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Should SMU sever ties with the Methodist Church?

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Re: Should SMU sever ties with the Methodist Church?

Postby ThisIsOurTime » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:51 pm

gostangs wrote:
ThisIsOurTime wrote:
gostangs wrote:We are not a religious school. Perkins is the smallest school at the university and also is the least productive to the whole. (Less donations, prestigege, students and alumni then any other school at SMU). It worked out ok for Duke and USC to separate from the church - we need to do the same. Let the church be the church and SMU be a university.


What is your faith? Why do you think the Methodists founded the school?


Not sure the reason the Methodist founded the school is relevant at this point. Theology is not a sustainable academic path for a university today - unless it is a total focus such as Dallas Baptist. Also not relevant - but my faith is active Presbyterian.

We all just need to admit this has been in name only for well over 50 years. Probably more. Separating is only acknowledging the reality. The Methodist church has no control over SMU, the Bishops on the board are figure heads and there is very little religious academic activity going on at SMU.

And the M can be for Middle. Or just leave it as Methodist but refer to us as just SMU (like TCU does now). That is not insulting to anyone - it just acknowledges that things change over time.


I asked whether you had a faith because many of the things you are saying are contrary to Christian principles. You are going on and on about money and prestige among men and other worldly things as being the most important. But those are far from Christian principles. And those weren't the principles used in starting and running the school.

From the Christian perspective, it is a terrible thing that one of its institutions is being stolen and turned into an outright atheistic institution. The fact that this has been going on for years doesn't make it better. This ultimately means less influence for Christians and worse will even be used as a tool to undermine the faith. I don't see how the founders of the school would be happy with this outcome.
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Re: Should SMU sever ties with the Methodist Church?

Postby PK » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:53 pm

Or just change the name to SMU, previously known as Prince...er...Southern Methodist University. 8)
SMU's first president, Robert S. Hyer, selected Harvard Crimson and Yale Blue as SMU's colors to symbolize SMU's high academic standards. We are one of the few Universities to have school colors with real meaning...and we just blow them off.
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Re: Should SMU sever ties with the Methodist Church?

Postby horsemanx » Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:19 pm

Hopefully after the split the part of the church that is cool with gays will be the new default "Methodist" church and it will still be ok to be Southern Methodist.
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Re: Should SMU sever ties with the Methodist Church?

Postby ThisIsOurTime » Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:25 pm

United Methodist Church To Split Over Whether Or Not To Be Christians

NASHVILLE, TN Leaders from the United Methodist Church have announced a tentative plan to split the church over differences on whether or not Methodists should be Christian or some sort of social group with a vague deist motif that makes up morality based on whatever it feels like.

"There was just no way to reconcile differences," said Rev. Lloyd Patrick, one of those dismayed by the recent push by traditionalists to follow the Bible instead of each person's own heart. "A lot of people still want to follow Jesus -- a person from 2000 years ago who made no statements about pronouns and thus has no relevance today -- which is just silly since we all know so much more now and have a better grasp on morality than a bunch of ancient people."

Rev. Patrick went on to describe how Christian beliefs put an unnecessary burden on people, as they can lead to ridicule or even being canceled. "I guess they don't have to worry about that in primitive places overseas," Rev. Patrick said, "but we can't be expected to deal with that in the U.S."

While most of the U.S. Methodist churches are moving in a more modern direction, away from outdated beliefs like Christianity, it's mainly in less developed nations in places like Africa that are still hung up on things like the Bible, necessitating the split. We got no statements from anyone there, though, as it didn't seem worth listening to such unenlightened views.

https://babylonbee.com/news/methodist-c ... christians
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Re: Should SMU sever ties with the Methodist Church?

Postby PK » Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:11 pm

Do not click on the link above.
You will have to shut down to get out of it. Thanks "ThisIsOurTime" for wasting my time. So Christian of you.
SMU's first president, Robert S. Hyer, selected Harvard Crimson and Yale Blue as SMU's colors to symbolize SMU's high academic standards. We are one of the few Universities to have school colors with real meaning...and we just blow them off.
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Re: Should SMU sever ties with the Methodist Church?

Postby ThisIsOurTime » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:37 pm

PK wrote:Do not click on the link above.
You will have to shut down to get out of it. Thanks "ThisIsOurTime" for wasting my time. So Christian of you.


Lol, you shouldn't have to click on the link. I posted the whole article but wanted to give them credit. Sorry if you had some trouble with it. I clicked on the link and didn't have any trouble. Regardless, Babylon Bee is satirical news site like the Onion if you weren't familiar with them.
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Re: Should SMU sever ties with the Methodist Church?

Postby PK » Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:31 pm

ThisIsOurTime wrote:
PK wrote:Do not click on the link above.
You will have to shut down to get out of it. Thanks "ThisIsOurTime" for wasting my time. So Christian of you.


Lol, you shouldn't have to click on the link. I posted the whole article but wanted to give them credit. Sorry if you had some trouble with it. I clicked on the link and didn't have any trouble. Regardless, Babylon Bee is satirical news site like the Onion if you weren't familiar with them.

I assumed it was an Onion type thing, but I swear when I got on the site I could not back out of it or close the internet connection. Started to worry about what else it might do to me if I clicked on anything so I bailed out by shutting down my computer.
SMU's first president, Robert S. Hyer, selected Harvard Crimson and Yale Blue as SMU's colors to symbolize SMU's high academic standards. We are one of the few Universities to have school colors with real meaning...and we just blow them off.
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Re: Should SMU sever ties with the Methodist Church?

Postby EastStang » Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:46 pm

https://www.dailywire.com/news/cnn-reporter-gets-upset-that-babylon-bee-story-went-viral-bee-responds

CNN "fact checker" cited misinformation from Babylon Bee then backed off and said, he knew it was satirical all the time, but others might not.

Babylon Bee paid them back with this headline: "CNN Attacks Babylon Bee: 'The Internet Is Only Big Enough For One Fake News Site'"

Gotta love them.
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Re: Should SMU sever ties with the Methodist Church?

Postby ponyboy » Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:07 am

Babylon Bee is gold.
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Re: Should SMU sever ties with the Methodist Church?

Postby Dark Horse » Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:46 pm

ThisIsOurTime wrote:From the Christian perspective, it is a terrible thing that one of its institutions is being stolen and turned into an outright atheistic institution. The fact that this has been going on for years doesn't make it better. This ultimately means less influence for Christians and worse will even be used as a tool to undermine the faith. I don't see how the founders of the school would be happy with this outcome.

The goal is to educate, not teach christianity or any other faith. For years (decades), SMU has welcomed students from all states countries and faiths, and is better for it. If you want a church-based education, you can study theology at perkins or there are plenty of schools elsewhere that offer that.
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Re: Should SMU sever ties with the Methodist Church?

Postby gostangs » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:17 pm

Dark Horse wrote:
ThisIsOurTime wrote:From the Christian perspective, it is a terrible thing that one of its institutions is being stolen and turned into an outright atheistic institution. The fact that this has been going on for years doesn't make it better. This ultimately means less influence for Christians and worse will even be used as a tool to undermine the faith. I don't see how the founders of the school would be happy with this outcome.

The goal is to educate, not teach christianity or any other faith. For years (decades), SMU has welcomed students from all states countries and faiths, and is better for it. If you want a church-based education, you can study theology at perkins or there are plenty of schools elsewhere that offer that.


This is my point exactly. Also I am pretty sure the founders would want a university that continues to educate - not one that gets caught up in a meaningless denominational fight when said denomination already doesn't control anything. There is nothing un-Christian about that view - its just realistic. You want to study only theology - step right up to Perkins and be my guest.
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Re: Should SMU sever ties with the Methodist Church?

Postby ponyboy » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:22 am

IDEALISM: If Christianity is true -- and I think it is -- then education means in great part teaching Christianity. Veritas liberavit vos, our motto and the words of Jesus. Some of you seem to be advocating for vocational training. Sure, universities can be DeVry with brick and ivy, but let's not forget the core mission of universities: teaching one how to be a good human being.

(We're not doing a very good job of it, present company excepted. We pump out a good number of morons who think that life is about how many zeros are to the left of the period on their latest paycheck. Liberal education is supposed to help cure all that).

REALISM: What does any of this have to do with SMU severing ties with the Methodist church?

There are those in the media who have jumped on the internal struggle in the UMC and SMU's attempt to wrest control of property from the UMC, saying that SMU is in effect protesting against the decision of the UMC governance not to provide blanket endorsement of the homosexual lifestyle.

I don't believe this narrative to be true in the slightest, though when pressed SMU might do just cave to pressure to make such a statement. But they won't be pressed to do so since the latest news is that the progressive wing of the UMC will be retaining control of the UMC name -- traditionalists are about to go create their own denomination, the "Global Wesleyan Church", or some such thing.

But, again, this situation was never about making a statement -- it was about taking the opportunity during a time of internal UMC unrest to take ownership of SMU property and governance.
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Re: Should SMU sever ties with the Methodist Church?

Postby Hoss » Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:03 pm

ponyboy wrote:IDEALISM: If Christianity is true -- and I think it is -- then education means in great part teaching Christianity. Veritas liberavit vos, our motto and the words of Jesus. Some of you seem to be advocating for vocational training. Sure, universities can be DeVry with brick and ivy, but let's not forget the core mission of universities: teaching one how to be a good human being.

If a university is going to teach one religion; teach about all faiths. And teaching to be a good human being is absolutely a part of a university's core mission. But so is teaching business, languages, science, law, music, engineering -- whatever someone needs to prepare for a career of choice.
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Re: Should SMU sever ties with the Methodist Church?

Postby macyakker'81 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:01 am

I grew up in the Methodist Church as well (for what it's worth) but that had nothing to do with my selection of SMU for my undergraduate education. That said, I would not want to change the name, rather continue to marginalize church involvement except as it relates to Perkins School of Theology.
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