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US News rankings come out Sept 10

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US News rankings come out Sept 10

Postby tristatecoog » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:25 am

https://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/ ... ng-sept-10

On September 10, this list https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities will be updated. Currently, GW, Purdue, Texas, UDub and UCONN at #56 and SMU, BYU, Fordham, Syracuse, Maryland and WPI tied at #61.

Due to rising test scores (30 avg now and 34 for Dedman Scholars) and two year residency commitment (helping grad/retention rates), I think SMU moves into mid-50s.
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Re: US News rankings come out Sept 10

Postby SoCal_Pony » Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:52 am

HaHa, moving up 1 spot gets us to the mid-50's.

We have talked so long on this board about SMU moving up in the US News rankings, hopefully this is the year it all begins.
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Re: US News rankings come out Sept 10

Postby friarwolf » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:50 am

I would love to be shocked by an uptick in rankings but I predict stagnation or slippage. We continue to bring in better raw materials (students) and produce the same product. We need a complete rebuild in leadership and at all levels of instruction............
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Re: US News rankings come out Sept 10

Postby tristatecoog » Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:15 pm

friarwolf wrote:I would love to be shocked by an uptick in rankings but I predict stagnation or slippage. We continue to bring in better raw materials (students) and produce the same product. We need a complete rebuild in leadership and at all levels of instruction............


How do better "raw materials" get attracted to SMU? Just a continued migration from other states to Texas? TCU and Baylor seem to have improved in rankings but were, and still are, lower in the rankings. UT, A&M and Tech have slipped over the last decade.

SMU's b-school and engineering investments appear to be paying off. I believe the focus on scholarships, research, housing and residential professors (?) will pay off.
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Re: US News rankings come out Sept 10

Postby friarwolf » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:43 am

California is the main answer but we are getting high quality kids from all over. Business school continues to slip and we didn't do ourselves any favor bringing in a dean from Miami of Ohio. Engineering school is barely ranked inside the top 100 and a dean with degrees from George Mason. Simmons Dean from U of H and Aggieland. Dedman dean from Ohio State. A President from Abilene Christian..........

We get killed in the peer reviews every year and the pedigree of our senior management plays a large role in this. We need highly pedigreed leaders with contacts and relationships with the upper crust of universities to help change this. Couple that with demanding our professors raise their level of instruction and maybe in 10 years, some of this will change. We need to get rid of this inferiority complex and go after studs from top 10 universities. The board needs to grow a pair and start demanding better starting with sending Turner off into the sunset and bringing in a superstar as his replacement.......
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Re: US News rankings come out Sept 10

Postby SoCal_Pony » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:42 am

friarwolf wrote:California is the main answer but we are getting high quality kids from all over. Business school continues to slip and we didn't do ourselves any favor bringing in a dean from Miami of Ohio. Engineering school is barely ranked inside the top 100 and a dean with degrees from George Mason. Simmons Dean from U of H and Aggieland. Dedman dean from Ohio State. A President from Abilene Christian..........

We get killed in the peer reviews every year and the pedigree of our senior management plays a large role in this. We need highly pedigreed leaders with contacts and relationships with the upper crust of universities to help change this. Couple that with demanding our professors raise their level of instruction and maybe in 10 years, some of this will change. We need to get rid of this inferiority complex and go after studs from top 10 universities. The board needs to grow a pair and start demanding better starting with sending Turner off into the sunset and bringing in a superstar as his replacement.......


Friarwolf,

I completely agree with you and would also include our Law School.

SMU Law has been considered Tier 2/Tier 3 as long as I can remember and there seems no real commitment to change. Mediocrity is acceptable. There is UT, then waaay below them a fight between us and Baylor for the #2 spot, with Coogs and maybe now A&M closing in.

Currently, UT Law is ranked #15. SMU and Baylor are tied at #50 with Coog High 3 spots behind us.

We compete against Waco and Baylor and the Baptist. That's who we are. Who could possibly be content with that?

I did a quick search of the Top 13 Employers in Waco.

Providence Health is #1 with 2,434 employees, followed by Baylor, the Waco ISD and the City of Waco. HEB grocery store chain and Wal-Mart are on the list, as well our 3 other state agencies, McLennan County, the VA Hospital and at #13 with 721 employees, the McLennan County Juvenile Correction Facility. THAT IS WACO. THAT IS OUR COMPETITION!!

Dallas on the other hand has 10 Fortune 500 companies, 2nd most in the USA only to NYC.

I blame Turner for this, but it would not surprise me in the least if what MexMustang says is correct, that over the years RGT has populated the Board with allies. So I don't see any changes soon.

Very disappointing that SMU is not parlaying the success of Dallas into greater things for this school.
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Re: US News rankings come out Sept 10

Postby tristatecoog » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:00 pm

Almost five years in, has Dean Collins been an improvement? Collins received her B.A. in history from Yale University and her J.D. from Harvard University. She joined the faculty of Wake Forest University School of Law in 2003.
http://www.ponyfans.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=69648
According to the above string, SMU doesn't offer a lot of financial aid to top applicants. Has that changed? Apparently the incoming class has increased by a third (increasing revenue).

2013 entering class stats:
154 students
3.73 GPA and 164 LSAT

2017-18 entering stats:
https://www.smu.edu/Law/About/Fast-Facts
208 students
3.68 GPA and 161 LSAT
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Re: US News rankings come out Sept 10

Postby friarwolf » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:33 pm

59th........
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Re: US News rankings come out Sept 10

Postby MV pony » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:22 pm

SoCal_Pony wrote:
friarwolf wrote:California is the main answer but we are getting high quality kids from all over. Business school continues to slip and we didn't do ourselves any favor bringing in a dean from Miami of Ohio. Engineering school is barely ranked inside the top 100 and a dean with degrees from George Mason. Simmons Dean from U of H and Aggieland. Dedman dean from Ohio State. A President from Abilene Christian..........

We get killed in the peer reviews every year and the pedigree of our senior management plays a large role in this. We need highly pedigreed leaders with contacts and relationships with the upper crust of universities to help change this. Couple that with demanding our professors raise their level of instruction and maybe in 10 years, some of this will change. We need to get rid of this inferiority complex and go after studs from top 10 universities. The board needs to grow a pair and start demanding better starting with sending Turner off into the sunset and bringing in a superstar as his replacement.......


Friarwolf,

I completely agree with you and would also include our Law School.

SMU Law has been considered Tier 2/Tier 3 as long as I can remember and there seems no real commitment to change. Mediocrity is acceptable. There is UT, then waaay below them a fight between us and Baylor for the #2 spot, with Coogs and maybe now A&M closing in.

Currently, UT Law is ranked #15. SMU and Baylor are tied at #50 with Coog High 3 spots behind us.

We compete against Waco and Baylor and the Baptist. That's who we are. Who could possibly be content with that?

I did a quick search of the Top 13 Employers in Waco.

Providence Health is #1 with 2,434 employees, followed by Baylor, the Waco ISD and the City of Waco. HEB grocery store chain and Wal-Mart are on the list, as well our 3 other state agencies, McLennan County, the VA Hospital and at #13 with 721 employees, the McLennan County Juvenile Correction Facility. THAT IS WACO. THAT IS OUR COMPETITION!!

Dallas on the other hand has 10 Fortune 500 companies, 2nd most in the USA only to NYC.

I blame Turner for this, but it would not surprise me in the least if what MexMustang says is correct, that over the years RGT has populated the Board with allies. So I don't see any changes soon.

Very disappointing that SMU is not parlaying the success of Dallas into greater things for this school.


Each of my law school profs had an ivy league or top 10 law school degree on his/her CV. In or around 2009, the law school sent out a booklet touting the creds of its law school profs. I was shocked. Less than 5 (I remember only 3) had any ivy league or top 10 law school education. Most of the profs were from UT. If I wanted to be UT educated, I go to UT. That's the only such booklet I've received, thankfully. Ignorance is bliss.
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Re: US News rankings come out Sept 10

Postby tristatecoog » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:31 pm

Yes, SMU moved up to 59 tied with Washington, Penn State and WPI. Versus some other peers like Fordham, Clemson, UConn and GW that dropped, SMU moved two spots up. Villanova at #49 and Syracuse at #53 are doing well.

Other notables:
Vandy 14
Rice 16
USC 22
UVa 25
Florida 35
Tulane 44
Georgia 46
UT 49 -- nice jump from 56. Was tied with SMU two years ago. Keeping enrollment constant w high demand.
Miami 53
SMU 59
Clemson 66 (was tied with SMU)
A&M 66
Fordham 70 (was tied with SMU)
Baylor 78 -- slight drop
TCU 80 -- slight drop
Tulsa 106 -- drop from low 90s
Auburn 115
OU 124 (was in the 90s! -- cut back on funding/student? heard their NM scholarship isn't as compelling as it used to be)
UTD/Alabama/KU/Missou 129
Arkansas 152 (big drop...was in 120s)
Ole Miss 152 (believe they were around 135)
Houston 171 (woo-hoo!!!! up from 192 and outside top 200 three years ago)
Miss State 177
TX Tech 187 (was in 170s last year and mid-150s two years ago)
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Re: US News rankings come out Sept 10

Postby AfricanMustang » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:17 am

UT-Austin, A&M, SMU rise; Rice and Baylor slip in U.S. News rankings

Rice University and the University of Texas at Austin are the only Texas schools to rank in the top 50 nationwide, according to rankings released today from U.S. News & World report that placed the Houston private school in the 16th spot and UT-Austin in the 49th.

Here are all the Texas universities that made the top 200. Last year's rankings are in parentheses.

16. Rice (14)
49. UT-Austin (56)
59. SMU (61)
66. A&M (69)
78. Baylor (75)
80. TCU (78)
129. The University of Texas at Dallas (145)
171. University of Houston (192)
187. Texas Tech University (176)

https://www.texastribune.org/2018/09/10 ... -rankings/
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Re: US News rankings come out Sept 10

Postby DanFreibergerForHeisman » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:35 pm

tristatecoog wrote:Arkansas 152 (big drop...was in 120s)

Apparently they are only aspiring to be SMU in football.
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Re: US News rankings come out Sept 10

Postby tristatecoog » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:30 pm

This ranking seems off. Aren't SMU's entrance stats as good as UT's?

Here's the undergrad business rankings:

Rank, School, Score, Change
1 University of Pennsylvania (Wharton) 4.8 *
2 Massachusetts Institute of Technology (Sloan) 4.6 *
2 University of California--Berkeley (Haas)* 4.6 1
4 University of Michigan--Ann Arbor (Ross)* 4.5 -1
5 New York University (Stern) 4.4 *
6 Carnegie Mellon University (Tepper) (PA) 4.3 1
6 University of Texas--Austin (McCombs)* 4.3 -1
8 U. of North Carolina--Chapel Hill (Kenan-Flagler)* 4.2 -1
8 University of Virginia (McIntire)* 4.2 -1
10 Cornell University (Dyson) (NY) 4.1 -3
10 Indiana University--Bloomington (Kelley)* 4.1 1
10 University of Notre Dame (Mendoza) (IN) 4.1 1
10 University of Southern California (Marshall) 4.1 1
14 Washington University in St. Louis (Olin) 4.0 *
15 Emory University (Goizueta) (GA) 3.9 *
15 Georgetown University (McDonough) (DC) 3.9 *
15 Ohio State University--Columbus (Fisher)* 3.9 *
18 Univ. of Wisconsin--Madison* 3.8 -3
18 University of Illinois--Urbana-Champaign* 3.8 -3
18 University of Minnesota--Twin Cities (Carlson)* 3.8 -3
21 Boston College (Carroll) 3.7 3
21 Georgia Institute of Technology (Scheller)* 3.7 10
21 Michigan State University (Broad)* 3.7 3
21 Pennsylvania State U.--Univ. Park (Smeal)* 3.7 *
21 Purdue University--West Lafayette (Krannert) (IN)* 3.7 3
21 Univ. of Maryland--College Park* 3.7 *
21 University of Arizona (Eller)* 3.7 *
21 University of Georgia (Terry)* 3.7 3
21 University of Washington (Foster)* 3.7 3
30 Arizona State University--Tempe (Carey)* 3.6 -6
30 Babson College (MA) 3.6 1
30 Johns Hopkins University (MD) 3.6 N/A
30 Texas A&M University--College Station (Mays)* 3.6 1
30 University of Florida (Warrington)* 3.6 -6
35 Brigham Young Univ.--Provo (Marriott) (UT) 3.5 -4
35 Case Western Reserve Univ. (Weatherhead) (OH) 3.5 -4
35 University of California--Irvine (Merage)* 3.5 -4
35 University of Colorado--Boulder (Leeds)* 3.5 -4
35 University of Iowa (Tippie)* 3.5 -4
35 University of Pittsburgh* 3.5 -4
35 Wake Forest University (NC) 3.5 5
42 Boston University 3.4 -2
42 George Washington University (DC) 3.4 *
44 College of William & Mary (Mason) (VA)* 3.3 -2
44 Florida State University* 3.3 1
44 Georgia State University (Robinson)* 3.3 20 (biggest jump)
44 Pepperdine University (CA) 3.3 1
44 Southern Methodist University (Cox) (TX) 3.3 1
44 Syracuse University (Whitman) (NY) 3.3 -3
44 Tulane University (Freeman) (LA) 3.3 1
44 United States Air Force Academy (CO)* 3.3 1
44 Univ. of Massachusetts--Amherst (Isenberg)* 3.3 1
44 Univ. of Nebraska--Lincoln* 3.3 1
44 Univ. of South Carolina (Moore)* 3.3 1
44 University of Alabama (Culverhouse)* 3.3 1
44 University of Arkansas (Walton)* 3.3 1
44 University of California--San Diego (Rady)* 3.3 1
44 University of Oregon (Lundquist)* 3.3 20 (biggest jump)
44 University of Utah (Eccles)* 3.3 1
44 Villanova University (PA) 3.3 1
44 Virginia Tech (Pamplin)* 3.3 1

https://poetsandquantsforundergrads.com ... rograms/2/
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Re: US News rankings come out Sept 10

Postby SoCal_Pony » Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:37 pm

For point of context, during our Pony Express days SMU was ranked 'somewhat' higher nationally than it is today and relatively speaking, had a larger endowment.

It is completely unacceptable that our B-School is ranked at #44. We are tied with Georgia State University, the United States Air Force Academy, the University of Nebraska, the University of South Carolina, the University of Alabama and the University of Arkansas? Really??? This is what we aspire to?

How RGT maintains control is truly baffling to me. Is there any accountability at this school?

Not a very proud time to be an alumni of SMU.
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Re: US News rankings come out Sept 10

Postby midwestpony » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:31 pm

From the above poets and quants link, a description of how its completed. Obviously I would ignore a peer survey and focus more on the poets and quants version that takes into account students admission data and student outcomes.



"New year, same methodology and same result. The University of Pennsylvania’s Wharton School today (Sept. 10) topped the U.S. News ranking of best undergraduate business programs again. Also, similar to last year, the small undergraduate program at MIT’s Sloan School of Management placed second. This year, however, MIT Sloan shared the second spot with the University of California-Berkeley’s Haas School of Business, which moved up one spot from last year’s ranking. While UC-Berkeley went up one spot, the University of Michigan’s Ross School of Business slipped from a third place tie with UC-Berkeley last year to fourth this year. New York University’s Stern School of Business rounded out the top five.

The nature of U.S. News’ methodology for ranking undergraduate programs naturally lends itself to many ties. Besides the tie for second place, Carnegie Mellon University’s Tepper School of Business and the University of Texas-Austin McCombs School of Business both tied for sixth place. Another tie followed at eighth place with the University of North Carolina’s Kenan-Flagler Business School and the University of Virginia’s McIntire School of Commerce. Cornell University’s Dyson School slipped three spots to share 10th place with Indiana University’s Kelley School of Business, Notre Dame’s Mendoza College of Business, and the University of Southern California’s Marshall School of Business. Indiana, Notre Dame, and USC all gained one spot to enter the top 10.

U.S. News ranks undergraduate business programs on a single metric: A peer assessment survey of deans and senior faculty members who are asked to rate schools on a one-to-five scale, with five (distinguished) the best score and one (marginal) the worst. Those scores are then totaled and averaged. But the ranking is highly dependent on response rates and the simple methodology makes it hard for the ranking to differentiate programs. Wharton’s score was a 4.8. MIT and UC-Berkeley both notched a 4.6. Overall, the top 14 schools had an average of 4.0 or higher.

A FEW BIG WINNERS AND BIG LOSERS

Unlike Poets&Quants‘ ranking of undergraduate business programs, which factors in hard admissions and outcomes data with alumni surveys, the U.S. News list can be little more than a popularity contest. Critics say survey respondents often take out the year’s earlier ranking and fill out the survey based on earlier results and their own prejudices. That tends to keep the same schools at the top of the list. The only big change in the top 25 was Georgia Institute of Technology’s Scheller College of Business, which jumped 10 spots to tie for 21st place with eight, yes eight, other schools. Georgia State University’s Robinson School — also based in Atlanta — and the University of Oregon were the other big winners in this year’s ranking, surging 20 places each to an 18-school tie for 44th place. Schools losing the most ground were Miami University (Ohio), Temple University, the University of Connecticut, the University of Kansas, and the University of Tennessee, all of which lost 17 places.

The difference in methodologies between P&Q and the U.S. News creates some major differences in the respective rankings. Wharton places first in both rankings, but Washington University’s Olin School places second in the P&Q version and 14th in the U.S. News version, despite having some of the most impressive admissions standards and career outcomes.

All told, 456 business programs were ranked this year by U.S. News. Some 53 schools tied for 405th place with a score of 2.0. Another 55 schools notched a 2.1 for 350th place. U.S. News also released the top five schools for specific business areas. The University of Texas McCombs School placed first in accounting, followed by Brigham Young University, the University of Illinois, the University of Michigan, and the University of Pennsylvania respectively. For entrepreneurship Babson College placed first, followed by MIT. Indiana University followed in third and UC-Berkeley, the University of Michigan, and the University of North Carolina all tied for fourth place. In finance, the University of Pennsylvania finished first followed New York University, MIT, Michigan, and Texas respectively."
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