the water and hope it's over with soon. After all, these are your "brothers" and they've been doing this "water night" for years. Surely, they know what they're doing?
This is powerful, powerful stuff. And it's why kids die every year, or are sodomized by a broom handle, etc. If it didn't happen, if it were just a matter of being able to say "no", it wouldn't be against the LAW.
So don't give me this personal responsibility b.s. unless you were in that pledge's shoes. In the mental state of a person subjected to hazing, sometimes you would rather die than just walk away.
Blah blah blah. I have little sympathy for someone too weak willed and cowardly to say "no" and leave. If I felt my life was in danger, I would leave. If I have to risk my life to join their frat, then I won't join it. When my parents and friends ask what happened, I would tell them and feel no shame.
Were they all stupid? Yes. Was the hazer responsible for the death of the hazee? NO!
The guy who made them drink the water may be a sadist, but that doesn't matter. The pledge choose to drink the water. He was not forced to do so. He could have left. He didn't. He is at fault. If he were drunk, it is still his fault because he chose to become intoxicated.
The tragic part is that most likely nobody knew that they were doing is dangerous. If it had been beer they would probably all be alive because they would know the danger. Does that make any difference? No.
If he knew it was dangerous, then he is stupid, and it is his fault.
If he didn't know the danger, then it was an accident. Still, his his fault, or nobody's fault.
The laws exist to protect people from their own ignorance and foolishness. Maybe you like the government to tell you what to do as much as possible, but personally I think people should be responsible for their own actions.
If I get that guy to scream at you to tell you to jump off a building, are you not responsible?
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couch 'em - Posts: 9758
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by jtstang » Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:16 am
couch 'em wrote:Were they all stupid? Yes. Was the hazer responsible for the death of the hazee? NO!
Hey Pat Robertson--if you're gonna come on here and preach the gospel of personal responsibility, try and do so accurately. Nobody died. You'll make a much better motivational speaker when you get your facts straight.
Bottom line: this idiot broke the law and got convicted by a jury. Happens every day.
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jtstang - Posts: 11161
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by couch 'em » Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:42 am
jtstang wrote:Hey Pat Robertson--if you're gonna come on here and preach the gospel of personal responsibility, try and do so accurately. Nobody died. You'll make a much better motivational speaker when you get your facts straight.
That's it, I'm going to sue the website for allowing me to post on here without checking my posts and editing them. What if I post info that would put me at danger? You can't expect me as an individual to be responsible for my posts!
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couch 'em - Posts: 9758
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by MrMustang1965 » Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:16 am
Let's have a show of hands of those posting in this thread...who is in a fraternity and who is not?
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MrMustang1965 - Posts: 11161
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