Rams coming home

[PonyKai]

Two members of the LA Relocation Committee told the St. Louis Task Force they'd get an extra 100M, so they included it in the proposal. Then Goodell threw a sh*t fit and it was used against them in a half-assed attempt to try and discredit the only city that got off its a*s and put together a proposal to keep its team.

[Digetydog]

Just remember that the NFL doesn't give two sh*ts about anything-anything-other than taking as many of your dollars and occupying as many seconds of your life as it can. Especially when it wraps itself in the blanket of "patriotism," "family," "fans," or "fighting cancer." They don't give a sh*t about anything other than money.

That is why I am giving up my Jets season tickets. Instead of scheduling games to fit the schedule of season ticket holders, they schedule games to suit TV.

Result:
1) Every pre-season game is now on Thurs-Fri where games are a hassle to get to and impossible to take kids
2) 1 home game will be on Thursday night. Impossible to get to or to sell on StubHub without a loss.
3) the best home game will be on Monday night
4) they will "flex" late season games to Sunday night f'ing up my plans.

[PonySnob]

Just remember that the NFL doesn't give two sh*ts about anything-anything-other than taking as many of your dollars and occupying as many seconds of your life as it can. Especially when it wraps itself in the blanket of "patriotism," "family," "fans," or "fighting cancer." They don't give a sh*t about anything other than money.

Sadly, college sports is headed down that same path as well.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Bergermeister]

Just remember that the NFL doesn't give two sh*ts about anything-anything-other than taking as many of your dollars and occupying as many seconds of your life as it can.

Fortunately, I came to that realization years ago. NFL is long on sleaze and short on substance.

[lollaperuna]

I don't know, seems like the raiders could manage to scrounge up $500 somewhere.

If that were true, their owner could probably afford a better haircut than this one: http://www.sfgate.com/raiders/ostler/ar ... 757374.php

[1983 Cotton Bowl]

Not only that, STL had a proposal for a $1.1 billion stadium for the Rams which the NFL rejected because they asked the NFL to pay for $200 million of it, which apparently is $100 million over the "league policy" (which surely the league could change if they truly wanted to keep the Rams in STL).

The Rams were always LA's team but the way that STL got screwed by this is astounding.

The NFL is a business, and from a business perspective this one was a no-brainer. The Rams (and subsequently the Raiders or Chargers) have to pay the NFL a $500 million relocation fee. That means the owners get to cut up $1 billion for doing nothing more than saying yes. On top of that, the NFL will be trading in the 21st largest TV market (which is shrinking, not growing) for the top 5 LA market, along with a fancy new stadium that will be a huge revenue boon. If I was an NFL owner and this was presented to me, I would say yes in a heartbeat.

St. Louis could offer to build ten $1 billion stadiums, but it wouldn't put a cool $1 billion in the owner's pockets and it wouldn't give them a top 5 TV market. Simple math.

Not saying that I don't feel for the fans in StL. I felt bad for them when they lost the Cardinals all those years ago. But business is business.

20 years ago, Georgia Frontiere and the Rams made a bunch of demands on LA when Southern California was in the middle of a deep recession and it simply wasn't in the cards for a publically-funded stadium. St. Louis rolled out the red carpet and showered Georgia and the Rams with money and perks. That, plus Georgia's roots in StL, gave them the Rams and "screwed" LA. That's just the way the math worked then. From a business perspective, it was the right move. 20 years later, things have changed.

[PonyKai]

I am obviously aware that the NFL is a business, and that the owners may do as they please, which includes moving their property from one location to another for financial gain. There are still numerous issues with this.
1.) The NFL spends every waking moment trying to convince the consumer that this is "sports," and sports are "meaningful" in a way that other commodities are not. They want you to have sincere, life-long and deep, meaningful attachments to, effectively, a billionaire that doesn't give two sh*ts about you. Those stupid, insufferable "football is family" commercials immediately come to mind.

2.) The NFL, in an attempt to ward off congressional intervention twenty years ago along with souring fan attitudes, developed a lengthy and complex set of guidelines and procedures to restrict teams from moving from one location to another so brazenly. When the NFL blessed the Rams move from St. Louis, they basically [deleted] all over their own self-imposed rules. They blatantly said "they don't mean sh*t." Which, again, given that it's basically a social club for 32 of the ultra-rich is, their prerogative. But when you're a government sanctioned cartel that operates without any market threats, you're going to get taken to the woodshed for using these guidelines when they're convenient, and utterly and completely abandoning them when you stand to make a buck.

3.) The NFL lied continuously to St. Louis for over a year, stringing them out, and causing the municipality to spend millions of dollars in an effort to retain the team. This entire process was rigged from the beginning. The Rams were going to leave St. Louis. Kroenke, Jerry Jones, Roger Goodell, and Eric Grubman worked tirelessly on behalf of Kroenke to ensure that the Rams would leave St. Louis and the Inglewood project would be approved. Yet the NFL spent over a year talking out of both sides of its mouth. St. Louis puts together a task force. The city spends millions of dollars putting together a proposal, cobbling together financing, buying land, preparing for environmental studies and demolition, spending political capital at the local and state level and did EVERYTHING the NFL demanded they do, against all odds. All while spending in excess of $5 million dollars on the effort. It was the only locality to put forward a viable project and do what was requested of it by the NFL based on the NFL's always changing demands and timeline. And it was a total and complete f*cking sham. The NFL was never going to consider their stadium proposal as viable. So don't lie about it. They knew the team was leaving, they new St. Louis would be on the hook for over $100,000,000 on the current stadium, and they knew they were going to spin any lie they could to justify the move.

4.) Kroenke and the NFL sh*t all of the city in a vindictive effort to napalm the city and its people. This was, and is, all about the money. So f*cking say it is. Nothing is more sickening than watching Kroenke do an interview and play the "victim" card. Equally appalling is Kroenke and Goodell justifying their actions based on objectively false statements and factual assertions contained in their separate "reports". And it's utterly shameful the way they denigrated the market they were trying to vacate when Kroenke's Inglewood proposal was superior to the Carson proposal.

Yes, I'm aware of the dreadful contract lawyering St. Louis deployed in drawing up the lease between the Rams and the (then) TWA Dome. I'm aware of the "Top 25%" clause which is the worst contractual provision in the history of organized sports. Yes I'm aware of the obvious benefits in moving to L.A. Yes, I am aware of how the Rams left L.A. and came to St. Louis with a 100% publicly funded stadium. This was also the only time that the NFL's finance and opportunities committee has been ignored, the owner leaving the city napalmed it on the way out, the Rams didn't meet the NFL's relocation guidelines, the city met the NFL's requirements, and the NFL walked away from nearly $500,000,000 in public financing for the first time in its history.

Screw the NFL, and Kroenke. The man's name is "Enos Stanley Kroenke." He's named after two of the greatest St. Louis Cardinals. He's a Missourian. He's also a complete and total jackas*, and I hope the L.A. effort is a massive and colossal failure.

[CalallenStang]

Not only that, STL had a proposal for a $1.1 billion stadium for the Rams which the NFL rejected because they asked the NFL to pay for $200 million of it, which apparently is $100 million over the "league policy" (which surely the league could change if they truly wanted to keep the Rams in STL).

The Rams were always LA's team but the way that STL got screwed by this is astounding.

The NFL is a business, and from a business perspective this one was a no-brainer. The Rams (and subsequently the Raiders or Chargers) have to pay the NFL a $500 million relocation fee. That means the owners get to cut up $1 billion for doing nothing more than saying yes. On top of that, the NFL will be trading in the 21st largest TV market (which is shrinking, not growing) for the top 5 LA market, along with a fancy new stadium that will be a huge revenue boon. If I was an NFL owner and this was presented to me, I would say yes in a heartbeat.

St. Louis could offer to build ten $1 billion stadiums, but it wouldn't put a cool $1 billion in the owner's pockets and it wouldn't give them a top 5 TV market. Simple math.

Not saying that I don't feel for the fans in StL. I felt bad for them when they lost the Cardinals all those years ago. But business is business.

20 years ago, Georgia Frontiere and the Rams made a bunch of demands on LA when Southern California was in the middle of a deep recession and it simply wasn't in the cards for a publically-funded stadium. St. Louis rolled out the red carpet and showered Georgia and the Rams with money and perks. That, plus Georgia's roots in StL, gave them the Rams and "screwed" LA. That's just the way the math worked then. From a business perspective, it was the right move. 20 years later, things have changed.

I don't disagree with anything here. But unlike Oakland or San Diego, STL had a plan to satisfy the NFL's demands. If the league wanted two teams in the second largest market in America (I'm assuming LA is #2), it should have taken the two teams that had no local backup plan.

[PonyKris89]

I am happy the Rams are returning to LA. They had a great playoff rivalry with Cowboys, neither home team could seem to win.

I hope Chargers stay in San Diego.
I believe the Chargers should have a real fear
that selling tickets as a Stadium partner all the way to Engle-hood instead of Carson is a daunting task.

The Chargers need to persuade the NFL to up the subsidy to $200 million and tell the NFL to allow Raiders to consider the backup offer of LA... and in so doing, the Chargers need to receive the Raiders allotted $100 million in addition to the $200 million I alluded to. Hell, even ask them to increase the Raiders subsidy to $200 million before handing it over to Chargers. It's the least the NFL can do to get the correct two teams in LA.

Everybody wins, Rams get Raiders as partner, Raiders get to LA as they were hoping, and the Chargers get some heavy added $$$$ to their new stadium coffer fund, and lessening the city of San Diego's potetial contribution, or at least cushion the Chargers if costs increase.


The Raiders have a large fanbase in LA, so they will fare much better than Chargers would in LA. The Rams owner has plenty of deep pockets to help finance the deals for either partner, and I believe NFL would still be collecting $500 million relocation fee from Raiders, although that can probably be negotiated down or financed.

Oh, and the 49ers will be pleased to have the Bay area/Santa Clara to themselves.

Or of course if Raiders stay put, the 49ers could Arse rape the Raiders on a lease at Levi.

And don't forget the NFL still has Saint Louis at the ready when an expansion team or troubled team comes their way.

NFL and Rams owner Kroenke have too much money for there not to be a reasonable solution. Jerry Jones knew this.

Oh, and it keeps the Raiders out of San antonio for the time.

At least that's the way I believe it SHOULD play out... But...

But who am I kidding? Both Chargers and Raiders came too far to turn down this Englewood deal, even if it isn't their Deal.

So Chargers take the partnership with Rams at the risk of underselling the tickets, and the Raiders say SCREW It, and move to San Diego where they already have little trouble packing THAT stadium, and they beg for NFL subsidies and or reprieve on Relocation fees, and Raiders potentially cut the Chargers off even more from their old fanbase.

The artist renditions of the new complex look great, much better than Jerrah World.

[DanFreibergerForHeisman]

[PonyKai]

Two teams have left; I can't imagine they will get a third.

[PonyKris89]

Oh, please. St. Louis got f*cked over royally by the NFL and they're done as an NFL city.

And yes, I do feel for you guys, your city definitely got screwed.
But with time, wounds heal, I hope, and I bet the fans and city will be onboard when expansion talks are revisited.
And in the end, who wouldn't rather have their own team than some hand me down?

[PonyKai]

The NFL is done in St. Louis. They made that quite clear with the way they yanked the Rams out of there.

[PonyKris89]

All for greed, the NFL is in process of alienating,
St. Louis, San Diego, and Oakland.
And with possibility of empty seats for games in LA...

[SoCal_Pony]

I think there are real issues with the Rams returning to LA. I was assigned to LA for several years in the early 1970s and attended a number of Ram games in the Coliseum. At that time, the attendance was nothing special. Maybe 45 -50 thousand in a stadium that held nearly 100,000. Tickets were easy to get and many locals enjoyed UCLA and USC football much more for a variety of reasons. Laker and King tickets were very tough gets and the Dodgers played so many week night games that their tickets were no problem. The LA area has a variety of more things vying for the entertainment dollar that any place I can think. Californians would just as soon be on the beach as spending a Sunday afternoon stuck in a massive traffic jam just to see a game. Yes, the road systems where the new stadium will be located are nightmares commensurate with all LA standards. Not sure any rapid transit will service this location. Bottom line, the Rams have had only had 4 winning seasons in the last 21 seasons in St. Louis. If the Rams do not have a winner after the first 2 year honeymoon, the franchise will not be supported and the whole thing will be a loser. There was a reason the franchise left LA for St. Louis and those same reasons have not changed. I would not want to imagine what traffic would be like if San Diego made the decision to join the Rams in LA with their fan base initially seeking to drive to LA.

At some point teams like the Chargers and Raiders must come to grips with the idea that they have great fan bases and should curb their greed and stay where they are appreciated and thrive. Green Bay proves this point in every aspect every year.

I would add that LA is 50% Hispanic & 10% Asian, not the most ardent NFL fans.

Between drive time and the game, a fan from Orange County would devote 7 to 8 hours on game day, a fan from SD, over 10 hours. Not worth it except for the truly die-hards.