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We have a new Law Dean

Postby SoCal_Pony » Fri May 27, 2022 5:20 pm

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Re: We have a new Law Dean

Postby AfricanMustang » Fri May 27, 2022 6:59 pm



Interesting background.

UChicago, transferred to Brigham Young University, for a B.A. in history and teaching. He then earned an M.A. and Ph.D. in education policy and administration from The Ohio State University and his J.D. from the University of Pennsylvania School of Law.

He practiced law for about three years too.
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Re: We have a new Law Dean

Postby Mustangs_Maroons » Sun May 29, 2022 10:40 am

I suppose this is what SMU is, without obviously knowing any of the details, it appears to me we’re just not able to attract top level talent even for a Dean at the law school…We can’t bring in an associate Dean or provost from a T10 / T14 law school, so we have to go to a law school that is decent but in no way stellar. No interest from top level scholars. It’s not like it’s a lateral move, this is a huge step up for someone that just gained tenure 4/5 years ago. Has he proven he can raise money, be able to elevate the law school’s ranking, or is this just another average hire to keep the law school moving sideways, as it has been for as long as I can remember. Maybe a slight upgrade to the hiring of the Cox Dean years ago but nothing super exciting, IMO.
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Re: We have a new Law Dean

Postby SoCal_Pony » Sun May 29, 2022 11:27 am

Mustangs_Maroons wrote:I suppose this is what SMU is, without obviously knowing any of the details, it appears to me we’re just not able to attract top level talent even for a Dean at the law school…We can’t bring in an associate Dean or provost from a T10 / T14 law school, so we have to go to a law school that is decent but in no way stellar. No interest from top level scholars. It’s not like it’s a lateral move, this is a huge step up for someone that just gained tenure 4/5 years ago. Has he proven he can raise money, be able to elevate the law school’s ranking, or is this just another average hire to keep the law school moving sideways, as it has been for as long as I can remember. Maybe a slight upgrade to the hiring of the Cox Dean years ago but nothing super exciting, IMO.


Agreed. We stink at this. Shame on our BOT for allowing this mediocrity to exist these past decades.

A&M is ranked higher #46. We are tied with Baylor at #58.

Dallas is the only city besides NYC with Fortune 500 revenues over $1T.

In terms of GDP Dallas is ranked #14 in the world!!!
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Re: We have a new Law Dean

Postby Mustangs_Maroons » Sun May 29, 2022 1:05 pm

And if this has the provost’s approval, which I’m sure it does, I also question her ability to lead a university such as SMU. Dallas deserves more from SMU. We need to strive to be what Rice is for Houston. It’s pathetic that A&M acquires a third tier law school and in a few years has already passed SMU in the rankings.

I have nothing personal against Turner but he needs to step down. I’ve said it before he can be a good chancellor and still help with fund raising but we need a new President that will get SMU to be a top 30/35 national university. Turner is 76 years old. He has been here for 27 years as President which is insane.
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Re: We have a new Law Dean

Postby SoCal_Pony » Sun May 29, 2022 2:05 pm

100% agree about the A&M purchase.....pathetic

after keeping Niemi so long, then his uninspiring replacement....our past law dean and now this hire.....honestly Maroons, I don't feel very confident in our BOT's ability to hire our next President.

SMU, a 2nd tier school in a world class city.
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Re: We have a new Law Dean

Postby deucetz » Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:23 am

He is a step up from Cox Dean in terms of academics & education, but at least Matthew Myers had prior experience as Dean at Miami University in Ohio, even though the school's academic reputation is paltry.

The fault is on Gerald Turner and the SMU board--which is too large to make decisions. SMU is a second-tier university that has no ambitions to become a great university for Dallas. Turner isn't even that great of a fundraiser, it's not like SMU is out fundraising TCU and Baylor. It is not hard to fundraise money from baby boomers, the richest generation in US history, and corporations in DFW. TCU and Baylor are our peers (and we are behind them in some metrics), with no ambitions of trying to become Rice/Emory/Vanderbilt/WASHU. I have left posts about what SMU needs to do in the past, we don't need a management consulting company to tell us what to do.

TAMU Law has shown what can be done if you get your act together. Results are shown in a few years, not decades. SMU has made President Turner a very rich man, at the expense of SMU's reputation.
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Re: We have a new Law Dean

Postby AfricanMustang » Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:23 pm

deucetz wrote:He is a step up from Cox Dean in terms of academics & education, but at least Matthew Myers had prior experience as Dean at Miami University in Ohio, even though the school's academic reputation is paltry.

The fault is on Gerald Turner and the SMU board--which is too large to make decisions. SMU is a second-tier university that has no ambitions to become a great university for Dallas. Turner isn't even that great of a fundraiser, it's not like SMU is out fundraising TCU and Baylor. It is not hard to fundraise money from baby boomers, the richest generation in US history, and corporations in DFW. TCU and Baylor are our peers (and we are behind them in some metrics), with no ambitions of trying to become Rice/Emory/Vanderbilt/WASHU. I have left posts about what SMU needs to do in the past, we don't need a management consulting company to tell us what to do.

TAMU Law has shown what can be done if you get your act together. Results are shown in a few years, not decades. SMU has made President Turner a very rich man, at the expense of SMU's reputation.


How is he a step up from Cox Dean? What do you mean SMU is not out fundraising TCU and Baylor? What metrics are you using to make that statement? Which metrics are we behind them? Save for Baylor which just joined Carnegie R1?
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Re: We have a new Law Dean

Postby deucetz » Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:58 pm

AfricanMustang wrote:
How is he a step up from Cox Dean? I simply meant that Jason Nance has a more prestigious educational background (BA from Brigham Young University, PhD in Education Policy from Ohio State, and a JD from UPenn), and academic background as an associate dean from the University of Florida, Levin College of Law (currently ranked No. 21 from US News). Myers has a masters in International Business from the University of South Carolina, and a PhD from Michigan State University. Myers came from an unranked business school according to US News.


What do you mean SMU is not out fundraising TCU and Baylor? In 1995 when Turner came into office the SMU endowment was ranked 38, with 498,192 M. TCU was ranked 41 w/ 481,858 M, and Baylor ranked 67 w/ 340,764 M. https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d97/d97t352.asp

As of 2019, SMU was ranked 65 at 1,607,333 M. TCU was 64 at 1,620,665 M, Baylor was 74 at 1,322,822 M. I didn't add 2022 numbers since National Center for Educations Statistics didn't list them yet, but TCU is still higher than SMU. One of the main jobs of the president is to increase the endowment and we are losing the battle against TCU during Turner's presidency. It has been difficult to find the amount that SMU's endowment distributes to the university, I think it's 4%. TCU & Baylor is 5%.
https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d20 ... 333.90.asp



What metrics are you using to make that statement? Which metrics are we behind them? Save for Baylor which just joined Carnegie R1? As you mentioned Baylor has reached Carnegie R1. TCU now has a medical school, which will pay dividends to help it towards Carnegie R1. TCU has recently had a Rhodes Scholar. Beyond that, from 2018 to 2019, SMU's graduation rate is 78% and acceptance rate was 53%. Baylor's graduation rate is 77% and acceptance rate was 68%. TCU's graduation rate is 83% and acceptance rate was 48%.

Unless you can show otherwise, I think Turner has underperformed as a President during his 27 years at SMU.
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Re: We have a new Law Dean

Postby NavyCrimson » Thu Jun 02, 2022 7:03 pm

Good info. Wonder if anyone on the BOT reads this message board??? You would figure it would wake someone up but you never know.

Just the fact that Memphis made it at a smidgen of the tuition cost of SMU is sad and most embarrassing.
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Re: We have a new Law Dean

Postby Mustangs_Maroons » Sun Jun 05, 2022 4:45 pm

It’s a shame Memphis and Baylor have already achieved R1 research status. Didn’t know about TCUs medical school. That’s a smart move. Meanwhile Turner is asleep at the wheel…
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Re: We have a new Law Dean

Postby NavyCrimson » Sun Jun 05, 2022 7:31 pm

And making $800k+ annually.
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Re: We have a new Law Dean

Postby Mustangs_Maroons » Sun Jun 05, 2022 10:30 pm

I read that in 2016 Turner was paid $3.3mm, and was the third highest paid private university president.
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Re: We have a new Law Dean

Postby deucetz » Mon Jun 06, 2022 10:18 am

Mustangs_Maroons wrote:I read that in 2016 Turner was paid $3.3mm, and was the third highest paid private university president.


In 2016, President Turner was the third-highest at $3.3 M for total compensation (salary and bonus) according to a 2016 Forbes article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/karstenstr ... d95574444e

In 2019, his total compensation was 1.58 M making him the No. 25 highest-paid president. It is difficult to get all salary information since SMU is private. https://www.chronicle.com/article/execu ... ivate_2019

Due to President Turner's position in Dallas, he is able to get even more money from board positions in the region. He has served on the board of JC Penny, American Beacon Funds, and as a director at Kronos just to name a few. Needless to say, President Turner is highly compensated for mediocre results. SMU should stop competing with Baylor and TCU, and set its eyes on being compared to Emory, WashU, Vanderbilt, Duke, and Rice. Being a small private university in Dallas Ft. Worth, should be a benefit and not an excuse for mediocracy.
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Re: We have a new Law Dean

Postby SoCal_Pony » Mon Jun 06, 2022 1:03 pm

deucetz wrote:Needless to say, President Turner is highly compensated for mediocre results. SMU should stop competing with Baylor and TCU, and set its eyes on being compared to Emory, WashU, Vanderbilt, Duke, and Rice. Being a small private university in Dallas Ft. Worth, should be a benefit and not an excuse for mediocracy.


Agree 10000000000% and I question anyone who remotely defends RGT continued reign here.

The 7th largest employer in Dallas is SW Airlines. They have 59,000 employees and generate $9B in annual revenues.

The 7th largest employer in Waco is a veterinarian clinic that has 300 employees and generated $6M in annual revenues.

That is our peer school.

RIDICULOUS

And i blame our BOTs as well. They’ve allowed this nonsense to continue.
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