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SMU SATs

Postby SoCal_Pony » Wed Sep 07, 2022 5:13 pm

This site says SMU’s average SAT scores is 1,381 which places us second in the state to Rice’s 1,514.

Just as importantly, it’s projecting next years SAT score at 1,438, a very impressive 4.1% increase which is higher than any other major university i looked at.

Can anyone confirm this and explain why the huge increase?

site is http://www.collegeraptor.com
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Re: SMU SATs

Postby mrydel » Wed Sep 07, 2022 5:35 pm

Inflation
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Re: SMU SATs

Postby PonyTime » Thu Sep 08, 2022 1:23 pm

SoCal_Pony wrote:This site says SMU’s average SAT scores is 1,381 which places us second in the state to Rice’s 1,514.

Just as importantly, it’s projecting next years SAT score at 1,438, a very impressive 4.1% increase which is higher than any other major university i looked at.

Can anyone confirm this and explain why the huge increase?

site is http://www.collegeraptor.com


When you start to allow students to be admitted without test scores (ACT/SAT) you can start to inflate your numbers. The test optional admits would have been the lowest scores at SMU and they are no longer factored into the overall numbers.

Basically, if your score is below the SMU average, there is no incentive to submit it.

You will start to see this SAT inflation occur at most schools.

https://www.smu.edu/News/Featured/smu-to-remain-test-optional-for-fall-23-and-spring-24#:~:text=SMU%20will%20remain%20test%2Doptional,fall%202023%20and%20spring%202024.&text=DALLAS%20(SMU)%20%E2%80%93%20SMU%20will,fall%202023%20and%20spring%202024.
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Re: SMU SATs

Postby tristatecoog » Thu Sep 08, 2022 5:37 pm

https://www.smu.edu/Provost/IR/Statistics

Yep, due to fewer enrollees reporting test scores.

2021: 1350-1490 range 16% reported vs. UT-Austin 56% reporting 1230-1480
2020: 1250-1440 range 40% reported
2019: 1320-1450 range 39% reported

2021: 31-34 range 23% reported vs. UT-Austin 26% reporting 29-34
2020: 29-33 range 55% reported
2019: 29-33 range 55% reported

The general guidance for top schools is not to report unless you're near the top quarter.

At UT, McCombs and Cockrell get lots of pub but the College of Liberal Arts, Communications and Education enroll the vast majority of grads.
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Re: SMU SATs

Postby gostangs » Sun Dec 11, 2022 1:46 pm

tristatecoog wrote:https://www.smu.edu/Provost/IR/Statistics

Yep, due to fewer enrollees reporting test scores.

2021: 1350-1490 range 16% reported vs. UT-Austin 56% reporting 1230-1480
2020: 1250-1440 range 40% reported
2019: 1320-1450 range 39% reported

2021: 31-34 range 23% reported vs. UT-Austin 26% reporting 29-34
2020: 29-33 range 55% reported
2019: 29-33 range 55% reported

The general guidance for top schools is not to report unless you're near the top quarter.

At UT, McCombs and Cockrell get lots of pub but the College of Liberal Arts, Communications and Education enroll the vast majority of grads.


But assuming reporting is happening at about the same rate - its still a useful comparative tool. Your just comparing out top 20% to others top 20%
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Re: SMU SATs

Postby tristatecoog » Wed Dec 14, 2022 5:12 pm

Appears that UT applicants report test scores far more often than SMU applicants. UT aspirants outside the top 6% (25% of the class) need strong data points.
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Re: SMU SATs

Postby Pony81 » Wed Dec 14, 2022 8:45 pm

tristatecoog wrote:Appears that UT applicants report test scores far more often than SMU applicants. UT aspirants outside the top 6% (25% of the class) need strong data points.


So would you say that our student body quality is improving relative to UT, A&M? Staying the same?
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Re: SMU SATs

Postby tristatecoog » Fri Dec 16, 2022 10:44 am

To determine changes in entering classes over time, I used the common data sets for SMU, UT and A&M for 2011-12, 2016-17 and 2021-22. Overall, UT has improved more than SMU with a similar rise in stats but greater emphasis on those in need which tend to struggle more. SMU and A&M also have improved its stats at a similar rate but A&M has increased its class size much more than SMU while getting more suburban kids that would have gone to UT for engineering or business.

The recent move to include Pell Grant enrollment and success in US News rankings had a negative impact on private universities like SMU. This is a key focus going forward.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
SMU has significantly improved its four and six year graduation rates. The 2005 class had 60% four year and 75% six year graduation rates. The 2015 class was at 75% and 82%.

Test scores improved dramatically but far fewer enrollees used them. In 2011, the average SAT was 1275 and average ACT was 28.5. In 2021, it was 1420 and 32.5. Don't report SAT or ACT if you're below the bottom quarter of 1350 or 31 unless you have other hooks besides strong grades.

Speaking of grades, in 2011, 49% of first time in college (FTIC) freshmen were in the top 10% and 78% were top quarter. That held steady five years later and improved modestly in 2021 to 52% and 81%.

How about SMU's ability to attract economically diverse class? In 2011, 32.8% of FTIC freshmen received need based aid. In 2016, it took an odd drop to 26.5% but rebounded to 33.8% in 2021. This is a key area of focus especially now that US News changed its methodology to take Pell Grant support and success into account.

The University of Texas has boosted its graduation rates as much as SMU. Ten years ago, its six year rate was higher but its four year rate was lower. It went from 53% in four years and 81% in six years to 70% in four and 88% in six.

Academics. Test scores have improved a similar amount to SMU and they also had a significant drop in reported scores although not as steep a drop. SATs go from 1250 to 1275 to 1355 and percentage reporting dropped from 86% to 75% to 56%. With their top 6-10% get auto admission, they have a much higher percentage of top 10%. That went from 73% to 70% to 86%. Top quarter tightened and went from 91% to 96%. Even auto-admits in the top 6% are being denied admission to their preferred majors in engineering, CS and business. Maybe pre-med as well. National Merit Finalists are also being denied admission or their majors if they don't distinguish themselves outside the classroom. Leadership and demonstrated passion for one's major, in addition to diversity, help boost applications.

UT's percentage receiving aid went from 45% in 2011 to 31% in 2016 to 48% in 2021. It's about ten percentage points higher than SMU despite a much lower cost.

Texas A&M has lower stats than SMU and has improved at a similar rate over the last decade. However, it has both dramatically expanded its entering class size and enhanced pathways for transfer applicants. With its auto admission for the top 10%, it went from 6% more than SMU to 8% more in 2021 (i.e., 55% to 60%). With UT's target of 75% of the class admitted with its auto-admission, it doesn't appear that A&M will lower their percentage any time soon.

A&M's test scores are lower than SMU's (1265 and 28 average) and had less improvement but last year 68% of its students reported an SAT score and 32% reported an ACT score. Therefore, most of its auto admits are reporting scores.

A&M has fewer students receiving need based aid and is now just five percentage points ahead of SMU. They went from 44% receiving aid to 39%. Maybe this reduction is due to more of its class coming from wealthy, large metro suburbs.

All three institutions have increased their ethnic diversity over the last decade. SMU's Hispanic and Asian populations increased from 10% and 7% respectively in 2011 to 14% and 9% in 2021. UT went from 21% and 18% in 2011 to 29% and 26% in 2021. A&M went from 19% and 5.6% in 2011 to 25% and 13.3% in 2021.
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Re: SMU SATs

Postby Pony81 » Fri Dec 16, 2022 12:15 pm

Thank you Tristate for this thorough explanation.

If I might ask one more question…..why is SMU continuing to fall in the US News ranking? Changing measurement metrics that don’t favor our situation? It seems we keep improving student body quality, retention, and outcomes but continue to fall.

Thank you for your insight.
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Re: SMU SATs

Postby tristatecoog » Sat Dec 17, 2022 10:07 am

I found this seminal 2019 consulting report about why SMU has slipped and what they should do about it.
https://www.smu.edu/-/media/Site/Provos ... .pdf?la=en

Here's the conclusion:
The U.S. News rankings—and how they are calculated—are changing. While the introduction of the Social Mobility factors has been decidedly negative for SMU’s ranking, it also presents a perfect opportunity for SMU to pivot how it considers its place in the rankings. The focus on incoming student quality, particularly as measured by average test scores, has served SMU well in protecting it against fierce competition and the introduction of these other, generally negative, factors. However, as we have discussed, there is little room left to grow in the test score category. Instead, this is a real opportunity for SMU to nimbly move toward addressing new challenges—particularly those of graduation rate and social mobility. These factors can make a real, appreciable difference on SMU’s overall rank while simultaneously improving the student experience.

We are confident that with dedicated effort and patience SMU can achieve its goal of becoming a top-50 ranked university.

+++++++++++++++++
Pages 27-29 highlight the key causes of the recent drop, or lack of progress.
Pages 30-32 provide recommendations to improve.
1. Focus on graduation rate.
2. Increase quantity of low-income students and dedicate resources to their success
3. Improve freshman retention
4. Decrease reliance on test scores
5. Don’t stand still in inflating categories. SMU cannot afford to neglect test scores, graduation rates, expenditures for education, faculty compensation either, as inflation in them could dilute their overall benefit to SMU.
6. Be prepared for potential USNWR score calculation changes

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
For fun, below is a link of historical US News rankings from the early '80s to 2007 for 57 leading universities. SMU didn't make the list. https://publicuniversityhonors.com/2017 ... 1983-2007/
A key finding is the drop of flagship public universities. For example, from 1983-88 Michigan, Berkeley, Illinois, Wisconsin and Texas averaged a ranking of 14 and slipped to an average ranking of 34 in 2005-06. In 2022, those five had the same average ranking. UT and Michigan had improved while Madison, Illinois and Berkeley had slipped.

In 2009, SMU was ranked #67. It dropped to a low of 56 in 2012 and 2017 but has been rising since then to #72 this year. The closest ranking peer is Fordham U. Since 2009, it has averaged a ranking of 63.3. SMU has averaged 63.2. They have been tied in the rankings for seven of the past 15 years, including the last three.

Villanova, Santa Clara and LMU moved from regional US News rankings to national. In 2017, Villanova entered the national rankings ahead of SMU. Santa Clara U is ahead of SMU and Loyola Marymount is tied.

Which aspirant and peer universities have made the largest improvements or suffered the largest losses over the last 20+ years or since 2009 if not top 50 previously?
Aspirant: Northeastern, USC and Boston College are up. Brandeis, Emory, Tulane and Rochester are down.
Peer: TCU (#89) and American (#79) are up. Tulsa, GW, Lehigh and Syracuse are down.
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Re: SMU SATs

Postby deucetz » Tue Dec 20, 2022 9:27 am

Both graduation rates and social mobility, likely have to do with affordability. That's the reason SMU is more focused on scholarships. Most private schools are expensive, but they typically have generous financial aid packages that make them competitive or cheaper than public universities. This is important to middle class and lower income households.
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